Bobbity

Hello, everyone. As you know, in AA and CD points are given for healing done, damage taken etc. This, among other reasons, has given me the idea to have muses and clerics gain exp slightly differently from other classes. Not only that, but to play differently as well. This suggestion can be read in tandem with the summon mastery suggestion I posted earlier. BASE PREMISES My first premise is that Muses can gain combat exp from things other than killing mobs (directly or via party exp.) Muses/clerics can level through - performing acts of healing on themselves or others taking severe damage (including non-party members), as well as purging debuffs. There is a mechanic of diminishing returns to be applied here on heals and purges to the same target and 'severe damage' is to be quantified as a percentage of the target's max hp. Negligible damage values from jellybeans will not give exp and will follow similar exp formulas to avoid gaming the system passively. - praying (at a much-reduced exp rate than healing/purging/taking damage) (This concept will be explained in future.) - taking or redirecting damage (regarding redirecting damage, others have suggested similar or better proposals) My second base premise is that all Visitors and mobs are situated in a tier from 1 to 5 (corresponding to level ranges in the case of Visitors). Clerics cannot ascend in tier just by leveling. They have to perform a mission from their faith's NPC questgiver. The tier mechanic comes into play when purging debuffs or status resistance against Fear and Taunt status effects. Higher-tier units can ignore a Fear-type status effect, equal tier units suffer for a lesser duration than lower-tier units. A tier-2 cleric cannot purge a tier-3 DoT, for example. EDIT: Heals and purges are simplified as such: Tier 1 = single-target heals and purges (short cooldown) Tier 2 = multiple-target heals and purges nearby party (short to medium cooldown) Tier 3 = party heals in the same map (long cooldown) Tier 4 = global group and party heals in the same and adjacent map (long cooldown). Global heals and purges will affect party members and group members as long as they are on the same planet as the cleric. Tier 5 = unrestricted heal distance for party and group anywhere in the Seven Hearts (very long cooldown) aside from JC/TG and GA PvP. SKILLS: This suggestion aims to move us away from the buff meta, avoiding buff slavery and preventing crafting slavery. (Slavery is bad, you guys, what is even wrong with you?) Regarding buffs: There is one quasi-new concept to take note of here: mana reservation, alongside stacking status effects (not new but I had to mention it for the purposes of the discussion.) - Clerics have auras instead of buffs and can choose to increase either radius or effect depending on the passives in their skill tree. Auras increase in effect (potency) (stacking) based on active casting of other skills (e.g. heals, purges, nukes, debuffs, detection, taunts etc.) Thus, the more active the cleric is in combat, the quicker the stacks build up and the stronger the auras become. Every active aura reduces the total available mana pool by a medium to large percentage. -Clerics CAN still buff... at the cost of their lives! Path of Beauty - Passive. Whenever a cleric kills themself via Martyrdom or dies during their Avatar state, their party receives potent buffs to all combat stats for the duration of the cleric's death. Clerics lose their current level exp upon death (resetting to 0). The buff potency is based on the amount of exp lost. Martyrdom - Active. The cleric gains a dramatic bonus to combat stats and has their tier forcibly raised by 1 for a duration of time. The duration is refreshed upon taking damage. The cleric dies after this duration. Avatar - Active. Limit-breaker form of Martyrdom (likely an unlockable achievement Unique skill) for burst tank and DPS. The cleric becomes an avatar of their god and enjoys dramatic reduction in skill cooldowns as well as a dramatic bonus to combat stats for a duration of time. Their tier is raised to the maximum. Auto-attacks deal the current level of Voltage Jolt to the target. The cleric dies after this duration and cannot be revived through any skill other than Unique skills. Duration is refreshed on taking damage. (This should leave DPS-related passives like Cleric's Intensity still viable not as a fallback but as a regular part of cleric builds.) Clerics can also buff using the unlockable achievement Unique skill Blessing, which boosts all combat stats and attributes powerfully - once a day for the same target / once a day completely, haven't decided which is a better restriction. This skill also consumes the caster's current level exp and has its potency derived from the amount of exp consumed. PROS: Buffing is no longer the primary focus of clerics (or rather, not the perceived focus). Clerics also become important for other reasons. Once-a-day buffs should be enough for everyone if the duration is long enough. (Yes, the Avatar state reduces the cooldown on Blessing as well.) CONS: Can force a battlecleric meta. Numbers matter here. GO-TO / STANDARD SKILLS Standard skills aside from the heals, summons, buff/aura and Voltage nuke skills include: Preach - Active. Simply the cleric version of the soldier's Sacrifice. Boosts the cleric's mana regen by a large percentage based on the number of affected units. PROS: Standard version of what used to be a special skill for soldiers means this will be the cleric bread-and-butter party skill. Helps maintain mana shields in the thick of melee. CONS: Steps on soldier toes. (Soldiers should get an equivalent version of Sacrifice that works alongside Berserk but also offers bonus hp regen and/or armor.) Shrine - Active. The cleric builds (or summons if already constructed) a shrine to their god. Clerics can 'pray' at this shrine. Prayers allow clerics to heal/purge/revive allies at distances beyond the range of single-target skills (tier 3+). Necessary for mass Revival of an entire party or to summon a party to the cleric. PROS: Unique approach to team mobility and revival. CONS: Requires materials only gained through faction or Faith quests. Path of the Cleric - Active. AOE Fear. Disperses hostiles lower in tier than the caster in a large radius, forcing them to move away at increased ms and setting their aggro to 0 for the duration. Duration increased by CHA. Hostiles in the AOE unaffected by Fear are aggravated instead. Friendly units gain increased ms and hp regen. Monsters 3 tiers lower are Feared for a bonus 5 seconds and suffer a debuff to ms, as and ATK afterwards. Monsters of tier lower than this also suffer 3-4 blasts of Voltage Storm. PROS: Useful and unique. Does not step on any other class's toes due to the medium cooldown. CONS: Not useful in every dungeon, especially when rushing SC. Has variable use in SoD and PvP. Domain - Active, costs %mana per second. Within n meters, stealthed units are passively revealed. Enemies one tier lower are revealed at maximum distance. Enemies of equal tier are revealed at half-distance. Higher-tier enemies are revealed only upon active cast of the related ability, Authority. PROS: Offers a granular approach to detection instead of a binary click-click-click, revealing units no matter their level. CONS: Can force a rigid PvP meta and over-reliance on clerics. Holy Ground - Passive. The ground the cleric stands on is consecrated and nearby enemies suffer minor reductions to attack power and dramatic reductions to their passive bonuses (criticals, evasion, proc effects). They also take minor damage over time. Friendly units enjoy a minor healing factor (stacks with other healing over time effects.) Skill required to learn Domain.

We definitely can't go back to any type of class slaving or anything that could lead to botting. I'm going to keep refining the suggestion above with your input; I just feel like we can make a breakthrough if we stop looking at this the way we always have. EDIT: Is there anything in my suggestion that's obviously OP or that's too vague?

Right, so I've thought about this a bit. EDIT: This section has been moved into its own suggestion for the sake of clarity and format. It can be found here: Cleric NEW SKILL SET (partially) and slight role change - Suggestions - ROSE Online Forum (roseonlinegame.com)

Why so late with the first job change though?

If buffs (and even auras) are problematic, let's just do without them then. We'll have to radically change and differentiate class skill trees, though. Clerics, Scouts, Raiders and maybe even Dealers to some extent will have to have their skill trees revised for the new meta. Soldiers (except for maybe axe-champs) and Mages should be fine without buffs of any sort. I reckon raiders should be adjusted to specialize fully on 1v1 melee combat more than they already are, even/especially in PvE. There are ways to turn them into boss killers. That could make up for their lack of consistent farming ability. Scouts should already be okay without buffs, but their skills will need tweaking. Dealers will need their skills added to (or modified, depending on how many skill points will be available) to also make do without buffs and rely on their DPS and crafting solutions for everything. No buff pots but maybe debuff pots could work. Clerics should change into a very special class with unique active abilities. There have been a few suggestions in this vein on the forums, but nothing I can really sink my teeth into - either too OP and distant from the ROSE as we've known it or too weak and similar to what we've got so far. I'll try to come up with something as well and we can have a look at it.

People have mentioned upping base combat stats: ms, as, def, mdef, atk and perhaps even hp and mp regen. Others have suggested allowing buffs but letting mobs hit harder. We really did get used to the artificial copium of dual/multiclienting and have good memories of it as part of the nostalgia, didn't we? Is the solution to remove all buffs and replace them with a different mechanic? Or can we do something that accommodates BOTH the drug-like ecstasy of buffing random lowbies AND removes the need for buffs? We might as well transition from buffs to auras now. Auras on clerics (an even more passive playstyle than before!) or auras on summons (as has been stated a few times before), whatever works. Whatever we don't want as auras could be short-duration buffs/debuffs similar to the type of gameplay in faster non-MMO games. Maybe have the buff duration last longer the lower the level of the target is to the caster. Come to think of it, if we have auras based on summons (with infinite duration) this would make summoning a viable subtree. Imagine 'contracting' your summoned dragon off with someone's lowbie and the game allowing it to survive in maps away from you, the dragon passively providing MP and HP regen. If the dragon takes too much damage it teleports / flies back to you and won't provide buff effects to that lowbie again until some Favorability meter is refilled or something. Anyway, we have options here so we should spitball and brainstorm all of them.

In truth, there is PvP advantage to seeing both allies, enemies and unaligned hostile units on the mini-map (ref. the MOBA genre and related games) to varying degrees of granularity. However, I don't feel that our PvP has developed to this level of maturity as yet. This has clear value for PvE though, and I support the concept behind the suggestion. That all said, this isn't high priority for implementation and does take something from immersion. It would make sense to restrict this ability somehow. Maybe a clan skill? I'm not sure if this affects gameplay enough that having it as an IM skill would be p2w.

Why not both? Seeing players highlighted on the mini-map is wonderful for reasons beyond the tactical, but we should have options other than that. Rightly said, searching on the map is less invasive and more 'normal', more immersive.

*nods* yes, please.

There's way too much happening in that diagram for me to parse quickly. I'll be back!

Junon Polis could someday have a trade-related reason for being mostly water but right now it's as silly as you said. I'd be interested to see what an expanded city would look like.

We need to explore mech combat more. At the very least, we can have some MarioKart arenas or start using Dolphin Island more! I've thought of whether Dealers should really give up Sniping for some time now and I still can't make up my mind.

Okay, but clerics have Dragon Skin and offhand items, though (Sopdu, Horus etc.)

Early Access release isn't too far away. Just stick around and get comfortable for now.

Not ALL dungeons have to be open all the time. Not all dungeons have to be the same sort, either. There could be such a thing as a secret / temporary dungeon procedurally generated semi-spontaneously, depending on certain factors, server traffic among them. I reckon the dev team can think outside the box on this with our help.

lol, no offense intended. I thought I wasn't getting my point across that class restriction is the go-to and norm for stuff like this. Actually, things like codes and encryption could be a valuable revenue stream for artis: the higher your CON, the faster the decryption process. Is it concordant with ROSE's steampunk + medieval theme? Maybe, we haven't seen Karkia yet. So far, we only know a little bit. Pure CON newbie artisans coming up could make bank by focusing on encryption/decryption and alchemy. That's a very big divide from scouts, totally doesn't focus on combat potential at all.

The following descriptions apply for the basic concussion grenade and the lvl 200 arti hammer, respectively: Concussion Grenade Type: Magic Item Quality: 25 Job: Dealer Weight: 2 A grenade designed with explosives that will cause your target to be stunned momentarily. Attack Power: (625) Crafting Block Hammer Attack Power: 5 Accuracy: 6 Attack Speed: Slow -3 Attack Distance: 0M Durability: 10/ 10 Type: One-Hand Weapon [Concentration 260] [Job Class: Artisan] [Requires: Level 200] Weight: 25 A large hammer enchanted with powers of famous Artisans. The game does support class-restricted items, it just doesn't restrict often enough for us to remember that. A raider could buy as many of my turrets as he wants, it's free zulie as long as he doesn't know an artisan that can deploy those turrets. They might even have stats requirements, so he could be even worse off. I could even password-protect them! Anyway, back to the topic. The notion of skills scaling based on other skills does work in concept, I think. @Vaztuz You should consider posting that as a suggestion and see who else vibes with it. The devil's in the details, as usual. I feel like we're solid on the idea of some sort of sentry/surveillance function on Scouts, generally the go-to for PvP teams. To avoid a rigid PvP meta we should probably get something vaguely similar on another class (maybe some sort of bound spirit for clerics or the ability to ping/update the entire minimap at the cost of no mana or movespeed/ability to move for 30 seconds.) It definitely makes slightly more sense to give a PvP-oriented utility skill to scouts than turning artis into the jack of all trades at best, crafting slave of all at worst, slaving away crafting sentry wards. Allowable overlap between artis, clerics and scouts in this regard: artis have (relatively) freely deployable stationary sentry functions (but maybe needs a Dealer/Arti to deploy them? Makes it an issue of safety.) Sentries have stealth. scouts have 1 (up to 3?) relatively mobile sentries in the form of Hawks. Same surveillance range, more or less, but both scouts and hawks have stealth. clerics have an infrequent god's-eye view at the cost of mobility / ability to use magic, displaying all hostile units on the mini-map for t duration. All clerics will have an indicator blink for the duration of the God's Sight skill / the skill icon itself will light up / something else. A required passive for this skill could grant additional passive stealth detection within a varying range. A stand-off between clerics and assassins, providing unique value.

Not *ALL* consumable items are actually fully consumable, viz. the jet pack quest-consumable from the Orlean NPC Kreinto in Muris. Of course, that's a bit of silliness and we should probably have a separate window for stuff like that (probably not the PAT window). But tbh, the idea that money makes the world go round for artis (and dealers in general) sounds lovely. It's make-or-break. No arti could possibly farm that much by him/herself, either, so they tend to form part of clans or chambers of commerce, employ newbies for mats etc. The items don't need to be char-bound or locked; they could simply require an arti to deploy.

I think summons were mentioned a good few times before the forum came online. There might be a summon-specific discussion somewhere now, but I'd have to check. Anyway, yes, that discussion needs to be revived. At the very least it should create diversity in cleric builds.

Item weight's a good restriction, especially for heavy artillery. Of course, since all these are crafted items, whether consumable (like the monster capsules), pseudo-consumable (like the jet pack on Orlo) or equipment, we're working with mats being another natural restriction. Grenades should currently be Alchemy products if I'm not mistaken (Alchemy - Magic Item). That means they're currently independent of other skills. Having a nice scaling bonus to their yield and effect based on other skills would be interesting and pretty nice but the benefit of their current independence is we can craft different types of grenades for the same skill points. I feel like we'd have to pay dearly for such a bonus; maybe it'd end up like the weapons and armor crafting section of the skill tree with hard choices and payment in skill points. Well, I hope that doesn't happen, this idea needs exploring. (Unrelated: acid grenades really should drop DEF and/or deal a Damage over Time and/or slow ms.) Someone mentioned a few years back that Artis are basically Visitors with guns, and they need more in terms of protection and such. There were some suggestions of skills and craftable items for defence and damage mitigation. I don't know how far we want to go to blur the lines between artis and bourgs though. I'll think some more about this. Good stuff, you guys.

Can we think outside the box a bit and put the buff convo on the backburner? It doesn't look like we're getting anywhere with that anytime soon. What else can be done aside from casting/enhancing buffs and healing?

I've always wanted some sort of sentry ward craftable by artis but I now feel this is thematically more appropriate to Scouts. In fact, we could either overload or change the Hawk pet skill so it could be invisible in an area to give vision (most likely with a passive True Sight skill). At the same time, Dealer True Sight skills are lackluster. Bourgs have a roaming, unpredictable Eye. I can't recall whether artisans even have a skill for True Sight. Even if they do, it's likely at best on par with mages, clerics and such. That leaves them very vulnerable to being popped by a raider or scout. Sure, once you've established a defensive position you can place some mines, sentry turrets and such, but before then, what do?

Some of you might know I've suggested landmines for Dealers (proximity mines and remote-detonated mines) and that I'm not the first or only one to do so. You're likely also aware that Scouts had traps that worked decently in PvP. Once again, there's a conceptual overlap, except this time between something that used to exist and another thing that does not (except on one pserver out there; it's currently used as a Bourg level 200 PvP skill). How do we resolve this?

Remember the cockroach from the pirate quests? And the St. Paddy's Day leprechaun? Those are from event quests. We need random quests like that, Pokemon GO quests, basically, that incentivize player movement across the map.

It really is more the issue being the game's performance itself than the capability of $current_year hardware. The dev team's on the case, though. @Maestro do you see this pre-empting the Fate quest or would the quest be a finalization of your initial choice?