Stabilize Zulie Economy in the Server

[xSwift]

May I know if you have available data on what's the current volume of zulie in the server as of now? I'm just wondering that there's a significant hike in prices in the previous days. I understand there's what we call a law of demand and supply but the increase in prices is somewhat unreasonable. And I'm also wondering, there are some players that are still capable to buy these even at very unreasonable prices. It seems there's something wrong happening to our zulie economy and we need to think of a way on how to stabilize and burn the zulies in the server. 

[Rootstock]

Thanks for opening the discussion.

I think the recent inflation is a bit suspicious. There are people running around in Junon dropping millions like in iROSE days. Which just reminds me of how all previous (legitimate) ROSE versions I played ended up.

My two cents:

The overall liquidity of the server (amount of zulie in circulation) depends on two factors: sources and sinks.

 

The main zulie sources have been the Orlo (and to a lesser extent, Kenji) quests and items sold to NPCs. In total that’s about ~40m of legitimate zulie per level ~200 character. NPC items don’t give much zulie, but I’d assume on average they add up to some couple dozen millions per lvl 250 player?
 

The zulie sinks on this server are intense. I’m only a casual but I’m pretty sure I’ve spent more zulie on Crune alone than I have made from quests and drops. And I don’t even have +20 gear! Each +20 item out there has basically sunk someone’s quest zulies.

So how is there so much zulie in circulation? To me it seems like sinks even outweigh sources. Early on, some made unreasonable amounts from chewed bones. But that’s long ago.

Weirder still, there are less and less players doing Orlo quests — so zulie sources are shrinking. For a while, about a month ago, the server’s economy was actually behaving predictably. Zulie sources were nerfed and less players were doing Orlo quests, and prices of key items quickly halved.

But then, since about a week ago, price hikes have been insane. Supply and demand mechanics don’t seem to explain it. If anything, there’s more supply and less demand of key items than before (people only need one set of many core items to share among accounts).

I’m just flagging this as suspicious. I can think of two possible drivers of what’s happening.

The first one is certain: RMT is accumulating insane amounts of zulies to a few people who are hoarding items. Some people are buying all skill books, mounts etc. from Junon and setting up a monopoly, driving the prices up. The same is happening to lisents etc. because some clans have monopolised certain economies (this is legitimate, though!).

The second option is… someone is duping or exploiting something. No proof here, but each ROSE version I’ve played had eventually had this problem. Therefore, my priors are set to be suspicious here. I’ve seen some people vend stacks of items that you only get 1 per quest. Can’t be sure, but it does smell of duping. So this is definitely worth looking into.

All in all: the economy is behaving weirdly now after being quite nice and stable for a couple of months. It’s suspicious and definitely aversive towards new players.

Happy to be corrected on anything!

 

 

 

Edited March 25, 2023 by Rootstock

[Sjoerd]

monopoly on listent market = price increases. simple as that. and no proper fix for it

Edited March 25, 2023 by Sjoerd

[Hercules]

Just simply release lisent Z (better than lisent U), that's reward from dg or from diassembling exalted gears. It will fix both market and turak

[FelipeMontes]

The guy near mildun that sells a full inventory of max stats everyday is a zulie selller.  And to answer your question about how people are able to afford all those expensive items?  They buy zulies, which isn’t allowed in the game.

[GodOfEntity]

Most people are farming zullies more than they are farming for items. 

I believe that soon people will shift from farming zullies to farming items (in order to farm zullies) -- 


I think that this shift in farming is important to happen, that prices will start to come to more of an equalize soon. 

I don't know, I'm not certain. But, this thought is helping me sleep better at night, rather than tossing and turning in worry. 

[zyk]

15 hours ago, Rootstock said:

Thanks for opening the discussion.

I think the recent inflation is a bit suspicious. There are people running around in Junon dropping millions like in iROSE days. Which just reminds me of how all previous (legitimate) ROSE versions I played ended up.

My two cents:

The overall liquidity of the server (amount of zulie in circulation) depends on two factors: sources and sinks.

 

The main zulie sources have been the Orlo (and to a lesser extent, Kenji) quests and items sold to NPCs. In total that’s about ~40m of legitimate zulie per level ~200 character. NPC items don’t give much zulie, but I’d assume on average they add up to some couple dozen millions per lvl 250 player?
 

The zulie sinks on this server are intense. I’m only a casual but I’m pretty sure I’ve spent more zulie on Crune alone than I have made from quests and drops. And I don’t even have +20 gear! Each +20 item out there has basically sunk someone’s quest zulies.

So how is there so much zulie in circulation? To me it seems like sinks even outweigh sources. Early on, some made unreasonable amounts from chewed bones. But that’s long ago.

Weirder still, there are less and less players doing Orlo quests — so zulie sources are shrinking. For a while, about a month ago, the server’s economy was actually behaving predictably. Zulie sources were nerfed and less players were doing Orlo quests, and prices of key items quickly halved.

But then, since about a week ago, price hikes have been insane. Supply and demand mechanics don’t seem to explain it. If anything, there’s more supply and less demand of key items than before (people only need one set of many core items to share among accounts).

I’m just flagging this as suspicious. I can think of two possible drivers of what’s happening.

The first one is certain: RMT is accumulating insane amounts of zulies to a few people who are hoarding items. Some people are buying all skill books, mounts etc. from Junon and setting up a monopoly, driving the prices up. The same is happening to lisents etc. because some clans have monopolised certain economies (this is legitimate, though!).

The second option is… someone is duping or exploiting something. No proof here, but each ROSE version I’ve played had eventually had this problem. Therefore, my priors are set to be suspicious here. I’ve seen some people vend stacks of items that you only get 1 per quest. Can’t be sure, but it does smell of duping. So this is definitely worth looking into.

All in all: the economy is behaving weirdly now after being quite nice and stable for a couple of months. It’s suspicious and definitely aversive towards new players.

Happy to be corrected on anything!

 

 

 

The First one is the Main Reason most of the time. Even in real world. Established players usually do that. Well its business and way to earn more. Supply and Demand Control. They'll be buying Good Items and Holding it in. Only those Low Quality Items goes out to the Market. It's a way too, in establishing a strong clan. It helps Clans to build more power. 

[Rootstock]

5 hours ago, zyk said:

The First one is the Main Reason most of the time. Even in real world. Established players usually do that. Well its business and way to earn more. Supply and Demand Control. They'll be buying Good Items and Holding it in. Only those Low Quality Items goes out to the Market. It's a way too, in establishing a strong clan. It helps Clans to build more power. 

Yeah, wealth begets wealth. And ROSE has no progressive wealth tax.
 

However I still find the amount of zulie in circulation suspicious. Consider someone buying a set of items for 6b. That’s the quest rewards of 150 players for one accessory set. I’m just really suspicious that there’s this much zulie in game, which relates to my point #2. The problem with dupes is that it only takes one exploit(er) to ruin the economy. But it’s all speculation so I’ll leave it at that.

 

Edit: So I’m hearing anecdotes now of random people trading randoms in Junon and handing them stacks of Lisent U. Before I’ve seen people running around dropping millions… Again, not proof of duping, but this is exactly what happened in previous ROSE versions when dupes were exploited.

 

Edited March 26, 2023 by Rootstock

[Mewi]

15 hours ago, Rootstock said:

Yeah, wealth begets wealth. And ROSE has no progressive wealth tax.
 

However I still find the amount of zulie in circulation suspicious. Consider someone buying a set of items for 6b. That’s the quest rewards of 150 players for one accessory set. I’m just really suspicious that there’s this much zulie in game, which relates to my point #2. The problem with dupes is that it only takes one exploit(er) to ruin the economy. But it’s all speculation so I’ll leave it at that.

 

Edit: So I’m hearing anecdotes now of random people trading randoms in Junon and handing them stacks of Lisent U. Before I’ve seen people running around dropping millions… Again, not proof of duping, but this is exactly what happened in previous ROSE versions when dupes were exploited.

 

Your point on the amount in circulation is the most intriguing point for me. It doesn't make sense for a server that's been open for what...3 months(?)

Not to mention the amount that's simply just being sold externally (RMT). <removed>

Maybe I'm just ignorant to the how's and why's - but I find it hard to believe the amount of zulie in circulation is genuine and void of any exploitation or duping. 

Edited March 26, 2023 by Avatar

[Bluntastic]

On 3/26/2023 at 4:14 AM, Rootstock said:

Yeah, wealth begets wealth. And ROSE has no progressive wealth tax.
 

However I still find the amount of zulie in circulation suspicious. Consider someone buying a set of items for 6b. That’s the quest rewards of 150 players for one accessory set. I’m just really suspicious that there’s this much zulie in game, which relates to my point #2. The problem with dupes is that it only takes one exploit(er) to ruin the economy. But it’s all speculation so I’ll leave it at that.

 

Edit: So I’m hearing anecdotes now of random people trading randoms in Junon and handing them stacks of Lisent U. Before I’ve seen people running around dropping millions… Again, not proof of duping, but this is exactly what happened in previous ROSE versions when dupes were exploited.

 

Hey man, I'm not a mod or dev or anything but I'm on your side on trying to create a stable, forever market on ROSE. I don't have the full game experience yet to know where the zulie comes from but I know about Ava, Hotch, Bith so far lol. Current mains are 16x and 17x, so havent gotten to end game yet. I think we should get together and put a spreadsheet together for the devs. There needs to be some internal work from community members to persuade the higher ups that. Their time is invested in getting the game stable, working, coded, networked etc. If you don't have the time to do some research then I enjoy hearing your future comments about this

Edited March 27, 2023 by Bluntastic

[Rootstock]

16 hours ago, Mewi said:

Your point on the amount in circulation is the most intriguing point for me. It doesn't make sense for a server that's been open for what...3 months(?)

Not to mention the amount that's simply just being sold externally (RMT). <removed>

Maybe I'm just ignorant to the how's and why's - but I find it hard to believe the amount of zulie in circulation is genuine and void of any exploitation or duping. 

Yeah it’s especially suspicious when so many people have full +20 sets and each of those +20 items has sunk like 30–100m to Crune alone. And after level 200 the only sources of zulie (directly, from NPCs) is selling items (20–200k a piece) many of which people don’t even sell (because they are better disassembled).

Just my ”back of envelope” thoughts, anyways.

Would be interesting if devs had access to the wealth distribution of players in game. Just to see how much zulie is really in circulation and see if that figure is plausible.

[xSwift]

Up and thanks for the support by commenting guys. Hope our Rose Team is considering this as their top priority. Too bad for newbies if the economy will stay as it is when we will release this officially via steam or other platforms.

[VenomX]

Why is Lisent U 500k+ a piece now?

[Phish_]

I think there has to be some kind of zulie exploit happening. Inflation exploded crazy fast and the amount of zulie in the market for people offering 12b for a vagrant can't be natural.

[Mewi]

44 minutes ago, Phish_ said:

I think there has to be some kind of zulie exploit happening. Inflation exploded crazy fast and the amount of zulie in the market for people offering 12b for a vagrant can't be natural.

There is no way the amount of zuly in circulation is legitimate.

[DoubleRose]

6 minutes ago, Mewi said:

There is no way the amount of zuly in circulation is legitimate.

I suspect it's like the in need of repairs exploit where there's something broken being kept on the downlow by a couple players.

[Mewi]

Just now, DoubleRose said:

I suspect it's like the in need of repairs exploit where there's something broken being kept on the downlow by a couple players.

100% it is, and given the amount of complaints and feedback surrounding the economy. You'd hope there'd be a significant amount of interest in identifying what it is and how it works, because this would also likely encourage a reset/wipe or at the very least a suspension on accounts who HAVE abused it. 

[Phish_]

Yeah probably... I hate to say it but it might be worth considering investigating the accounts that have such unrealistic amounts of zulie and where they are getting it from.

[SteakTarTare]

Yeeees it is so bad right now. You spend all this time saving 100m for something and when you can afford it, it's now 150m. 

[DoubleRose]

53 minutes ago, Mewi said:

100% it is, and given the amount of complaints and feedback surrounding the economy. You'd hope there'd be a significant amount of interest in identifying what it is and how it works, because this would also likely encourage a reset/wipe or at the very least a suspension on accounts who HAVE abused it. 

A wipe would have to preserve IM items, names, give special privileges to clan masters and deputies to be able to remake their clans, and give special rewards (on a couple month delay) to players who reached certain level milestones. Like a max level character gets to keep their name and a couple items to come back later, and only clan leaders can remake their clans. I'm warming up to the idea, but the game still needs months of testing and development first.

[madelline]

3 hours ago, SteakTarTare said:

Yeeees it is so bad right now. You spend all this time saving 100m for something and when you can afford it, it's now 150m. 

how about flip some items?

1. buy

2. sell

 

if you know LadyPsyber, she's doing this since the beginning, find her sometimes near storage

 

 

 

3 hours ago, Phish_ said:

Yeah probably... I hate to say it but it might be worth considering investigating the accounts that have such unrealistic amounts of zulie and where they are getting it from.

there are a lot of ways for a newbie (level 80-100) or a team that could get zulies, 1 lucky drop could make you a billionaire (krawfy medal) 1.2 billion atm

 

it would be difficult for the devs. to track this

1. market is very unstable, yesterdays price could possibly different vs. todays

2. buyers and sellers agree on price therefore, if a seller sell his stuffs at a much lower/higher price compared to others that should not be a red flag because the deal is consensus, no such thing as op or under priced

 

3 hours ago, DoubleRose said:

A wipe would have to preserve IM items, names, give special privileges to clan masters and deputies to be able to remake their clans, and give special rewards (on a couple month delay) to players who reached certain level milestones. Like a max level character gets to keep their name and a couple items to come back later, and only clan leaders can remake their clans. I'm warming up to the idea, but the game still needs months of testing and development first.

 

they made it clear that is no wiped out, but you can hope

what i suggest is hang around in junon and see what is indemand and get some zulies, so you would have a different perspective

[Mewi]

5 minutes ago, madelline said:

 

they made it clear that is no wiped out, but you can hope

what i suggest is hang around in junon and see what is indemand and get some zulies, so you would have a different perspective

We're here discussing this because we've already seen the market in Junon. Anyone who has would agree it's largely inaccessible for the majority who haven't lucked out or farmed/exploited away.

[madelline]

what i only see here is the market is unstable by this means

 

it is easy to drive the price, one person shouting few hours could possible change the course of the price entirely

example:

the reasonable price of forest ash is 10m, however a lot of people are trying to purchase them on rush therefore we could see people shouting everywhere this could drive the price crazy

 

fewer supply but high demand

example:

as we progress, a lot of people are getting bored by repeatable spam in dungeon, even though most are level 250, some just preferred to flip items (buy and sell) rather than farming

 

devs. keeps on changing the game mechanics like (with the recent patch about turak, mobs spaw rate in maps such adventure plain)

example:

this drives the price crazy

1. turak farmers think that it is now much difficult to get lisent u, hg and enthirics therefore they pump up the price

2. once they pump up the price other than refined items, gems are also affected like: for an artisan to craft a gem from grade 1 to grade 7, he needs 1,300 pcs. of chemicals at the minimum (enthiric is the easiest chems to purchase by volume qty.)

3. dirties, most dirty farmers are camping at adventure plain, breezy hills, like #1. supply is now limited therefore price pumps

 

however, like i mentioned there is no such thing as over priced or under priced item

i can put an apple for sale for 100 million and if somebody purchase them it is a good deal, it doesn't make sense and crazy but it is consensus

 

as a seller i think this is over price but if somebody purchase them, maybe this is a real price of these items, agreement

 

what is the guarante what if they have a wiped out the server will stabilize / bug free / glitch free?

none, this is a continious process and they can just alter / change the course of the game like they did at chew bone

 

i cannot aggree with wipe out because not just me, for others who spends their precious time farming will be wasted (most players) already has game experience so it does not matter anymore

people are getting old, most have kids / families, time is precious and devs. valued our time

try to farm krawfie medal and get lucky to get it, sell for 1.2b and you will not complain

tbf, you cannot stabilize the market, being unstable is good becuase we can see that the market is moving if it's flat there is no volume like in stock market, crypto

if its flat there is no movement, people are no robots, we have minds to bid and outbid therefore the market should be unstable

[DoubleRose]

1 hour ago, madelline said:

 

they made it clear that is no wiped out, but you can hope

what i suggest is hang around in junon and see what is indemand and get some zulies, so you would have a different perspective

I'm fully geared and have plenty of zulie leftover. My issue has less to do with the market (though stuff going for billions a few months in is a sign something is odd) and more that things are half finished and need additional development. People are coming into this game expecting it to be done and then they leave because it's not.

[Rootstock]

7 hours ago, Mewi said:

100% it is, and given the amount of complaints and feedback surrounding the economy. You'd hope there'd be a significant amount of interest in identifying what it is and how it works, because this would also likely encourage a reset/wipe or at the very least a suspension on accounts who HAVE abused it. 

Yeah. Those who attribute the inflation to demand (demand-pull inflation) still fail to provide examples of where all the zulie is coming from.

I’ve played this game a fair bit and ever since I made my 30m from the Orlo quest the zulie I’ve made from NPCs really is negligible. Sure, you sell a handful of blue items here and there (usually 20–100k), but even the exalted gear is best to disassemble. Meanwhile, NPCs (hey, Crune!) eat a whole lot of zulie.

The more interesting question to me is: what on earth is increasing money supply at this rate? And yes, money supply also creates inflation.

Prices have ~doubled in the past week. The situation now is that if you don’t play for a week, your savings go *poof*. The economy was really stable for ~2 months (ever since a major zulie supply, chewed bones, was nerfed). This sudden change is suspicious.

Edit: And I should add that ever since I wrote those posts above I’ve had some people DM me telling that they’ve seen really suspicious things, like people with full inventory stacks of items you shouldn’t have at those quantities. There’s also been some screenshots on discord. Not direct proof of duping, but it’s a signal worth looking at. Again, it only takes one exploit(er) to cause hyperinflation.

Edit 2: Further, since we all know RMT is happening quite a lot, there’s actually a real-world monetary incentive for people to find and exploit a dupe. So if there is a dupe exploit, some may be illegitimately making real money from it.

Edited March 28, 2023 by Rootstock