Stabilize Zulie Economy in the Server

[madelline]

@Rootstockthread said Stabilize Zulie Economy in the Server, we have to stick to topic but i have a comments on your opinion

 

duping - i saw that ss pet that you were talking about, i think if a person will dupe something it would be very valuable not just a pet that could be obtained via. repeatable quest so i doubt that those pet capsules are duped

we/you have no idea how hardcore these farmers are, i heard that in philippines there are computer cafes that they let the children play free using computer shops owners account so probably that is just another work around or possiblity therefore they grind like crazy

 

rmt - i do not want this topic because if you are from ph and your characters like mine have significant amount of zulies, a random person could accuse you in an instant because of this economy thing

but i believe that many already quit, they sell their characters/items as well as zulies which is impossible to 100% track/caught by any means like any other mmo, we just need to wait until those rmt sellers exaust (if this is the real cause why the market has billions of zulies)

what i would like to see is for lisent u price to go down, so many players should burn their zulies at crune, imagine 1 mill fee just to fail the refine

bots - this could be another factor why we see tons of materials (farmed items) around

[Rootstock]

12 minutes ago, madelline said:

@Rootstockthread said Stabilize Zulie Economy in the Server, we have to stick to topic but i have a comments on your opinion

 

duping - i saw that ss pet that you were talking about, i think if a person will dupe something it would be very valuable not just a pet that could be obtained via. repeatable quest so i doubt that those pet capsules are duped

we/you have no idea how hardcore these farmers are, i heard that in philippines there are computer cafes that they let the children play free using computer shops owners account so probably that is just another work around or possiblity therefore they grind like crazy

 

rmt - i do not want this topic because if you are from ph and your characters like mine have significant amount of zulies, a random person could accuse you in an instant because of this economy thing

but i believe that many already quit, they sell their characters/items as well as zulies which is impossible to 100% track/caught by any means like any other mmo, we just need to wait until those rmt sellers exaust (if this is the real cause why the market has billions of zulies)

what i would like to see is for lisent u price to go down, so many players should burn their zulies at crune, imagine 1 mill fee just to fail the refine

bots - this could be another factor why we see tons of materials (farmed items) around

Yeah, maybe. Thanks for your thoughts. It might be that people just grind in ways that I can’t even imagine.

However, I’ve played around 4 official versions of ROSE before this one. Each one of those eventually had a dupe exploit. I saw it personally many times. So I wouldn’t rule that out without a thorough investigation.

Just one more thing to think about: let’s the zulie floating around is generated by selling items to NPCs. Just generating *one billion zulie* — which really isn’t that much in the current economy — requires selling approximately *twenty thousand* blue items (at 50k average) to an NPC. And that’s not accounting for the fact that zulie also disappears when items are upgraded and repaired.

[madelline]

@Rootstock we/you could think about many possible ways that the game is being exploit like the dupe thing that you mentioned, however we should have a benefit of the doubt and give our trust to devs, like atomic and atoms there is no possible way that this is the same as the last time unless proven otherwise, so until then i resolve my case about duped.

we have drop gems such as dolomite in game so there should be floods of mats in the market that we can sell to NPC and with the help of this skill, possbly maybe there are just grinding the way that we cannot imagine

 

if i can generate millions daily/billions weekly from mat drops i would not expose it, i would be very secretive not to expose how i hustle in game, you/we never really know but these accusations about dupe/rmt/exploite we cannot really prove them, maybe we aren't just husstling enough therefore we attack them

 

thuis dupe should cause alarm not to us but to devs, they have eyes on everything so again it doesnt mean they are existed before (dupe) they still exist now

[Mewi]

14 hours ago, madelline said:

if i can generate millions daily/billions weekly from mat drops i would not expose it, i would be very secretive not to expose how i hustle in game, you/we never really know but these accusations about dupe/rmt/exploite we cannot really prove them, maybe we aren't just husstling enough therefore we attack them

 

thuis dupe should cause alarm not to us but to devs, they have eyes on everything so again it doesnt mean they are existed before (dupe) they still exist now

I think it's proof enough that there is trillions (not an exaggeration) of zulie in circulation right now. The server opened up in December... that is in itself just insane.

I've tried to replicate a few of the old methods of duping (ethically) because I'm eager to get this bs dealt with asap but the methods I've tried have failed. There could even be a new one, idk. 

 

Bottom line is, people aren't going to touch a game that's both 20 yrs old with a lot of baggage AND has a broken economy as a result of exploits.

[xSwift]

The thing is, we need to have comfort that the zulies circulating in the server are genuine. We need to see zulie statistics and trace these significant amount of zulies where it came from. Hoping that the management take this seriously and consider it as their top priority for the next coming days. 

Also, devs should continously monitor the zulie economy as this will make the server be gone as early as you can imagine if ignored. 

Edited March 29, 2023 by Supremo.NA

[XOXO]

probably too late for economy stabilization. I have seen this issue coming from a mile away, and informed Rednim about it, including a temporary fix. The ticket alone took a month before getting a very stereotype reply. and to this day(another month passed since), there aren't any signs of fixes or band-aids.

Zulies circulating are genuine. Zulies in the server are the build-up of everyone's desire to refine and buy gears. The increased purchasing power of players due to <<<<>>>> made it possible.

about nerfed zulie quests: Chewed Bone nerf did slow things down, but In-need-of-repairs quest bug fix didn't actually nerf the zulie flow. It made things worse cause people became desperate and found an alternative / faster / easier way.

*my thoughts about how zulie value went trash*

In every MMO, there comes a period where game currency follows iRL currency, so when the exchange rates go to an equilibrium, the ones punished for it are the f2p players left farming in-game currencies for gears.

How? let's make the infamous Lisent U an example.
Sources of the best refine materials and rare gears being held by one group makes the zulie accumulation easy. therefore, zulies funneled in this manner makes the zulie-material cycle fast, and exclusive. If this 'group' then makes an RMT trade(selling zulie), they would beat other zulie sellers, cause they have the luxury of selling zulies at a lower rate due to having the exclusivity of re-accumulating zulies again, in a fast manner. this makes them the go-to of zulie buyers. so if another zulie seller wants to make profit, they would then be forced to put on a lower rate than before, just to sell. then here comes the 'group' again with a new batch of freshly accumulated zulies, gonna be sold on a lower rate so it would be sold fast. this cycle and competition to sell zulie continues on. and as the value of zulie lowers, prices in-game increase as it's the way to make up for reaching the 'equilibrium' value.

take note that this can happen on any in-game item, as long as it is needed by the players. this insight came from my experience of playing a ton of MMO's as a f2p player, and observation(haki).

kinda sad that Rednim thought it was just being the Lisent U's alone, buffing Turak just makes it more exclusive to end-game farmers. LOL

[Mewi]

3 hours ago, XOXO said:

probably too late for economy stabilization. I have seen this issue coming from a mile away, and informed Rednim about it, including a temporary fix. The ticket alone took a month before getting a very stereotype reply. and to this day(another month passed since), there aren't any signs of fixes or band-aids.

Zulies circulating are genuine. Zulies in the server are the build-up of everyone's desire to refine and buy gears. The increased purchasing power of players due to <<<<>>>> made it possible.

about nerfed zulie quests: Chewed Bone nerf did slow things down, but In-need-of-repairs quest bug fix didn't actually nerf the zulie flow. It made things worse cause people became desperate and found an alternative / faster / easier way.

*my thoughts about how zulie value went trash*

In every MMO, there comes a period where game currency follows iRL currency, so when the exchange rates go to an equilibrium, the ones punished for it are the f2p players left farming in-game currencies for gears.

How? let's make the infamous Lisent U an example.
Sources of the best refine materials and rare gears being held by one group makes the zulie accumulation easy. therefore, zulies funneled in this manner makes the zulie-material cycle fast, and exclusive. If this 'group' then makes an RMT trade(selling zulie), they would beat other zulie sellers, cause they have the luxury of selling zulies at a lower rate due to having the exclusivity of re-accumulating zulies again, in a fast manner. this makes them the go-to of zulie buyers. so if another zulie seller wants to make profit, they would then be forced to put on a lower rate than before, just to sell. then here comes the 'group' again with a new batch of freshly accumulated zulies, gonna be sold on a lower rate so it would be sold fast. this cycle and competition to sell zulie continues on. and as the value of zulie lowers, prices in-game increase as it's the way to make up for reaching the 'equilibrium' value.

take note that this can happen on any in-game item, as long as it is needed by the players. this insight came from my experience of playing a ton of MMO's as a f2p player, and observation(haki).

kinda sad that Rednim thought it was just being the Lisent U's alone, buffing Turak just makes it more exclusive to end-game farmers. LOL

All the more reason why a wipe should be prevalent. 

I hate that we have to tip toe around certain topics because fear of ban hammers and the like, it's not a healthy way to discuss and address concerns. 

[DoubleRose]

5 hours ago, Mewi said:

All the more reason why a wipe should be prevalent. 

I hate that we have to tip toe around certain topics because fear of ban hammers and the like, it's not a healthy way to discuss and address concerns. 

Wipe without fixing the problem and it will just happen again. Prices have doubled just this past week. Devs need to figure out these zulie sources. 

[Mewi]

8 hours ago, DoubleRose said:

Wipe without fixing the problem and it will just happen again. Prices have doubled just this past week. Devs need to figure out these zulie sources. 

Of course. A wipe shouldn't be done haphazardly...  once the exploits/abuse have been caught out then it would be a consideration.

[GodOfEntity]

I think there was a wave of accounts that had lots of zullies on them sold recently. -- All of which was farmed (for the most part)  legit. 


I think what we're seeing is the people that bought those accounts, that have a deep understanding of the game, running the economy.  (Running, not particularly ruining) 

TO be honest though, you don't even need a large capital investment of zullies. 

Take buy and sell of Lisent U for exampe. 50,000z profit each time it's flipped. Which is weird, but, people ARE flipping this. full stacks. 5-10 stacks, at 50m per stack. 

250m per day those Buy/Sell  shops are making. Not to mention Scarabs bought at 30k per, and sold at 50k per. -- 

What a lot of people do, is they reach end game'ish- Then they decide it's time to vend. 

It is interesting where this zullie is coming from, but, get 4 "Farmers" on 2 to three accounts each. - Spam leveling, this is 600m zullies every 3 days. Now do that with 100 people. You're looking at 3,600,000,0000,0000 ---- That's about how much zullies has entered the economy over the past 2 months. 

The inflation is reflecting that. 

As I said earlier. It's going to be a point were people stop farming zullies, they will start farming items. 

Items seem expensive now, I strongly believe it'll take a nose dive.

As long as I'm right, and people aren't actually duping the zullies ( I suspect it could have happened, but from what I'm seeing. It genuinely seems like people are just hyperfocused on farming) 

Edited March 30, 2023 by GodOfEntity

[GodOfEntity]

On that note. The people that want a wipe of the server. - Why? Is there something you need help farming? Let me know I will try to farm it with you. 

I don't want a server wipe, even if there was duping. I've spent way too many hours to have what I have. But if you're willing to put in the time with me, I'm willing to put in the time to farm with you too. 

This is my left over farm after just a couple of days from farming. 

Also I make a weapon 15 with the matts as well. 


I am not Rich in this game. (that's Hide) But, I am more than willing to help anyone else get ahead if they need help. 

[Mewi]

2 hours ago, GodOfEntity said:

On that note. The people that want a wipe of the server. - Why? Is there something you need help farming? Let me know I will try to farm it with you. 

I fully appreciate your position, and understand why you feel the way you do and I also recognise that Rednim have stated that there will not be any wipes.

But there's nothing to otherwise stop those who are profiting off of bugs and abuses that are being kept tight for obvious reason.
We are looking at more than trillions of zulie circulating. Where did that kind of volume come from exactly? Even with your example of the 'farmers' - you cited "3,600,000,0000,0000" (which I'm sure is an error) Is meant to be 360 Trillion Zulie?
C'mon, that's unreasonable without any kind of scripting/botting/mass account automation.

This sets an awful precedent, and with how things currently sit - those at the top will have a much easier time in doing so (permitting they dont get banned) than the rest of us will have a chance of getting lucky or 'playing the market' to a degree where we'll make a profit that's worth something.

A server wipe stands to serve more than just an economy-correcting purpose, but maybe that's deserving of further elaboration in the existing thread.

[mindtheblob]

I, too, strongly suggest the developer team to take a deep look into the source of these zulie. There has been a 100-200% price spike in a week in a stage of the game where you would expect the zulie sinks of refining (and to some extent crafting*) to match the gains of any npc sold items is suspicious to say the least.

Sure many players are already at a point where they are happy with their gear and any generated zulie tends to flow into circulation but the changes we are seeing as of late compared to the relatively stable month we had before that is both unexpected and worrying. 

* Crafting health and mana, and max stats actively destroys zulie. I estimate having destroyed 400m into max stat crafts, for example.

[GodOfEntity]

18 hours ago, Mewi said:

I fully appreciate your position, and understand why you feel the way you do and I also recognise that Rednim have stated that there will not be any wipes.

But there's nothing to otherwise stop those who are profiting off of bugs and abuses that are being kept tight for obvious reason.
We are looking at more than trillions of zulie circulating. Where did that kind of volume come from exactly? Even with your example of the 'farmers' - you cited "3,600,000,0000,0000" (which I'm sure is an error) Is meant to be 360 Trillion Zulie?
C'mon, that's unreasonable without any kind of scripting/botting/mass account automation.

This sets an awful precedent, and with how things currently sit - those at the top will have a much easier time in doing so (permitting they dont get banned) than the rest of us will have a chance of getting lucky or 'playing the market' to a degree where we'll make a profit that's worth something.

A server wipe stands to serve more than just an economy-correcting purpose, but maybe that's deserving of further elaboration in the existing thread.

Basically,  Approx. 100 people farming zullies for 3 months straight, 80 of those people cashing out. 30 remaining to stay. 

Most of the accounts being sold as completely empty, so that zullies can be sold separately. 
What we're seeing is the results of a final sell off of zullies and accounts by RMT. 

While I am not completely dismissing that duping zullies could have happened.

I am simply arguing that simply doing the math on how much zully was likely farmed by a LARGE group of people min-maxing zullie farming for 3 months, this is the result of the final sell off. 

I'm also not sure of my position on how I feel about this sort of thing happening.
I'm not trying to say this is bad for the game or this is good for the game.
I don't understand enough of all the situations of everything to damn people.

"Ay, I like facts, I don't like assumin'" -NF 

(Also not shedding light on this to argue the right or wrong of this, just trying to spotlight where the zullies could have came from) 

Edited March 31, 2023 by GodOfEntity

[Kid]

its obviously rmt thats destabilizing the economy just for an example in discord market someone is selling krawfy king medallion for 1.5b lol. who in their right mind would buy that for that price

[zyk]

Hope there will be a stabilizer for the Economy. Or some things are just easy to obtain and farm when you reached the max out level. 

There are so many factors to look at. 

But I think, it's better for devs to look at the zulie flow in players. 

[Mr Suit]

Farming of Lisents back in NA Rose was super easy in COU dungeon. Since they introduced the alloys in the drop table in COU dg, the drop rate is divided into Lisents and Reinforcement alloys. Also the drop costumes back then gave a huge difference (100% extra drop chance for the costume set alone and 100% Exp rate bonus) and the premium service which also gave 100% extra drop chance and exp rate, so total of 200% drop chance on that bonus. When i played in NA Rose, I never farmed lisents in Turak. I also agree that the zulies in the current game is suspicious given that the lisents being sold is used to upgrade the items thus burning the zulies. The following i can only suggest to farm those Lisents:

a. Remove the reinforcement allows in the drop table in COU

b. Bring back the extra drop chance in costumes and release the premium item service. 

It is a win win situation for both players and the Devs. Players wont rely on people doing RMT. 

Probably people who played back in NA Server would agree to my suggestion. 

Im already tired of the F2P ideals in this server. We cant attract new players to play the game given the current state of the game economy. 

[GodOfEntity]

37 minutes ago, Jonatz said:

a. Remove the reinforcement allows in the drop table in COU

 --- Plz no. lol. 
That stuff is where I make zullies. 

37 minutes ago, Jonatz said:

Farming of Lisents back in NA Rose was super easy in COU dungeon.

It' still is now! ... Oh man it seems I need to make a video or stream this.... But, this is what I have right now for refine materials. 

^that is literally like 4 days of farming.  (If you think I should have farmed more than that in 4 days, you're out of your mind. This material is SUPPOSED to be rare) 

37 minutes ago, Jonatz said:

Im already tired of the F2P ideals in this server. We cant attract new players to play the game given the current state of the game economy. 

Your idea of attracting players back to the game. Is to take away the main reason players came back to the game in the first place? And adding pay to win features? 

Say hi to me in game, maybe we can throw together a group, I can show you how easy Lisent U farming is now. 

Edited April 2, 2023 by GodOfEntity

[Mr Suit]

Lisent Us cannot be considered as rare as of this moment. The rate of farming the lisents in Turak is just different from farming in dungeons. You can still see players selling more than two stacks, how can we consider that as rare? It is just my opinion.

[Forestwithin]

22 hours ago, GodOfEntity said:

It' still is now! ... Oh man it seems I need to make a video or stream this.... But, this is what I have right now for refine materials. 

^that is literally like 4 days of farming.  (If you think I should have farmed more than that in 4 days, you're out of your mind. This material is SUPPOSED to be rare) 

Is this from one character or multiple? 

[GodOfEntity]

6 hours ago, Forestwithin said:

Is this from one character or multiple? 

One Character.  (Technically five are farming the DG, but this is my rewards) 
 

14 hours ago, Jonatz said:

Lisent U's cannot be considered as rare as of this moment. The rate of farming the lisents in Turak is just different from farming in dungeons. You can still see players selling more than two stacks, how can we consider that as rare? It is just my opinion.

I've yet to actually go on a Turak run. So I'm not exactly sure how much Lisent U per Turak run gets. But I've heard that when you get lucky in a CoU clear run, it's better than Turak. 

Edited April 3, 2023 by GodOfEntity