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Mana shield needs a major nerf


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On 1/20/2023 at 4:53 AM, OwlchemistVile said:

The solution is the same today as it was on NA years ago, for several years.

Get good and shut up.

are you even level cap yet? still speaking out your ass or wut?

 

On 1/20/2023 at 2:42 AM, Rootstock said:

Erm, so we can disagree on how powered mana shield is. But ”clerics shouldn’t be able to tank”?! Have you tried leveling a battle cleric? I have — you’re not welcome in parties (no AoE and everyone has a heal slave) and you’re definitely not overpowered. The only reason to play the class from early to late game is that you can do cool stuff solo like hunt bosses. Battle cleric is pretty much the ”Paladin” or ”Faith” class (whatever your frame of reference is) in this game, of course you should be able to tank a bit.

Now, I haven’t reached endgame yet so can’t say how OP mana shield is then, but until level 200 or so at least it most definitely is not OP in PvM and should not be nerfed. If it were nerfed by say 20% I probably wouldn’t even use it. If clerics get too OP endgame it has to do with something else (like summon gems? or whatever allows mana shield spam which isn’t possible mid-game).

 

Edit: Isn’t it funny how the narrative changed from ”clerics are useless now” to ”clerics are too OP” in a few weeks… Just shows how much attention people are paying to how the game can be played.

 

Battle clerics at max level are invincible with mana shield and 5 bonfires, while doing the same amount of damage as the highest dps classes in the game. 65% block with 25k mana shield.

Mages in bg's can 1v5 people just by aoeing them with mana shield up. As easy as this simp wants to make it 'seem' you cant just 'stun them and kill them', you're gonna have to break thru minimum 50k worth of shields before you actually get to their hp, and thats if they just stand there and try to tank you(which they absolutely can do)

ALL of vile's information comes from a server riddled with item mall p2w shit, he is out of date and hasnt gotten to experience the current endgame.

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15 hours ago, Flagrant said:

are you even level cap yet? still speaking out your ass or wut?

 

Battle clerics at max level are invincible with mana shield and 5 bonfires, while doing the same amount of damage as the highest dps classes in the game. 65% block with 25k mana shield.

Mages in bg's can 1v5 people just by aoeing them with mana shield up. As easy as this simp wants to make it 'seem' you cant just 'stun them and kill them', you're gonna have to break thru minimum 50k worth of shields before you actually get to their hp, and thats if they just stand there and try to tank you(which they absolutely can do)

ALL of vile's information comes from a server riddled with item mall p2w shit, he is out of date and hasnt gotten to experience the current endgame.

To me it sounds more like 5 flames is the problem than mana shield (i.e., summon gems can be quite OP). I’m not max level so I can’t comment on that, but I can assure you that for most players (who are not max’d) mana shield is definitely not OP — the skill has a fair cost and is not spammable when leveling due to the high MP cost. Nerfing it would make leveling a battle cleric quite unviable since it’s a key component of the build.
 

If it needs a nerf for PvP then it’s PvP that has to be balanced somehow (or gems, etc.), but for PvE mana shield is quite balanced IMHO. Leveling with a battle cleric has really been a struggle, I had it so much easier with my Raider.

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17 hours ago, OwlchemistVile said:

It is until you blow through hall your mana in 15-20 seconds and die.

Are you being serious right now? Are we going to pretend like you weren't calling for Mage nerfs in 2017/18 on NARose for this exact same reason? Now you are playing a mage and you want to pretend like its not a problem?

You literally called for shield to be nerfed by 50% at one point. lul

 

owl.png

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6 hours ago, Killaas said:

Are you being serious right now? Are we going to pretend like you weren't calling for Mage nerfs in 2017/18 on NARose for this exact same reason? Now you are playing a mage and you want to pretend like its not a problem?

You literally called for shield to be nerfed by 50% at one point. lul

 

owl.png

You spent, all that time digging through archives to come at me with .... that....? Me saying it should be reduced by 50% and REPLACED WITH SOMETHING ELSE (A net loss of nothing...) Bercause they're too relied upon, NOT over powered. There is a difference.
This was also BEFORE they added in the re-cast cooldown of 4 seconds.

I don't know what's more apt for description, pathetic, or impressive.

Since this seems to be another sock-puppet account, might as well start collecting black-list registers. Welcome aboard chum. Maybe next time don't waste hours of your life to prove nothing and get ignored.

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1 minute ago, OwlchemistVile said:

You spent, all that time digging through archives to come at me with .... that....? Me saying it should be reduced by 50% and REPLACED WITH SOMETHING ELSE (A net loss of nothing...)
This was also BEFORE they added in the re-cast cooldown of 4 seconds.

I don't know what's more apt for description, pathetic, or impressive.

Since this seems to be another sock-puppet account, might as well start collecting black-list registers. Welcome aboard chum. Maybe next time don't waste hours of your life to prove nothing and get ignored.

Completely ignoring the part where you clearly indicate the shield is too larger and needs to be cut in half. That shield is still just as large, but damage has gotten worse because of no runes making their effective shield compared to back then even better.

Even if that weren't the case, mages clearly need to be nerfed.

They are tankier then knights, deal more damage then most if not all classes, and have some of the best CC in the game. 

Hours? To copy and paste a post I know you to have made? Hardly. You are just mad I called you out for being the HYOPCRITE that you are.

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Hypocrisy or whatever aside, we should explore alternatives to mana shield. I don't feel it's healthy to have one single point of failure and one meta for mages. Yes, we have multiple masteries but all those magister mages have ONE type of mana shield. Right now it's a bone of contention and appeasing everybody will cause old and even new balancing problems. We could benefit from a variety of new defensive mechanics and should start brainstorming right now.

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46 minutes ago, Bobbity said:

Hypocrisy or whatever aside, we should explore alternatives to mana shield. I don't feel it's healthy to have one single point of failure and one meta for mages. Yes, we have multiple masteries but all those magister mages have ONE type of mana shield. Right now it's a bone of contention and appeasing everybody will cause old and even new balancing problems. We could benefit from a variety of new defensive mechanics and should start brainstorming right now.

Change mage's enhanced mana shield skill so it gives bonuses based on your active mastery stacks (fire/wind/water). Like fire could burn nearby enemies, frost could slow nearby enemies, wind periodically microstuns. 

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We're still left with f. mana shield as THE defensive mechanism for mages. What if we moved those effects to new skills branching off the masteries? Ones that significantly impact the available mana and provide some sort of dmg reduction, avoidance, delay or general mitigation?

(RELATED: Would be lovely if mages got a mobility skill so we're not stuck with the tank-tank-tank meta right up to 2025.)

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1 hour ago, DoubleRose said:

Change mage's enhanced mana shield skill so it gives bonuses based on your active mastery stacks (fire/wind/water). Like fire could burn nearby enemies, frost could slow nearby enemies, wind periodically microstuns. 

That sounds similar to one of the propositions Leonis made before he was unceremoniously disappeared from Warpportal. I never had any objections to elemental shields. And your suggestion is pretty close.

Fire: Burns enemies on attack
Wind: Increased dodge-rate while shield holds
Water: Magic Resistance up
Sorcery: [if changed to a pierce magic buff instead of magic defense down on target] Harmful Status Resistance up while shield hold.

Stuff like that.
Mana Shield is overly relied upon, hence my post that was referenced by that troll earlier. Taking 50% of the shield potency [and probably SP cost] and shifted to other avenues would inadvertently buff Mages, as instead of only needing to counter 1 button, you'd need to counter more. So, while it is a sort of "crutch" for Mages, shifting it from Mana Shield to a diverse repertoire needs to be thought out before hand as Mages can go from stable to very much never played like before.

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13 hours ago, OwlchemistVile said:

Mana Shield is overly relied upon, hence my post that was referenced by that troll earlier. Taking 50% of the shield potency [and probably SP cost] and shifted to other avenues would inadvertently buff Mages, as instead of only needing to counter 1 button, you'd need to counter more. So, while it is a sort of "crutch" for Mages, shifting it from Mana Shield to a diverse repertoire needs to be thought out before hand as Mages can go from stable to very much never played like before.

Clearly, this will be a nightmare to balance if we mess around with this. Let's leave Mana Shield as it is for now and just suggest some additions, then leave the heavy lifting (thinking/balancing) to the dev team. We definitely need more (and more diverse) mechanics so we can avoid problems like this in future. 

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6 hours ago, Bobbity said:

Clearly, this will be a nightmare to balance if we mess around with this. Let's leave Mana Shield as it is for now and just suggest some additions, then leave the heavy lifting (thinking/balancing) to the dev team. We definitely need more (and more diverse) mechanics so we can avoid problems like this in future. 

What dev team? The ones that let the economy destroy itself? The ones that can't fix crashing issues plaguing the server? The ones that removed runes but left rune materials dropping to this day? The ones that have let bots farm 24/7 in spots all day and night?  The ones that falsely banned people for "RMT" and only a very few can even get a real person to respond to them with anything more then boiler plate bull? Assuming they respond at all. The ones that have items disappear from their game and do nothing about it? They don't even know about the Gem dupe that is going around. 

The server is basically dead now and very few people even realize it. There is no reason to do PvE... nothing is worth anything. There is a reason to PvP in Honor gear, but the balance is so jacked up that its a nightmare to even consider. Pretty much every max level I know is barely playing the game now cause there is very little reason to do so. 

You are misplacing your faith if your putting on them for "thinking/balancing".

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Well, if you want to take on the burden of this balancing act, be my guest. I don't know if it's worth your time and effort, though. I'll be keeping my eye on other things - like earlygame crafting, explosives, living off-grid, different leveling strats, the scout/dealer overlap and stuff like that.

 

Good luck.

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Good evening,

It has come to my and many other people's attention how broken this skill is with the current buff mechanics, I've noticed more and more muse class players taking advantage of this in PVM and PVP.

PVP -

Literally takes 6+ skills to break the mana shield with self-buffs, the mana shield then has practically no cooldown and can easily regain their mana with a potion resulting in unlimited HP,

PVM -

Over and over i'm watching mages join dungeons and play the tank roll, constantly spamming mana shield and also providing the biggest dps, as a robe type class they're supposed to be the squishiest, yet they have defense capabilities that rival the Knight class which is supposed to be the games main tank.

On top of having a broken mana shield skill they also have a 200% MSPD down debuff and insanely high AP passives and skill power behind all their skills on top of a remove buff skill, 

 

My solution to this would be a 60 second cooldown on the mana shield skill and a 20 second buff timer (it wears off after 20 seconds) at a minimum, if not just remove mana shield all together no class should be this overpowered.

Alternatively make it a support cleric skill only and remove it from any offense type build.

 

 

 

 

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On 1/14/2023 at 3:56 PM, OwlchemistVile said:

You need to actually use crowd control and utility in pvp.
You can stun them during the cast, silence them, dispel it ,sleep them, or focus them. You think a Mage's Barrier is bad, Try focusing down a Cleric fully tanked out and spamming self heals. Or 1v1 a Katar in full dodge.

Games not even out and people are already expecting to left click someone and win.

In terms of 1v1 PVP this is wrong, there is no class in the game that will beat a mage 1v1 due to the mana shield, you won't even break it.

 

What you're saying here is you have to stun on the perfect tick the mage casts mana shield, if you miss then you're toast, as a scout I have to use my full skill rotation +3 or 4 normal hits just to break it and then they just instantly put it back up, that stacked with mana pots = unlimited HP in a 1v1 situation, It needs a 60 second cooldown and it needs a 20 second timer before the shield runs out.

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Don't make mages the squishiest please. Im pvm we get all the agro, the shield makes it easier to survive. Cooldown to 10sec maybe to match some of the mage skills. But don't kill mana shield.

Mana shield can be dispelled so besides a tad higher cooldown i don't believe it needs nerfing.. I rather don't see a 30-60sec cooldown.

Maybe make it last shorter like but not under a minute.

Edited by Angeltje
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1 minute ago, Angeltje said:

Don't make mages the squishiest please. Im pvm we get all the agro, the shield makes it easier to survive. Cooldown to 10sec maybe to match some of the mage skills. But don't kill mana shield.

1 minute ago, Angeltje said:

 

In PVM they're not as broken as PVP, the mana shield 100% needs to either be removed or heavily nerfed for PVP situations.

As for PVM they're not as broken as pvp but they're still over powered, no other high DPS class has that sort of mechanic so why should mages? Why should mages rival tanking abilities of knight? Why should mage be able to have the highest in game DPS and best tanking abilities both at the same time?

Are you saying don't nerf mana shield just because it's convenient to you? or do you have a mechanical reason behind why you're saying mana shield shouldn't be nerfed? because compared to every other class in game it's massively over powered

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4 minutes ago, Daxio said:

In PVM they're not as broken as PVP, the mana shield 100% needs to either be removed or heavily nerfed for PVP situations.

As for PVM they're not as broken as pvp but they're still over powered, no other high DPS class has that sort of mechanic so why should mages? Why should mages rival tanking abilities of knight? Why should mage be able to have the highest in game DPS and best tanking abilities both at the same time?

Are you saying don't nerf mana shield just because it's convenient to you? or do you have a mechanical reason behind why you're saying mana shield shouldn't be nerfed? because compared to every other class in game it's massively over powered

I am saying a cooldown of 10 maybe even 15sec sure. But the mana shield was added to combat the agro mages keep getting. It requires a lot of mana and you gotta invest a lot of skill points in passives to atleast have mana left after (re)casting.

Edited by Angeltje
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1 minute ago, Angeltje said:

I am saying a cooldown of 10 maybe even 15sec sure. But the mana shield was added to combat the agro mages keep getting. It requires a lot of mana and you gotta invest a lot of skill points in passives to atleast have mana left after (re)casting.

At 250 you won't have the same issues you're having now, also mages at end game just use mana pots and don't really have that issue.

I think a 15 second cooldown for PVM would be good, and a 60 second cooldown for PVP with a 20 second timer on it, they should make it into a (PVP) and (PVM) skill book

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12 minutes ago, Daxio said:

At 250 you won't have the same issues you're having now, also mages at end game just use mana pots and don't really have that issue.

I think a 15 second cooldown for PVM would be good, and a 60 second cooldown for PVP with a 20 second timer on it, they should make it into a (PVP) and (PVM) skill book

The pvm should be relatively easy to get then as otherwise leveling is hell. The agro mages and even cleric gets is insanely not funny.

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