enhancements Ammunition Slots

[Rebus]

I don't really understand the point of having three different ammunition slots. I can't think of a scenario where all three (or even just two) would be used. Would be nice to have just one general Ammo slot and the game taking care of the rest.

[Avatar]

I completely agree! The only time I see all 3 being of any use is when people just want to have fun in TG and use all the weapons. Which is almost never. 
 

Would you just want to make just one slot for all ammo and erase the other two, or would you repurpose the other two for something else? 

[Rebus]

5 hours ago, Avatar said:

Would you just want to make just one slot for all ammo and erase the other two, or would you repurpose the other two for something else? 

I didn't really contemplate using them for anything else, but it's certainly an option. For now, I would just reshuffle all of the slots slighty. The team mentioned wanting to redo some of the windows anyways and what inventory (which is attached to the character equipment) is going to look like is still undecided as far as I am aware.

 

Maybe the stats and inventory could be combined into one window as an exmample.

Or slightly wider with the same row number as before:

Or even wider to reduce the vertical space the window is taking up:

[Bobbity]

Speaking as an arti, if your only role in the party is luring then it's (currently) MUCH EASIER keeping stocked on arrows than it is bullets or shells. I can literally craft arrows in my sleep from stuff I find on the floor in almost any map. In fact, I have crafted arrows in my sleep. I cannot do the same for bullets and shells. So, currently, there's a need to keep bullets/shells and arrows separate. Until we can make more basic types of bullets and shells or artis don't lure anymore, that need will remain.  

 

With regards to the different UI layouts, why not all 3+?

Edited August 1, 2022 by Bobbity

[Guppi]

I do not entirely agree with the merging of those 3 slots. I can imagine that while walking around showing off your costumes/uniques (something I don't do as I have nothing to show off with ), it is nice to switch weapons and be able to immediately use it without also having to change the ammo.

In addition, it is also nice to carry other ammo without having it take up a slot in your already quite limited inventory space, e.g. when you are delivering higher quality arrows to a new player/char (argument only applies if inventory space would not be revisited).

With regard to the set up of the slots, I think the current is quite logic. I am a fan of other optional set ups but would stick with a very logical one as default, meaning that e.g. the hat/face is somewhere above, the body in the middle, shoes below, etc.

[Zeror]

OK, wild idea. Just remove ammunition completely and just have unlimited ammo. Not having to buy/craft ammo anymore. The ammo effects can be added to the weapons instead. Then those 3 slots can be removed from the UI.

Just think about this: What's the joy of constantly needing to walk back to town to buy ammo?

Edited August 9, 2022 by Zeror

[Bobbity]

You're right that going back to town to restock on ammo isn't for everyone. 

I rather enjoy crafting ammo. If the entire supply chain started from basic loot all the way up, using coal, white powder and so on added to iron and other metals (with different metals and metal rarities used for different types of ammo applying different USEFUL effects) then I'd enjoy it even more. Crafters like to craft. I'll likely make a separate suggestion on this point later. Remember, Tony Stark didn't stop at Mark 1, he made a solution for every problem he'd face.

 

 

EDIT: Never mind, I already posted about this.

Edited August 11, 2022 by Bobbity
Forgot I already posted about this.

[Avatar]

On 8/8/2022 at 11:00 AM, Zeror said:

OK, wild idea. Just remove ammunition completely and just have unlimited ammo. Not having to buy/craft ammo anymore. The ammo effects can be added to the weapons instead. Then those 3 slots can be removed from the UI.

Just think about this: What's the joy of constantly needing to walk back to town to buy ammo?

To add to this, if small people are able to run around, breathe under water, and throw blue/red/lightning out of their body in some way, shape, or form, then surely there could be such a thing as magic bullets/arrows that’s created by the character - which in turn would mean no more purchasing ammo/arrows. 

Edited August 11, 2022 by Avatar

[Bobbity]

I mean, sure... we're demigods. By that notion we might as well not have elemental affinities, different ways of crafting weapons or armor or anything except straight damage attacks. We'd undo a decade of ROSE development. More complexity = more adversity = more attachment / engagement.

 

One of my most treasured memories from ROSE Online was soloing Goblin Caves B2 in a race against the clock: facing both server restart and the expiration of my medal I had to deal with a never-ending swarm of goblins while at the same time crafting bullets (for EXP and to restock my ammo).  I value being able to resupply myself from my own loot. I'd like to do that more.

 

[Avatar]

Why wouldn’t we be able to have elemental affinities, exactly? Lol. Because you’d be able to shoot magical arrows/bullets that wouldn’t require you to restock? 

[Bobbity]

I'm saying these are all extras we've layered in top of the base mechanics for a more enjoyable experience. I'm not against some magic gun/magic bow with magic infinite ammo but there must be some constraint placed upon it. Otherwise we're just playing Quake Arena or something.

[Ashura]

11 hours ago, Bobbity said:

You're right that going back to town to restock on ammo isn't for everyone. 

I rather enjoy crafting ammo. If the entire supply chain started from basic loot all the way up, using coal, white powder and so on added to iron and other metals (with different metals and metal rarities used for different types of ammo applying different USEFUL effects) then I'd enjoy it even more. Crafters like to craft. I'll likely make a separate suggestion on this point later. Remember, Tony Stark didn't stop at Mark 1, he made a solution for every problem he'd face.

 

 

EDIT: Never mind, I already posted about this.

I use to love crafting poison ammo in eldeon those thorns were lifesavers. The only problem i had was with the gunpowder packet and powder, the packet wasnt used for much in crafting so no need to actually utilize it.

[Bobbity]

*thinks back fondly to those sharp thorns* Yeah, that was good stuff.

If the devs implement my landmines suggestion then low-level dealers will have a greater need for gunpowder packets, even gunpowder itself - they'll end up being more useful as a result. Fingers crossed, then.

In fact, maybe the ammo slots thing should be more modular; the player can select a 1 slot UI, 2-slot UI, even have a grenades and landmines slot in the UI.

[DoubleRose]

On 8/8/2022 at 12:00 PM, Zeror said:

OK, wild idea. Just remove ammunition completely and just have unlimited ammo. Not having to buy/craft ammo anymore. The ammo effects can be added to the weapons instead. Then those 3 slots can be removed from the UI.

Just think about this: What's the joy of constantly needing to walk back to town to buy ammo?

Maybe just make the weakest types of ammo infinite since they cost zero zulie anyway. 

[Bobbity]

 

11 minutes ago, DoubleRose said:

Maybe just make the weakest types of ammo infinite since they cost zero zulie anyway. 

I don't remember them costing zero zulie back in the day and I doubt they'd cost that much on full release. However, that sounds like a decent idea if crafted ammo was the only other ammo-type, could apply effects (DEF DOWN, slow, DoT, elemental affinity etc.) and dealt significantly more damage. More bang for your buck, as it were. It's all about margins, you guys.  Starter pack: free. Upgrade pack will cost ya.

 

For those crying about free ammo, clerics have free ranged magical damage auto-attack. 

[Zeror]

14 hours ago, Bobbity said:

 

I don't remember them costing zero zulie back in the day and I doubt they'd cost that much on full release. However, that sounds like a decent idea if crafted ammo was the only other ammo-type, could apply effects (DEF DOWN, slow, DoT, elemental affinity etc.) and dealt significantly more damage. More bang for your buck, as it were. It's all about margins, you guys.  Starter pack: free. Upgrade pack will cost ya.

 

For those crying about free ammo, clerics have free ranged magical damage auto-attack. 

Having auto-attack cost zero ammo, but abilities does cost ammo might be a good solution to this perhaps.

[Bobbity]

 Why is it we always come up with weirdlogic solutions to simple problems? Let's see, so far we've got:

• infinite ammo
• make ammo free again
• make basic ammo free but higher-grade ammo craftable-only and really cool
•  infinite ammo for auto-attacks but not for skills

 Let me add more so we don't lose sight of why we're worrying about ammo:

• make crafting ammo really cheap and easy
• make the ammo UI slots map to different types of ammo defined by the player, not dedicated arrow/bullet/shells slots

 

Basically, the following:

1. Make farming either gunpowder packets reliable and easy or establish a recipe (given to you when you get your first job) of gunpowder + cloth = gunpowder packets.
2. Make knowing how to craft gunpowder packets not be a waste of skill points and time. This should be the build-up to many useful things we use to progress. (Reference here to my landmines and grenades suggestion)
3. The UI now has to display different types of 'ammo' - bullets, shells, grenades, landmines. For bow/xbow users, this could be different types of arrows (ones with elemental affinities, explosive arrows etc.)

 

Remember, it's about the UI display.

I reckon we nudge crafters towards crafting ammo for the DPS and effects benefits by making it so much easier and a more profitable use of their time and skill points. If we take away the crutches of Hunter and Warrior summons and make everything about crafting (e.g. crafting a stationary turret, a mobile turret, mini-Castle Gear etc.) then the Dealer should have more skill points available to spend on crafting. This will hold true even for the Hawker and cross-bow Knight in a different way and to a lesser extent. 

I'm against Dealers getting anything for free; their whole class is about balance. 'Take what you want and pay for it.' Dealers always pay their debts, which is why they get to craft crazy stuff; they've earned that right. (I'll likely post another suggestion on this later.)

 

[DoubleRose]

I like the "weirdlogic" solutions because ammo is fun with tradeoffs and layers of depth. Any type of bullet in the chamber means a different type isn't being fired, so a shot is never free. Ammo should have lots of decisions and opportunity costs because that's something dealers will enjoy compared to other classes. Complexity requires being eased into. The basic bullets should be super simple and cheap. Dealers just starting out or looking to farm will use the lowest grade bullets, but they won't exclusively use the budget bullet once they see what the other bullets can do. Bobbity is right to point that the transition should be made easier with changes to skills, material availability, and UI.

Depending on how hard to code, I'd be all for adding crazy types of bullets (probably pvm oriented so dealer classes aren't insanely overpowered in pvp) such as one that applies a stockpile effect to an enemy on hit, or one that makes mobs take double damage from summons. That could be complemented with some skill that does an attack and then switches equipment to another type of bullet.

 

 

[Zeror]

On 8/16/2022 at 12:37 AM, Bobbity said:

 Why is it we always come up with weirdlogic solutions to simple problems? Let's see, so far we've got:

• infinite ammo
• make ammo free again
• make basic ammo free but higher-grade ammo craftable-only and really cool
•  infinite ammo for auto-attacks but not for skills

 Let me add more so we don't lose sight of why we're worrying about ammo:

• make crafting ammo really cheap and easy
• make the ammo UI slots map to different types of ammo defined by the player, not dedicated arrow/bullet/shells slots

Here is another one.

• Ammo-system automatically reloads ammo of the same type. Not just per stack. If you have 10 stacks of bullets. The ammo slot shows 9990 (10 x 999) bullets.

[Bobbity]

That's all good and I support that but have we actually come to a proper conclusion regarding the ammo slots UI suggestion Rebus proposed?

[Zeror]

8 hours ago, Bobbity said:

That's all good and I support that but have we actually come to a proper conclusion regarding the ammo slots UI suggestion Rebus proposed?

I still go for removing ammo from the game. I played World of Warcraft for long time beside ROSE. WoW removed ammo from the game in 2010 when their 3rd expansion Cataclysm released. They wanted to replace the ammo system with something that would be more a compelling element of game-play. When that didn't work out, they removed the ammo completely and the classes that uses the ammo didn't have get ammo again for their ranged weapons. It surely did improve the game if you ask me.

In Rose ammo can be removed too and just have 'unlimited ammo'. The ammo visual effects can be added to the weapons itself or the different kind of ammo's could be changed into costume-options instead So you can still swap out different visual effects.

[Bobbity]

But muh gunpowder... 

 

Seriously though, the fewer reasons for crafting stuff with gunpowder, the weaker each use case becomes and the more rigid the meta. I definitely feel there's a place for free and infinite ammo, just not sure the time has come. 

 

EDIT: On the other hand, removing ammo crafting frees up a few skill points... 

Edited August 18, 2022 by Bobbity

[DoubleRose]

3 hours ago, Bobbity said:

On the other hand, removing ammo crafting frees up a few skill points... 

Ammo crafting could be tied to certain other skills or unlocked without a skill point cost when specific character levels are reached.

[Bobbity]

I wonder what the knock-on effects of just 'freely' unlocking skills would be... 

[Zeror]

Got another idea.

What if we would have a seperate ammo bag? The ammo we use takes space in our bags that non-range classes don't struggle with. So it seems fair we get our own ammo bag instead. The amount of space of the ammo bag can be defined by the Back gear we wear, but by default you should have like 4 slots (no matter what class you are, cause this not something that should be restricted to certain classes. Muses can use bows too if they like. ). Backbags can be adjusted so they can add a couple extra slots, a new quiver back gear can be introduced with extra slots, etc..

In addition you get auto-reload as well. This means that as long you have the same ammo (type AND quality) it will be automatically reloaded if a stack is depleted.

In the UI the three different ammo types will be combined to one ammo slot as suggested by Rebus. Also there will be new button to open this ammo bag to see the contents.