Bobbity

Right, so Vexoi's post about transferring refining levels gave me an idea based on a previous idea. Thanks @Vexoi! You can blame this Roserian for this entire post. Imagine if debuffs were persistent across spawns. Curses, as it were. Curses to lower your exp rate, reduce your attack power, spell power, move speed. Imagine being permanently cursed to have your max HP be 1! Imagine curses that lasted for days, weeks or even indefinitely! Curses that can't simply be purged by a friendly cleric. What we need for this is a place of power dedicated to healing, perhaps with healers working in metaconcert! A place of healing and tranquility. A sanitarium. This post proposes a constructable or purchasable building where clerics gain an ability to 'link' with others to remove persistent debuffs that either cannot otherwise be removed or require a higher amount of INT to dispel than any individual cleric has. This place is similar to clan and player housing as well as the faction buildings but with more beauty, tranquility and decorations. Just a better view. Not sure about pros and cons just yet. I'll add it later.

Hi, guys! I feel openworld PvP needs a little spicing up. The proposed item is craftable but costly. Triggering it spawns an unremarkable stone that affects all units in a very large area of effect. The stone prevents the activation of teleportation skills for the duration of the stone's lifetime, which diminishes by the second. No units can teleport into the area either. Affected enemy units lose a LOT more exp on death, perhaps even deleveling, if this is a possible mechanic, and are afterwards unable to use any form of teleportation or fast travel for a very long duration. The stone is unaffected by area damage but is targetable by magic and requires one damage-dealing hit to destroy. The stone has no effect in closed spaces outside the open world like AA or dungeons. PROS: Makes openworld PvP zones more dangerous Additional mechanic to consider on planets without safe zones CONS: Can lead to griefing Involves a problematic new mechanic requiring dev time

This sounds like a form of crafting that we should accommodate differently and more carefully. We're used to the process of 'insert items, press button, collect new item'. In the case of transferring substats or elemental affinities, it's just as quick. There's no waiting / manufacturing time, and time's a variable that we've deprecated in crafting - for obvious reasons; no-one expects an artisan to wait five hours real-time for armour to be reinforced, after all. Yet time is a useful variable to manipulate. Magic users tend to do burst damage or burst heal, that's their thing. We should consider slowing a few things down for dealers. I've suggested the use of a Forge or manufactory of some sort before. (It doesn't have to look like Monster Hunter but that'd be a great bonus.) Maybe we could have artisan goals be to buy property, set up a workshop with workbenches and specialized tools for doing things like transfer refining levels, repairing things properly, modifying substats and so on. Crafting that takes time would inevitably be better than juryrigged field crafting but also more costly. There's a lot that could be done there. Newbie crafters could also gain bonus exp from apprenticing in such a place. If the ability to transfer refining levels was common then such an economic impact could result. If uncommon or even rare we'd see interesting effects on the economy, perhaps even economic warfare. <snippety-snap for clarity> Thoughts?

Quite right, but that boils down to mostly +dps. Strong but not interesting. I don't want each class to have the powers of every other, but I'd like something a bit more interesting going on than that. It'd help justify the indecent thrill I get crafting boxes of ammo. (Now if only I could craft ammo straight from regular junk loot... )

Would you still choose infinite ammo if crafting ammo was relatively easy from common loot? Infinite ammo seems boring to me, sorry, but right now guns and launchers aren't quite competitive with spears, swords and katars. Maybe if we had guaranteed microstun on hit and more interesting mechanics that'd change. I don't see how making ammo infinite without reload process makes anything more fun.

The suggestion post from @TheShredr explored this more, of course. Rose Online is in an awkward position right now of being overly reliant on the nostalgia factor for its initial playerbase while trying to create a sustainable inflow of new players. I'll assume the devs will figure out some decent compromises after (or during?) EA so nostalgic players still feel like they're doing what they used to do and getting the same emotional gratification. The problem is the game needs a lot of work.

Over-powered, character-locked, drops on death. Players on the same map will have a constant indication of your location unaffected by stealth.

It does depend on the champ, tbh (sword champ might do okay, spear champ would do reliable aoe dmg before dying, axe champ will either succeed with one crit or flail around uselessly) but very good point. The idea of distributed buffs relies on the idea of a party and doesn't work in 1v1. Maybe this is how it should be; I know that I'd expect to pwn an axe champ if I were a raider. Somewhere on the forums I suggested some compromise between static buff play and more engaged active play using auras and other stuff. I wouldn't be surprised if the devs see the problem and are brainstorming a solution. After all, it's an obvious point of failure.

'free game no whining' lol Serious question: You've seen the suggestions made for cleric skills. Is it possible to accommodate the old way AND do something new? People really loved buffing newbies and nostalgia's a big draw for returning players, after all. What if we had both buffs and auras, not stacking with each other? Buffs meant for static play (buffing noobs) and auras meant for active party/dg play. We know that people regard clerics who just fire off buffs and stand there as leeches on exp (inaccurately so). They'd prefer another damage source for reliable speedy grinding. That's what people want, after all - more damage, more exp, sooner. What if we just gave clerics a damage source? As an example, let's say clerics had another type of 'flame'. Storm Cloud: A divine storm cloud that grants spell cd reduction and fires off Voltage Storm whenever allies cast spells in its AoE. 10-25% chance to fire Voltage Storm when cleric hits an enemy. 5-10% chance for non-clerics to proc a Voltage Storm on hit. Clerics also enjoy 5 more stacks on Cleric's Intensity within the area of effect. Could something like this work? 2 modes for play + a damage source? I've been thinking of changing CHA so it gives muses/clerics more exp from both leveling and questing, with party members enjoying the exp boost as well. It's just a bit static for me, though, so I added the storm cloud.

It's very Dealer-ish and a way for artis to get crafting sooner, as well as prospective bourgs to get selling and buying sooner. I'd really like CRAFTING to be a way for CRAFTERS to level besides the exp gained from the crafting itself. *wink wink Devs, where are the landmines and turret crafting skills?* With IM fake weapons this could be for aesthetics too. I have only one worry - if dealers could double or even triple their earlygame DPS just through crafting from loot, will they turn into asocial nerds?

@OwlchemistVile Please stop delivering ad hominem insults on the forums and other public spaces. This makes people revile you and reject your feedback. Considering your feedback is of high value, this is counterproductive. Accompanying your toxicity with useful material isn't sneaky, cunning or cool. It's disgusting and unwanted. You should think seriously about this. You often make ridiculous grammar mistakes and insult people, but I don't criticize you about that because it's off-topic and derails the conversation. I even have you set as ignored because of your conduct and had to manually display this post. PLEASE STOP INSULTING PEOPLE IN PUBLIC SPACES RELATED TO ROSE ONLINE. This is unwelcome behavior. There is a messaging function on Discord and here for a reason if you really need that toxic fix.

Honest comments you shall have. (I apologize for the length of this post.) I am an unusual case of a dual cleric/artisan main. For reasons, I didn't party on my artisan until reaching the higher levels and spent 2 years in the same map at level 50. In that same period of time, I played on my fs cleric and partied with clan members and randoms. I enjoyed the largesse of compassionate and charitable people who gave me max-stat gear. I paid that forward later after the Draconis/Leonis merger that caused my clan's death, buffing masses of random noobs at Kenji Beach back when the server population was high. I think one day I easily buffed 150 people; it's a memory I'll always come back to. Only after I achieved a good measure of personal toughness did I start working on my battlecleric, mage and speardancer. I made a knight purely for the looks. On my artisan I was socially averse and preferred to level alone and live off the land, but my cleric was literally named to party. And yes, I too enjoyed the high of buffing noobs into demigods. For these reasons, I feel I am qualified to speak on this matter. I was never a buff 'slave'. Cleric was never an alt for me. Even on the rare occasions where I was leveling two characters at the same time, my cleric was never an afterthought. That said, I always felt annoyed at my lackluster combat abilities and was pleased when abilities like Cleric's Intensity/Wand Weaving at least made me feel like I wasn't just a balloon hitting with a pool noodle and protected by a sponge. In the end, I realized that the problem lay in an overdeveloped focus on my healing subtree. The heals were numerous and, thanks to the updates, had become interesting and benefited from strategic use. But aside from this, all I had was some minor support for my auto-attack and mana shield, and the addition of an all-stat buff. My skillset was unremarkable. Uninspiring. And when we come back in about a week's time, my cleric's skillset will still be uninspiring and unremarkable. Boring. Mortal. I'm going to abuse all-caps here for emphasis and clarity: YOU DON'T NEED TO BE A MAGE TO WIELD THE POWER OF A GOD. Clerics are not shabby versions of mages. Clerics, in fact, should be unique and better than mages as they naturally wield divine power, yet their skillset doesn't reflect this. On this very forum suggestions have been made to spice up the cleric skillset so people will play clerics actively. Isn't that what this is all about? That some players are natural clerics and actively play their character, whereas others min-max by using the long duration of buffs and flames combined with multiboxing so they can focus on leveling their champ/mage/other? If you want people to main cleric, make clerics great. Give them skills that are literally unique to them, skills beyond the ken of iRose players, things they couldn't even have dreamt of. I don't mind releasing with the current skillset or the late NARose skillset AS LONG AS THE CLERIC REVAMP IS TAKEN SERIOUSLY. Make the skillset such that players, even if they're not of a clerical mindset, will naturally play actively on their cleric. Make it so parties naturally WANT to have clerics with them, that clerics become an exciting bonus. This buff conversation is a distraction from what is sorely lacking and has been for years. TL;DR - Clerics need a makeover and buffs are only part of the equation.

I do this for my drone in Hellgate - gun, sword, armor, the whole shebang. I feel that Rose Online definitely will benefit from this, not just the Dealer class. Will this make Dealers too strong early, though?

Sounds tricky, that, but not a bad idea. Anyway, regarding the turret, do you want it as a summon given to you by the game like hunters are right now? Or would you prefer building it yourself and then deploying it from your inventory (PAT window? Consumables? I dunno...) The last option could take longer if your loot sucks but should leave a way for customizability - you could get greater DPS and DEF if you designed and built it yourself, after all. And you could upgrade it later! I'm not a fan of lackluster boilerplate summons given by the system.

Once you start making new cosmetics for skill effects available, you'll have to discuss 'glance value'. And that will be annoying. But that's highly profitable. I'll keep thinking about this topic, though.

We've talked about utilizing the main char stat instead of INT or a so-called 'dump stat' like CHA. We've also discussed using auras, removing buffs entirely (this might need more discussion) and reducing buffs from long fire-and-forget duration to short duration just-in-time casting. We've also linked to discussions about the viability of and improving the skills of clerics (currently the likeliest suspects of buff slavery). Unless somebody else comes up with a nice mechanic, I reckon we've covered the OP's topic. I feel a mix of 2 of these ideas (maybe 3 if we leave auras to clerics and buffs to other classes) could be the way forward if implemented wisely.

Valid point. There have been some suggestions around improving the cleric skillset so it offers a LOT more value, not just buff 'n go or buff, heal, flame. What with buffs being an issue, we can't have people thinking clerics are worthless. If buffs were all clerics had to offer, we might as well remove clerics and all have buff pots a la PoE that refill from kills. Have a look around the forum and see what you think. You're right; not everyone had buff slaves - but consider. One of the distinguishing features of pservers is the low population of real active players vs the large number of registered characters. That, and a bare handful of people standing around motionless in ONE single map. There's almost no social interaction. That's because players don't rely on each other for anything. It's an MMORPG played as a single player. And that's what we're heading towards if we keep allowing the combo of buff slavery + multiboxing.

lol the question was if ppl would still make a cleric for buffs even though being a cleric doesn't make buffs better. Do they see clerics as the slave characters, in other words. I'm assuming that, since the buffs would be of the exact same strength as any given character class and they offer negligible in-game benefit, it wouldn't be considered p2w either. AFAIK the optimum would be to party with other classes instead of relying on your spare/alt account character for buffs. You'd still get people being antisocial, relying on their IM buffslave. Anyway, back to the topic. Like I said, buff slaves will be made and used BUT each buff slave will be exactly as worthy as any other character. There won't be a significant difference in skill build between these characters and anyone else's mains. They're as likely to be used for combat as anyone else's char. So, it doesn't so much fix buff slavery as it makes every character equal. You know what would fix buff slavery for real? a) If buffs were granted by the Goddess Herself directly through prayer. b) If there were no buffs. c)if buffs were replaced by auras. d) Something I haven't thought of. EDIT: OFF-TOPIC (AGAIN): The devs have thus far planned to release with the current framework of class buffs. Players right now don't see clerics as of any use except for buffs. If they can't buff, their party slot should be taken by another damage dealer instead (likely spear champ or mage). This sentiment implies that the current cleric skillset is uninspiring and needs looking at. I've seen similar sentiments expressed directly or indirectly about artisanal goods. I STRONGLY RECOMMEND THE TEAM TAKES ANOTHER LOOK AT SUPPORT CLASS SKILLSETS AND IMPLEMENTS CHANGES FOR POST-EARLY ACCESS RELEASE.

Decayed Hogwarts works for me, but with more love vs hatred themes. (Vampires?) Could have dg raids into the other planets, with the last (and optional) part of the raid almost impossible to complete. Successful completion opens the planet to everyone, opening up further questlines etc a la WoW. This could also make all mobs harder (and more rewarding) for everyone as Hebarn intensifies his Devil Pest schemes, among others. Hebarn itself would be the last planet, unlockable only if both Karkia and Skaaj have been unlocked, if the number of Arua followers reach equilibrium with Hebarnites across the Sea of Souls and maybe some other triggers. Valentine's Event could make special dg's available with a greater opportunity to unlock Skaaj, for example. Not sure about other events matching up to Karkia, though.

Off-topic: @fercho70Please, my dude. Please use punctuation. Just as a favour to me. You made my headache worse, somehow. The forum needs you to be clear so we can read and respond to your meaningful feedback. On-topic: The suggestion does remove useless buff slaves and I support it. Players will still make alt characters of different classes on their other account due to habit and use them initially as buff slaves. However, these slave characters will not suffer any handicap in terms of becoming a normal character of its class. We will EVENTUALLY have real players that spend time, effort and zulie to build up their main characters. These characters are, solely by virtue of having maxed their main class stat, able to offer strong buffs. They won't differ dramatically from other player characters that use a more varied stat mix. What are the knock-on consequences of that, though? (This raises a follow-up question in my mind: given a scenario based on the OP's suggestion but where full buffs are offered as IM skills for ALL CLASSES to learn, a) would people still try to make a cleric buffer by habit? b) would it be p2w? Logically, if there is no single 'buffer' class/class that exists only to buff and class buffs are always better than buff pots, there wouldn't as a matter of course be a cleric that pays money just to be a pure buffer... would there? After all, there's opportunity cost for those scarce skill points, IM costs real money and we only have 2 game client windows available. No-one would turn themselves into a buffslave on purpose if their buffs would be weaker than a full party. Or am I wrong?)

One thing that's nice from my last post was that these items and potions are generally made of (relatively) cheap NPC items. That aside, we definitely have to align what crafting could be possible for soldiers, muses and hawkers with what's doable within the artisan class; the main crafting class can't be stood up. We've recognized that non-artisan crafting is interesting and adds a bit of change in one's pocket, but we haven't made a case for its necessity. Do we actually *need* other classes crafting? And is it a good thing for the game overall?

*hugs a nice iMokie*

Alright, so I've already talked about modifying the party loot mechanics. I also said I'd come up with something for soldiers, and I've done more than that. Let's talk about soldiers first, though. Golden Oxblood Potion - gives +STR, +AP, +DEF for t seconds (much shorter than the current max duration for any of the corresponding buffs from the Soldier skill tree). Requires: - HP bottle (2) - Empty Beaker (1) -Distilled Water (2) -having learned the skills from the Soldier tree that gives those buffs. Effects diminish if used repeatedly within 10 minutes of previous use. Does not stack. Smelly Beastlure - will continuously attract the attention of all hostile monsters within 70 meters for t seconds or until the lure is destroyed (lure has HP but player aggro supercedes its aggro value). Requires: - MP bottle (1) - Empty Beaker (1) - Distilled Water (2) - Milk (1) - Orange (1) -having learned the Taunt skill from the Soldier tree. Then we have muses: Seer's Dust - +SEN, reduces critical damage taken, stealth detection (reveals enemies within r radius of the user. If the user is a muse, also slows affected stealthed units by 13%) for t seconds. Requires: - MP bottle (2) - Empty Beaker (1) -Distilled Water (2) -having learned the stealth detection skill from the Muse tree. Slow effect diminishes if reapplied within 10 minutes of previous use. Can overlap (refreshes duration when reapplied.) and hawkers: Aelous's Breath - +ms, +as, +dodge, purges self of 1 random debuff. Creates a smoke animation around the caster for t seconds and 0.5 sec mini-stun to nearby hostile units. Requires: - Lunaris Bear's Liquor Bottle (1) - Gunpowder Packet (3) - Empty Beaker (1) Cannot be stacked or overlapped. EDIT: I've thought a lot about poison alchemy for hawkers for a long time, but I can't seem to form a solid suggestion that'd work for us. I welcome suggestions in that regard.

Could have the hawkers train pets; it's within their ambit. In fact, having so many profession skills available to them is a nice way to force specialization without actually forcing it. There's some value in what Critpeak's been saying, though. We shouldn't move too far from our current understanding of the classes - at least, not yet. Soldiers don't *need* a moneymaking skill, tbh; they're the core of every party and loot mechanics could be adjusted to account for that. Thus, mages and champs would get more zulie per kill than, say knights, and knights would get more than whoever the lurer is (probably a useless katar.) Hawkers should thus be prioritized for non-combat profession skills, followed by clerics if loot mechanics don't account for healing done or if the cleric prefers to solo main. That said, I'm thinking of something better for ronin soldiers to do that'll fit them in terms of crafting. It'll have to be something the market wants/would want, of course.

To catch a hawker, use a mage... or landmines from a dealer...