Mana shield needs a major nerf

[Bobbity]

2 hours ago, BaconEggAndDeez said:

Then bourg can just touch grass and die instantly ? Mages, in any game in the world aren't tanky. This manashield should be used wisely and in emergency, just put it 40s CD, same as bourg rigging and such.

If possible, can we avoid the easiest solution (40 sec cd) and be more creative? If there really isn't a better option, sure, go ahead. Remember, there's a massive SP investment required to have a decent mana shield. Having it be just a panic button on the same level as Jury Rigging etc. is a pretty bad return on investment. We'd just force another meta where mages skip mana shield and focus on cast range and skill power. We need Fortified Mana Shield (or its successor) to be feasible so skill builds can be diverse so the game will survive.

[VenomX]

2 hours ago, GodOfEntity said:

Bourg dmg is supposed to come with a trade off. They're supposed to be glass cannons. 

I don’t think you’ve ever played a Bourg to understand.  Or at least not enough of it.  They get shredded by every other battle class.  They have no defensive skills (they have one but it needs a major buff).  No defensive passive.  Very low dodge.  Low to mid hp.  No shield abilities.  No escape abilities.  
You keep mentioning that they are suppose to be glass cannons.  Well, so are Mages, but Mages have an op shield.  Because of that, they’re literally better than bourgs in all departments.  
 

If they want to balance the game, the devs should give bourgs a buff, or nerf Mana Shield.  
 

I also witnessed a Mage 3v1 two Raiders and a Bourg yesterday in crystal arena, and killed them all.  It was ridiculous.

Edited March 17, 2023 by VenomX

[Bobbity]

I vaguely recalled this defensive suggestion for dealers, I had to look it up for the details though:

Nano-composite Shield [Artisan] - Proposals & Suggestions - WarpPortal Community Forums

 

Mechanically, this or something similar could be implemented right now, from what I've heard. I'm not sure who gets to use the craftable item; it might be artisan-only or dealer-only. I feel it's still a Band-aid though. Mages have been and still are critical to endgame PvP. As such, these discussions can't be perfectly siloed from each other. I recommend discussing these topics together, actually. There's currently a forced PVP meta of mages + clerics + taunt + cannon fodder vs mages + clerics + taunt + cannon fodder. Anyone who's out of position is off looking for a solo pickoff of someone else who's out of position. It's boring and it's bad and it's causing ridiculous things like the current mage situation.

 

 

[GodOfEntity]

3 hours ago, VenomX said:

I don’t think you’ve ever played a Bourg to understand.

 Which other chars have you made to level 240+ that gives you this in depth understanding that I personally couldn't possibly have?  

I have, 249 Champion, 249+ Cleric, 240 + Knight, 239 Artisan. --- I will be working on a Bourg/Mage next. 
(However, in naRose, Bourg was my main) 

4 hours ago, BaconEggAndDeez said:

But not mages ? kek

Do you have a mage? 

Edited March 17, 2023 by GodOfEntity

[BaconEggAndDeez]

1 hour ago, GodOfEntity said:

Do you have a mage? 

What's your point?

[GodOfEntity]

9 minutes ago, BaconEggAndDeez said:

What's your point?

I guess my point is, that one of the arguments from the other side is a resounding, this is the best job class in the game, it makes all other job classes unplayable. -- If that is a true statement, why doesn't what people are playing, reflect that? Personally I'd much rather two bourgs a champ, a knight, and a cleric, in a DG than a mage. 

Edited March 17, 2023 by GodOfEntity

[Bobbity]

Your argument is easy to counter: only a fraction of players play for PvP and only a fraction of PvPers like pretending they're Gandalf. They prefer shooting arrows like Legolas, melee range attack or stealth, something other than whatever it is mages are now. They have personal preference, much like you. But I get what you're saying (for once). For rational min-maxers trying to get the most Honor for their GA energy and time, surely mages would be the go-to class? The truth is, post-session leaderboards show a preponderance of mages, and most of those mages have high kill counts and scores for 'Damage Absorbed' - and are rewarded for them. While PvP is at the level it is and mages aren't being quickly assassinated, the game is stultified and dead-ass slow.

 

We don't need radical changes. Give katars a more streamlined means to take out mages, give mages a better true sight ability and a more interesting shield/damage mitigation skill, adjust the gameplay for CD and possibly also AA a bit so it's faster. It's just two steps above fighting in TG/JC right now.

[GodOfEntity]

6 minutes ago, Bobbity said:

Your argument is easy to counter: only a fraction of players play for PvP and only a fraction of PvPers like pretending they're Gandalf. They prefer shooting arrows like Legolas, melee range attack or stealth, something other than whatever it is mages are now. They have personal preference, much like you. But I get what you're saying (for once). For rational min-maxers trying to get the most Honor for their GA energy and time, surely mages would be the go-to class? The truth is, post-session leaderboards show a preponderance of mages, and most of those mages have high kill counts and scores for 'Damage Absorbed' - and are rewarded for them. While PvP is at the level it is and mages aren't being quickly assassinated, the game is stultified and dead-ass slow.

 

We don't need radical changes. Give katars a more streamlined means to take out mages, give mages a better true sight ability and a more interesting shield/damage mitigation skill, adjust the gameplay for CD and possibly also AA a bit so it's faster. It's just two steps above fighting in TG/JC right now.

Truth be told. I haven't spent enough time with all the different classes to have a really valid argument for any of this. So, ima just be out of this conversation until like, 2 or 3 months from now. 

But generally speaking, I feel like people tend to say "Oh this is broken" - without taking a harder and closer look at things. 

Mages were once completely useless, now that they have viability, people seem to complain and want it destroyed.  I'm not saying that peoples statements don't have complete validity to it, I guess my other point is. If I feel like I haven't played the game enough to form a better opinion on this; Have others played the game enough? 

Edited March 17, 2023 by GodOfEntity

[Bobbity]

I've suggested a few things in this thread with little to no feedback on those proposals. I'll suggest once more but this time I won't expect anything from you lot; I feel like you're just here to see your text in a public space. There's not much actual discussion going on.

 

1. Leave Mana Shield, the common skill as it is.
2. Adjust Fortified Mana Shield so it's a very short cd (15/11/7/3.5 sec cd) skill that still has the same damage absorption capacity and mana consumption as it currently does but its duration is only 1.2 sec. In other words, Fortified Mana Shield is an additional layer of just-in-time shielding cast on demand. 
3. Leave room for mages to add an additional effect to their Fortified Mana Shield; one out of a long list of possible options such that attackers won't know ahead of time unless the mage comfortably spams this effect instead of using it as a trump card. (It doesn't need to be something as hardcore as Path of Exile CWDT combos etc. but mages aren't left-clicking battleclerics; they must have something interesting up their sleeves, something they can spend time working on to perfect.)
4. EDIT: Use the shortest, simplest cast animation possible. No jumping in the air. Refer to the video linked in the suggestion: 

 

Edited March 19, 2023 by Bobbity
Typo, left out some words again.

[joshei02]

10 hours ago, Bobbity said:

Your argument is easy to counter: only a fraction of players play for PvP and only a fraction of PvPers like pretending they're Gandalf. They prefer shooting arrows like Legolas, melee range attack or stealth, something other than whatever it is mages are now. They have personal preference, much like you. But I get what you're saying (for once). For rational min-maxers trying to get the most Honor for their GA energy and time, surely mages would be the go-to class? The truth is, post-session leaderboards show a preponderance of mages, and most of those mages have high kill counts and scores for 'Damage Absorbed' - and are rewarded for them. While PvP is at the level it is and mages aren't being quickly assassinated, the game is stultified and dead-ass slow.

 

We don't need radical changes. Give katars a more streamlined means to take out mages, give mages a better true sight ability and a more interesting shield/damage mitigation skill, adjust the gameplay for CD and possibly also AA a bit so it's faster. It's just two steps above fighting in TG/JC right now.

change critical accordance to deal 20% maximum shield damage per auto and 35% per skill . and give scouts a similar passive to take out 10-15% since they're range. Rock paper scissors says HAWKER takes out MUSE takes out SOLDIER takes out DEALER takes out HAWKER. BUT it went MAGE takes out everyone. PVP meta has become stale, being skillpower sets only and only some classes benefit from it

Edited March 18, 2023 by joshei02

[VenomX]

18 hours ago, GodOfEntity said:

 Personally I'd much rather two bourgs a champ, a knight, and a cleric, in a DG than a mage. 

Buddy, nobody cares about Mana Shield in pvm.  Clearly you’ve never pvp before. 

[Mitch31]

On 1/14/2023 at 10:01 AM, prettywomanlover said:

This skill is absolutely ridiculous in pvp, haven’t had as much experience with it in pve as I’m not a mage but I’ve pvped vs them, it takes multiple people to destroy a mages mana shield, and when it is destroyed they can just pop it again as if nothing happened. Mages can no joke tank better than knights and do 3x their damage it is very unfair. Most of the time, I can’t even destroy a mages mana shield before he kills me.. Please nerf this skill do something, maybe give it a 5 minute cooldown from when you used it last idk but it needs to change it’s really OP! Thanks

bruuhhh.. u can get your character a Decent items and good strategy to defeat them. Raiders/ Scouts/ Champs can easily break the shield.. and u know what? Raiders can actually create 20k critical damage that can easily kill a Mage , then Stun them during skill casting.. EASY brooooooo EASY!!! u might be thinking of "click and hit and win strategy" is not an effective way of playing with mage, one more thing broooo.... casting Mana shield cost a lot of MANA...if they spam it, it leads to MP shortage and getting maximum level of mana shield cost a lot of SKILL POINTs that leads to not getting those passives for MANA consumption(conservation) . 

there are a lot of ways to defeat Mages.. just maximized your character items and good strategies.

it's really Funny when you said "  Mages can no joke tank better than knights " I bring knight in COU, and u know what? ULVERICK smack one MAGE 2x in cave WITH MANA SHIELD and BOOOOOM.. She's Gone... 

MAGE are not OP...  we call it BALANCE GAMING since mages are not known for their defense. 

Just Get some More experience Playing Rose brooooo... More Practice.... TC bruuuuh

[Ericsam92]

On 1/14/2023 at 1:10 PM, prettywomanlover said:

I have not played mage this on this iteration of Rose online, but I have a hard time believing you're sacrificing not getting a ton of power skills to get this ability, It costs 5 skill points to max out It's hard for me to believe you would be significantly stronger if you hadn't spent those 5 skill points. (And that's assuming your maxing it out) I am not saying at all that mages are supposed to be a "free kill" or easy class to kill, even without mana shield, they are absolutely not easy. I played Rose NA for a long time, I remember them performing very well and still being extremely overpowered infact without mana shield. With that being said, I do not have the mentality mages are weak and supposed to be an easy class to kill by any means. Mages were designed to be squishy, and extremely strong like i said, each class has their strengths and weaknesses, one class should not have everything. And they could definitely balance this skill in PVM without affecting pvp, like i said i am unsure of how this skill performs in PVM, My perspective is only toward PVP.  And I am not saying they should remove it, just balance the skill it is ridiculously over powered and mages can literally out tank knights with it, and keep re-applying it every time it breaks.. And no, it does not add much strategy to the class, and require you to use your brain very much as you mentioned, You simply have to press the button every take it, breaks, and make sure you have enough mana and you're invincible. Infact I think it takes away a lot from the class and makes them way easier than intended, and makes you use your brain even less.

I agree you say I'm a knight also can't tank ..zzzz mage tank better than Knight