Mana shield needs a major nerf

[prettywomanlover]

This skill is absolutely ridiculous in pvp, haven’t had as much experience with it in pve as I’m not a mage but I’ve pvped vs them, it takes multiple people to destroy a mages mana shield, and when it is destroyed they can just pop it again as if nothing happened. Mages can no joke tank better than knights and do 3x their damage it is very unfair. Most of the time, I can’t even destroy a mages mana shield before he kills me.. Please nerf this skill do something, maybe give it a 5 minute cooldown from when you used it last idk but it needs to change it’s really OP! Thanks

[DoubleRose]

I don't know how strong it is in pvp, but it seems balanced in pvm. If it does need a nerf, hopefully the change could just affect pvp

[Vile]

You need to actually use crowd control and utility in pvp.
You can stun them during the cast, silence them, dispel it ,sleep them, or focus them. You think a Mage's Barrier is bad, Try focusing down a Cleric fully tanked out and spamming self heals. Or 1v1 a Katar in full dodge.

Games not even out and people are already expecting to left click someone and win.

[Avatar]

30 minutes ago, DoubleRose said:

I don't know how strong it is in pvp, but it seems balanced in pvm. If it does need a nerf, hopefully the change could just affect pvp

I’m in agreement here with DoubleRose.

During PvM, any mage I party with will instantly die, even with mana shield, unless I were to use sacrifice and get the mobs off of them when they skill. 

I hope they can like make the current mana shield a PvE skill only and add a second skill that’s PvP only with a higher duration (if they’ll even consider it in the first place). For PvM, I’d argue and say it needs a boost. So I hope it’s not nerfed for the Mages sake. 

[Vile]

I will say this. Mana Shield was created to fix a problem. A problem that will come back if you nerf it / remove it. This is my "warning" on the matter.

[prettywomanlover]

37 minutes ago, OwlchemistVile said:

I will say this. Mana Shield was created to fix a problem. A problem that will come back if you nerf it / remove it. This is my "warning" on the matter.

You mean the “problem” of mages being squishy? That is not a problem, it is how the class was designed, they are meant to be glass cannons, extremely strong but squishy. Every class has their weaknesses and strengths, that is what makes the class unique and balanced.

Edited January 14, 2023 by prettywomanlover

[prettywomanlover]

1 hour ago, Avatar said:

I’m in agreement here with DoubleRose.

During PvM, any mage I party with will instantly die, even with mana shield, unless I were to use sacrifice and get the mobs off of them when they skill. 

I hope they can like make the current mana shield a PvE skill only and add a second skill that’s PvP only with a higher duration (if they’ll even consider it in the first place). For PvM, I’d argue and say it needs a boost. So I hope it’s not nerfed for the Mages sake. 

Like I said, I have not experimented with this ability in PVM, I am not even a mage. I only know this from pvp, it takes multiple people to simply break the mages mana shields, and they can just pop it again and have close to 100% uptime It’s very unfair and over powered in pvp. I do not know how it is in PVE

Edited January 14, 2023 by prettywomanlover

[Vile]

15 minutes ago, prettywomanlover said:

You mean the “problem” of mages being squishy? That is just the play style/ consequences of being a mage, they are meant to be glass cannons. Not tank cannons. Every class has their weaknesses and strengths, that is what makes the class unique and balanced.

You don't GET a strong shield while keeping both good damage and good utility, you simply do NOT have enough SP for it.
The problem I was referring to? Is Mages can be killed 100% hp to 0% hp in a single critical skill hit. That aint squishy, that's gimped and dead. It's also written in the history of ROSE as fact, it happened. It's the EXACT reason mana shield was made. You have to use it when you're about to be under pressure, you have to actively use your brain in order to maintain it, and get a little bit of damage out, without going OOM. Mages aren't tank cannons anymore than this suggestion is from a place of rational and experience.

If it's so easy to survive on a mage with Mana shield as a crutch, why don't you go do it. For the record, I'm being this aggressively defensive about it because Manashield is the only way a Mage can participate in dungeons due to massive AoE's and DoT's that would destroy a mage without it. The last thing I'll be quiet about, is a nerf request for pvp that ruins a class for pvm. I won't be quiet about it. Learn to use a stun or mute to beat a mage, or focus it down. You'd do the same for a Raider. Stop treating Mage [and for that matter artisan/bourg] as if they're supposed to be your free kills. Toxic mentality.

Edited January 14, 2023 by OwlchemistVile

[KwangDynasty]

MAGES SHOULDNT BE TANKING 5 PLAYERS AT THE TIME. AND PLEASE REMOVE THE GROUP OR PARTY PVP. LET IT QUE UP INDIVIDUAL. ITS SO UNFAIR FIGHTING AGAINST WHOLE PARTY OR CLAN WHEN YOU JUST QUE UP YOURSELF AND YOU GOT TEAM UP WITH RANDOM PLAYERS. AND OF COURSE THEY ALL GROUP UP WITH MAGES LOL. AND MAKE ATTACKERS REWARDING. LIKE IF YOU ATTACKING YOU DONT HAVE A CHANCE GETTING 100-200 HONOR POINTS UNLESS YOU ALREADY GEARED UP. AND NERF CRYSTAL ON DEFENDING SIDE. LIKE I CAN QUE UP ON DEFENDING AND STILL GET 200 POINTS ATLEAST WHILE I JUST AFK CUZ YOU KNOW WHY? ATTACKERS COULDNT OR WOULDNT BE ABLE TO PUT THAT CRYSTAL DOWN YOU KNOW WHY? CRYSTAL HAS 5M HEALTH WHEN ATTACKER SIDE ONLY HAVE 3-4 PLAYERS LOL. DEV GARNET YOU PLAYED THE GAME STILL COULDNT FIGURED OUT WHATS WRONG YOU SHOULD BE ASHAMED OF YOURSELF!

[Avatar]

2 minutes ago, KwangDynasty said:

MAGES SHOULDNT BE TANKING 5 PLAYERS AT THE TIME. AND PLEASE REMOVE THE GROUP OR PARTY PVP. LET IT QUE UP INDIVIDUAL. ITS SO UNFAIR FIGHTING AGAINST WHOLE PARTY OR CLAN WHEN YOU JUST QUE UP YOURSELF AND YOU GOT TEAM UP WITH RANDOM PLAYERS. AND OF COURSE THEY ALL GROUP UP WITH MAGES LOL. AND MAKE ATTACKERS REWARDING. LIKE IF YOU ATTACKING YOU DONT HAVE A CHANCE GETTING 100-200 HONOR POINTS UNLESS YOU ALREADY GEARED UP. AND NERF CRYSTAL ON DEFENDING SIDE. LIKE I CAN QUE UP ON DEFENDING AND STILL GET 200 POINTS ATLEAST WHILE I JUST AFK CUZ YOU KNOW WHY? ATTACKERS COULDNT OR WOULDNT BE ABLE TO PUT THAT CRYSTAL DOWN YOU KNOW WHY? CRYSTAL HAS 5M HEALTH WHEN ATTACKER SIDE ONLY HAVE 3-4 PLAYERS LOL. DEV GARNET YOU PLAYED THE GAME STILL COULDNT FIGURED OUT WHATS WRONG YOU SHOULD BE ASHAMED OF YOURSELF!

Topic merged due to similarity. 

[KwangDynasty]

2 hours ago, OwlchemistVile said:

You need to actually use crowd control and utility in pvp.
You can stun them during the cast, silence them, dispel it ,sleep them, or focus them. You think a Mage's Barrier is bad, Try focusing down a Cleric fully tanked out and spamming self heals. Or 1v1 a Katar in full dodge.

Games not even out and people are already expecting to left click someone and win.

I would say not a major nerf that nerf it to makes it valuable still but not nerf it to the ground. like mages shouldnt be tanking 5 players

[prettywomanlover]

26 minutes ago, OwlchemistVile said:

You don't GET a strong shield while keeping both good damage and good utility, you simply do NOT have enough SP for it.
The problem I was referring to? Is Mages can be killed 100% hp to 0% hp in a single critical skill hit. That aint squishy, that's gimped and dead. It's also written in the history of ROSE as fact, it happened. It's the EXACT reason mana shield was made. You have to use it when you're about to be under pressure, you have to actively use your brain in order to maintain it, and get a little bit of damage out, without going OOM. Mages aren't tank cannons anymore than this suggestion is from a place of rational and experience.

If it's so easy to survive on a mage with Mana shield as a crutch, why don't you go do it. For the record, I'm being this aggressively defensive about it because Manashield is the only way a Mage can participate in dungeons due to massive AoE's and DoT's that would destroy a mage without it. The last thing I'll be quiet about, is a nerf request for pvp that ruins a class for pvm. I won't be quiet about it. Learn to use a stun or mute to beat a mage, or focus it down. You'd do the same for a Raider. Stop treating Mage [and for that matter artisan/bourg] as if they're supposed to be your free kills. Toxic mentality.

I have not played mage this on this iteration of Rose online, but I have a hard time believing you're sacrificing not getting a ton of power skills to get this ability, It costs 5 skill points to max out It's hard for me to believe you would be significantly stronger if you hadn't spent those 5 skill points. (And that's assuming your maxing it out) I am not saying at all that mages are supposed to be a "free kill" or easy class to kill, even without mana shield, they are absolutely not easy. I played Rose NA for a long time, I remember them performing very well and still being extremely overpowered infact without mana shield. With that being said, I do not have the mentality mages are weak and supposed to be an easy class to kill by any means. Mages were designed to be squishy, and extremely strong like i said, each class has their strengths and weaknesses, one class should not have everything. And they could definitely balance this skill in PVM without affecting pvp, like i said i am unsure of how this skill performs in PVM, My perspective is only toward PVP.  And I am not saying they should remove it, just balance the skill it is ridiculously over powered and mages can literally out tank knights with it, and keep re-applying it every time it breaks.. And no, it does not add much strategy to the class, and require you to use your brain very much as you mentioned, You simply have to press the button every take it, breaks, and make sure you have enough mana and you're invincible. Infact I think it takes away a lot from the class and makes them way easier than intended, and makes you use your brain even less.

Edited January 14, 2023 by prettywomanlover

[KwangDynasty]

1 minute ago, prettywomanlover said:

I have not played mage this on this iteration of Rose online, but I have a hard time believing you're sacrificing not getting a ton of power skills to get this ability, It costs 5 skill points to max out It's hard for me to believe you would be significantly stronger if you hadn't spent those 5 skill points. (And that's assuming your maxing it out) I am not saying at all that mages are supposed to be a "free kill" or easy class to kill, even without mana shield, they are absolutely not easy. I played Rose NA for a long time, I remember them performing very well and still being extremely overpowered infact without mana shield. With that being said, I do not have the mentality mages are weak and supposed to be an easy class to kill by any means. Mages were designed to be squishy, and extremely strong like i said, each class has their strengths and weaknesses, one class should not have everything. And they could definitely balance this skill in PVM without affecting pvp, like i said i am unsure of how this skill performs in PVM, My perspective is only toward PVP.  

TOTALLY AGREE WITH THIS, MAGES SHOULD STILL BE A QUITE OP WITHOUT MANA SHIELD.

[Vile]

1 hour ago, prettywomanlover said:

I have not played mage this on this iteration of Rose online, but I have a hard time believing you're sacrificing not getting a ton of power skills to get this ability, It costs 5 skill points to max out It's hard for me to believe you would be significantly stronger if you hadn't spent those 5 skill points. (And that's assuming your maxing it out) I am not saying at all that mages are supposed to be a "free kill" or easy class to kill, even without mana shield, they are absolutely not easy. I played Rose NA for a long time, I remember them performing very well and still being extremely overpowered infact without mana shield. With that being said, I do not have the mentality mages are weak and supposed to be an easy class to kill by any means. Mages were designed to be squishy, and extremely strong like i said, each class has their strengths and weaknesses, one class should not have everything. And they could definitely balance this skill in PVM without affecting pvp, like i said i am unsure of how this skill performs in PVM, My perspective is only toward PVP.  And I am not saying they should remove it, just balance the skill it is ridiculously over powered and mages can literally out tank knights with it, and keep re-applying it every time it breaks.. And no, it does not add much strategy to the class, and require you to use your brain very much as you mentioned, You simply have to press the button every take it, breaks, and make sure you have enough mana and you're invincible. Infact I think it takes away a lot from the class and makes them way easier than intended, and makes you use your brain even less.

Wrong. It takes approximately 70 SP for a max-potency shield. 10 SP, 5 for mana barrier, 5 for reinforced mana barrier. 10 SP from common max mana passive. 20 SP for max mana and consumption in offense tree. 30 sp in Mage tree for 2 max mp passives and 1 consumption passive.

The fact you think they're getting it for 5 SP, immediately shows you don't understand what is being invested to get max potency barriers. I don't even have to read beyond that to know what type of player I am dealing with. You had a bad experience, and are going to make up as many mental scenarios as you can to justify you being upset when the answer is simply you don't know enough YET to understand how to beat a Mage. And yet you still think it's justified that they're nerfed, instead of you figuring it out.The answer is to keep playing, and figure out how your kit can be used to counter a Mage. Everyone can, just figure it out before requesting something you don't like or understand be nerfed to make your life easier.

Edited January 14, 2023 by OwlchemistVile

[Heatfist]

3 hours ago, OwlchemistVile said:

You need to actually use crowd control and utility in pvp.
You can stun them during the cast, silence them, dispel it ,sleep them, or focus them. You think a Mage's Barrier is bad, Try focusing down a Cleric fully tanked out and spamming self heals. Or 1v1 a Katar in full dodge.

Games not even out and people are already expecting to left click someone and win.

What skill can dispel the mana shield? I have tested Shield Jab with Knight (removes a buff) against a Mage and it dispelled all but the Mana Shield.
The general MP drain skill from PvP vendor also doesn’t drain enough mana to make it viable to use with how fast MP can regenerate. 
It should be on a 45 second cool down just like the Knight Reflect and Guard skills since it plays a similar role of preventing incoming damage. 
 

 

[Vile]

2 minutes ago, Heatfist said:

What skill can dispel the mana shield? I have tested Shield Jab with Knight (removes a buff) against a Mage and it dispelled all but the Mana Shield.
The general MP drain skill from PvP vendor also doesn’t drain enough mana to make it viable to use with how fast MP can regenerate. 
It should be on a 45 second cool down just like the Knight Reflect and Guard skills since it plays a similar role of preventing incoming damage.

Shield Jab works, it prioritizes damage and defensive buffs over shields.
Fierce Cudgeling also works.
Anti-magic shell also works.

And like I said, you can also Stun them, Silence them, sleep them ,focus them, ignore them.
I'm not going to give literally every solution to it but I can say Clerics, Knights, and Bow Scouts are very good at punishing mages. Figure it out.

[Heatfist]

2 minutes ago, OwlchemistVile said:

Shield Jab works, it prioritizes damage and defensive buffs over shields.
Fierce Cudgeling also works.
Anti-magic shell also works.

And like I said, you can also Stun them, Silence them, sleep them ,focus them, ignore them.
I'm not going to give literally every solution to it but I can say Clerics, Knights, and Bow Scouts are very good at punishing mages. Figure it out.

Thanks

I’m not expecting all answers here. Just wanted to know because I was 1v1 against a mage to test Shield Jab out. When they only had Mana Shield up I asked if my Shield Jab dispelled it and they said that it didn’t. I also noticed it was still up after the second Shield Jab too. Something is off there.
I’ve only noticed Candle Ghosts being able to dispel it completely with their ghost voodoo magic.

Yeah I agree that Mages can be punished by other Jobs and vice versa but my point was that all shield/defensive type skills should have the same cooldown times. 

[Vile]

Is your shield jab maxed out? If I recall correctly, it's not a 100% until max rank.

IF, you tested it, they had no other buffs, and it's 100% dispel rate: and the result is it's not working? Then Rednim needs to fix it. I am not beneath making sure that the counters exist as they did and were intended to do. I DO NOT however want it nerfed to below what it was on NA cause I've seen maximum builds and efficiencies, and Mana Barrier s not the end-all be-all people want to think it is right now.

Edited January 14, 2023 by OwlchemistVile

[Heatfist]

Yea I have maxed Jab since it’s required for the Shield Slam and Stun as well as the other Knight shield related slams and throws.

I’d be willing to test it out again. If you have a mage we can test jab vs mana shield on a PvP map and see if it’s working as intended or not to report to devs.

[Lulullaby]

I've been playing a lot of PvP and honestly it's fine. I say this as someone who only plays Champion.

All you have to do is stun or mute just before the Mana Shield is breaks or just after they've used Mana shield and already taken some damage. Then they will die within 2 seconds.

[Heatfist]

A cooldown would hurt the PvM players. So after reading through a bunch of complaints and whatnot and checking skills in various classes, I've come up with the idea to instead of nerfing Mana Shield give each class a "Shield Jab" like skill that removes 1 debuff off target instead. Have them all 100% (instead of 80% like Shield Jab currently) and up the cool down to 10 seconds from 6 seconds. So instead of nerfing, give everyone a fair counter instead. Each class already has a detect stealth skill for cloaking shenanigans so why not have a debuff too. This wouldn't harm PvM and would make PvP killing faster too.

Edited January 15, 2023 by Heatfist

[DoubleRose]

Could buff some offensive skills to deal bonus damage to shields, preferably on classes that aren't seen as often. Axe champ and dual raider come to mind.

[Sjoerd]

Just looking at PvM: nerf would make Mage unplayable.

[Rootstock]

Dunno about PvP, but PvM it definitely can’t be nerfed. An essential part of being a battle cleric. And in PvM it has a fair cost too, a third of your MP.

Edited January 15, 2023 by Rootstock

[Flagrant]

On 1/13/2023 at 7:56 PM, OwlchemistVile said:

You need to actually use crowd control and utility in pvp.
You can stun them during the cast, silence them, dispel it ,sleep them, or focus them. You think a Mage's Barrier is bad, Try focusing down a Cleric fully tanked out and spamming self heals. Or 1v1 a Katar in full dodge.

Games not even out and people are already expecting to left click someone and win.

explain how to do this when you get stunned the second youre in range and 2-3 shot? 3-4 people shouldn't be required to kill 1 mage because they have 55k hp with manashield.

you play a mage tho, so I understand the bias lol