More Feedback From A Returning Player

[TheBlueEyedKing]

This will be quite long/extensive. Most of it has probably been covered before by other people, but these have just been my personal experiences. Hence, EVERYTHING IN THIS IS AN OPINION.

I will cover changes I liked, didn't like, and just things I see as fundamental problems.

I ended up making a little list as I went through the game.. Before I inserted initial experiences as a returning player/level 65 muse with some other lower level characters, but now I am level 205 cleric and have leveled several other characters as well. Not that this is any great accomplishment, but either way I wanted to give more impressions.

So far, my biggest overall complaint/feeling with this game is.. it can be fun, but it never feels like the output matches the input of time/effort.

I apologize if any of this comes off as pretentious or rude. I promise that is not my intent.

Index.

1. Support muse outclassed by a max level cleric due to buffs/heals/flames in groups.
2. Too many drops/junk. No way to sort.
3. Not enough storage because too many drops/junk.
4. Refining is useless for lower levels/too expensive
5. Food/Drink/HP/MP orbs.
6. Skills/Weakness/Power creep
7. Kings/Drop rates
8. Botting
9. Cars suck
10. Most zones missed/unused.
11. Just some minor issues and quality of life things

12. Things I thought were cool/liked!

Ending.

So I replied in another similar thread about

1. my support muse/cleric being useless since the changes and I understand to an extent why the buff changes were needed, but at the same time it has changed absolutely nothing. Pretty much every place I went in the game to level people were dragging around their max level clerics for heals due to other fundamental issues in the game. The heal bots were needed. I understand why they changed it, because previously playing without buffs made you feel like a weak paper towel with 100 movespeed, and playing with them made you feel like a demigod. However, the changes completely destroyed the need for lower level muses since you can just group a cleric for heals/buffs/flames either way. They wanted to prevent buff bots but got heal bots instead. Some people had the great idea of respecing to aoe in parties and adapting to what they need.. I found this to be response sad because it failed to even acknowledge that their was a problem in the first place with a class being made completely obsolete. Some also suggested that it's no big deal because a free respec is offered in the item mall skill tabs which.. again, pretty much denies that there is a fundamental problem with a class being made absolutely useless by grouped max level clerics. I know this has been tirelessly talked about, but I felt that pain most of the way up until level 200. Oh, and my lower level heals completely sucked too, it's not too bad near max except the horribly disgusting icons, and you can't tell which heals are which because they are wayyyyyy too similar. (see screenshot).

The idea here isn't that I want it to be changed back or anything, just that it is a problem and if somebody had told me that this is required or heavily suggested in another game.. I would instantly mock it up to awful design and quit. It's not worth the hassle. This being an older game, but still in progress of new development, and because I have nostalgia in my heart I gave it a pass. Point being.. I play games to have fun and respecing my class because it's useless, isn't fun. I didn't want to bring this part up again because so many people have.. but it ties into a point I will make later. (#6)

2. Also mentioned in another thread.. the loot/drops situation is absolutely bonkers. All the way up to 205 I had no idea what was junk and what was for crafting. I know a bit from having played previously and looking in the buy section of shops, but ultimately I ended up storing a bunch of stuff that I had no idea was junk drops that were added into the game to replace zulie box drops. I don't understand the argument that zulie drops added inflation, well they do, but so do the junk drops.. so it's just more of a PITA but the same issue? I mean.. every game has an added influx of currency, so I don't really get that argument. Either way, it made storage and inventory management suck, and just added to overall confusion. I brought a new player with me when I started and they couldn't figure anything out as there was no tutorials for it. The solutions presented to me were to go look at a forum guide or a website that had been tailored to sort the craftable stuff. Again, awful solutions to fundamental issues even if they were doing their best to help. I would never expect that of a new player in a game. I am not saying everything needs to be labeled as craftable or junk, but clearly something needs to be done. I did all the quests and sold what I could at lower levels but felt like I barely had enough for my basic gear/food/drink/and the enormous storage costs. Even after I started selling the junk. Not that I am too dumb to understand complex things (Although probably not far off), but sometimes the best solution is often the simplest one.

3. Sort of coming in from #2 is the amount of/materials in the game in general. I don't want to have to make multiple accounts or spend $100 for extra storage but it feels like a requirement. The amount of dirty items/refining runes/catalysts/gear/everything.. it's ok to have a lot of items.. but if you unbox any dirty stuff for a crafter you will have absolutely no space immediately.

4. Refining/upgrading If somebody goes to refine an item without a tutorials or instruction, the entire experience SUCKS. I have done it before so it isn't no big deal.. but it just seems soo involved for such a small amount of increase. Especially for lower levels. Refining is UNGODLY expensive and useless for lower levels. The amount of increase you get vs how much it costs is absolutely insane. It seems much of the game is tailored for max level people... which I understand since I am guessing it is most likely a ton of older players (just a baseless assumption), but still. If this isn't explained to a new player.. they might dump all the zulie they made (lets say 60k) into a lvl 25 weapon to get.. 4 more attack power. That is dumb, but how will they know any better?

5. I think the HP/MP orbs are terrible and they should be removed. I think they are currently needed as a result of other issues in the game. Mainly food and drink being complete garbage. They also share a round of loot for some reason. How lost count of how many times I was tanking on my soldier, went to go get a hp orb to hopefully save some of my expensive food.. and it goes to my friend who is at full hp because loot is on even share. If you are soloing as a lower level character, they can be nice. I think the reason they feel nice is.. well as I just stated.. food sucks. Like.. really bad. I am not saying food/potions should replace a cleric completely.. but funnily enough.. isn't that what it is suppose to be used for?

I actually love the concept of eating food and drink to replenish and think it adds charm to the game. Same with sitting increasing regen rates. It's neat.

6. Skill points/overall weakness/power creep - This one is probably a little controversial, but what if passives only cost one point? In the lower levels I felt like I had to specialize to kill a mob before it killed me (nonstop chuggin food) or to build tanky, but take 30 years to kill it. I don't think it would really make or break any class, but rather flush them out and make them feel better. Is my cleric somebody that can do some autoattacks/a couple magic attack skills/heals/summons? Or do I have to completely spec into one of these things? The idea that there are multiple sub-builds inside of a class seems super weird to me. I feel like it detracts from the identity of the class. My two handed soldier had to put everything into attack passives to feel strong enough along with his skills and still felt weak. Somebody give me a free unique reaper sword for free. I ended up crafting a reinforced armor set, refining it all to level 5 for him but it STILL didn't feel great. Not to mention it will all be replaced so quickly in the future. It doesn't feel worth it for the amount of effort I put in.

No matter what, it feels like a cleric is always needed, which is true. Go to kenji beach, max level cleric/heals pretty much needed, luna bears, penguin king spot, xita repeatables.. most of the time you need those heals because food is so weak. Even with reinforced gear you get smacked down pretty quick. Not sure what the solution to this is. (Needed is a probably the wrong word, but I have played all 4 classes and none of them feel very strong vs current level mobs. I can kill them, but it just feels like I have a 25% debuff to all stats at all times) Maybe it's just me. Idk.

My level 205 cleric I have to reskill 200 skill points to be able to kill basic mobs, or to go back to full support healing again. I don't think that if passives were one point it would make any class overpowered, but everybody else probably has more experience with this than I do. It just sucks being 45 levels from 250 and thinking... oh... I won't be able to touch most of my other skills/passives anyways, but again, I always have hated min-maxing with hyper specific builds so this is probably something that pertains to me more than others as a whole.

I mean if there are sub-builds for classes.. why not branch it off into a third job change? The current system makes you feel like you have to choose one or the other because you do... I don't really see the downside. Every class shouldn't be able to do everything proficiently, but it shouldn't feel like you don't even get to explore the other half of a skill tree either I think. /shrug. Just feels punishing and limiting.

As a cleric, I have two summon mastery skills, and there is another unique book for even more summon mastery. I found it absolutely comical that I had literally 20 levels of skill points dedicated to the summon mastery skills. lol.

It might not seem like much but I think that could go a long way to making classes feel stronger without a cleric constantly hovering over them for heals.

There is probably so much in this topic that it probably deserves it's own thread because I don't think it is a particular class is super weak or strong.. I have seen clerics solo bosses, I have seen a claw hawker solo the T-REX boss earlier today with very minimal effort.

7. This is probably a good place to continue on the previous kings/drop rates discussion that I mentioned in the idea thread awhile back. They are impossible at lower levels and soloed at higher levels. This feels so weird because the experience and loot is garbage. I said that it seems like a good idea to increase the drop rate or have a drop for each individual on the loot table. Anything else than the current system.

I have leveled up to 205 and have seen a lot of bosses go down by this point. I haven't seen a single good drop from one yet.. throughout the ENTIRE game.

Some peoples response to this was that bosses should be hard.. and I agree, yet I saw a hawker solo a giant T-REX boss earlier with ease.. and still I have not seen a single good drop since I started the game. On 5 characters, one of them all the way to 205.

I still stand by it is absolutely not worth it. (When I say this, I don't mean that you will never get any rare item and it is not worth killing it because they will never drop something amazing. I mean it is not worth the IMMENSE TIME INVESTMENT of the AVERAGE person because of the chances of you getting something good are so astronomically low). You can do something better with your life. It's like playing the lottery.. you spend time and money getting lottery tickets and hoping you might win regardless of what you put in.. when one of the lottery odds are 1 in 302,575,350. Some people still do it. Does that mean they will never win? Of course not. Anything is possible. Is it worth it for the average person to put their time, effort, and money into this system? No. I am sure the hardcore farmers feel its worth it... but for the average joe? You can probably beat 5 other single player fantasy games in the same amount of time it will take you to get something here. On the off chance you group up with people and do take on a boss and it does drop something good, well congrats, have fun fighting for it on FFA or getting unlucky on round robin when it goes to your dead afk party member.

Some people had said something along the lines that I have to itemize for drop rate and slot in drop rate gems.. the fact that something like that is even in the game made me want to throw up. Seriously?!? Do people really have that much time on their hands to slave away for days killing bosses like this and hoping to get something? I could never.. but again, this is probably just a difference in expectations/playstyles. Personally.. if I devote time and effort into something, I expect to get something out of my hard work. Maybe not the first or second time, but if I devote hours and hours and get nothing? I don't know.. seems like I would rather not do that. As somebody said to me, patience is a virtue.. yeah, I get that.. but at the same time I can't take those elven/dark items and trade it back in for real life time lol. I have played countless other games and have never seen anything akin to this. Again, maybe I am just a big baby and disgruntled. Either way, I haven't seen a positive result from a single king all the way up to level 205. I think that is patient enough, isn't it?

8. Speaking of time... botting! I have seen this as a common complaint and wonder why it's always worded so harshly, yet so prevalent in the game. I remember a thread I was reading of a guy that was making complaints and down the thread he mentioned using three clients, completely unrelated to what he was asking about, and the response was akin to something like, "Wow... so you really just admitted that is a BANNABLE OFFENSE" He stated that the rules were not really clearly stated in the game, he is right. (I couldn't care less because I only run one client because I am too old to care about dual boxing. Regardless.. I find it hilarious when you can see evidence of this.. EVERYWHERE. lol. I saw these guys in a particular clan, won't mention who but lets just say I wouldn't be surprised if their leader is Smitty Werbenjagermanjensen (lol), in sikuku underground prison sitting there for like 10+ hours not saying a word.. Come back and like 9 guys are dead on the ground. Do you really have me believe that 4-5  players just decided to.. idk, fall asleep at the same time at the keyboard? I might be a fool but... seems to me like the stance is strong, but in reality no care is given whatsoever. People can bot/farm/do whatever they want. Do repeat zulie quests. Become the overlords by breaking the rules. Nobody will care.

9. This one makes me a bit sad..but cars suck sooo badly. I mean... SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO badly. Mounts are infinitely better. They are ABSURDLY faster, take no fuel.. yeah you get knocked off when hit.. but you don't get hit when moving at 999999 ms. Cars used to be part of the charm of this game and now they are are so useless and slow and any other cart other than the basic wooden one is pretty much unreachable. I used to have a white meister cart with a steel seat, and rocket boosters on either side. It was cool man. It was unique. nowadays nobody bothers to even get a cart because it sucks so badly. Once I got the dog at lvl 200 I realized why. You die driving in carts bc defense is literally like 200. No stats from skills, removes buffs, no armor hp increases, its slow. I had one of these turtles in fossil sanctuary hit me for 2.1k damage driving by.. no crit either. I died a few times getting to the dinos.. but man once I got the dog mount? absolutely insane..  Literally 10x the benefits with none of the drawbacks except one. (Falling off when hit). I remember seeing a post regarding the low defense of carts.. and somebody responded saying "oh they each have their own pros and cons" are you kidding? like you must be joking, right? I remember Carts used to be soo cool and having one was awesome. You can't even get a wooden seat anymore without 2-3mil zulie lol. They could have expanded on them they have been replaced so heavily its not even a contest. It's just sad imo. Every other game already has mounts. It just feels lame now. I am sure other people like it though so I am probably in the minority with this one.

10. I have seen this mentioned by a few people but the game started getting linear in the worst kind of way for leveling at some point. I didn't even visit half of the zones in the game it feels like. I had no reason to go to the desert of the dead or gorge of silence. During my entire time on Luna I only went to mana snowfields, and on Eldeon I went from xita, straight to prison. At 180 I went to orlo which is where I will be from 180-250... This could be seen as just a personal issue and some will say I COULD go to those other locations.. which is true. I could.. but I have no reason to. Why go from where other people are, leveling up and getting crazy money from quests to where there are no quests, no fast levels, no unique gear... it wouldn't feel rewarding. I already don't feel rewarded with so many other things in this game, at the very least I can feel rewarded with leveling and hanging out with people. I know the concept of the repeatable quests is being worked on.. but it just felt like I didn't even get to experience half of the game because there was no reason to. There aren't enough quest-lines (non repeatable of course), or rewards for exploration. I think with the current game state trying to spread it out too much wouldn't be a good idea because you would wind up many zones of the same level with less players.. which leads to feeling like a dead game. However, I think part of the joy of this game is being able to experience all it has to offer. I would have loved to feel the way on each planet like I did when I started from 1-50 on Junon

I remember HIGHLY praising the game for the level 1-50 areas.. the questline from adventure plains>Luxem tower>Zant>breezy hills (previously a skipped area due to the bridge to verloon being there), verloon desert, anima lake (could do a little more with this one, feel like it gets good but stops after you see half due to going to junon, and then getting to junon and it stops. Just becomes repeatbles. The flow of monsters and rewards from quests felt AMAZING up to this point. You get to be a part of every zone, every experience, it was fantastic. Whoever designed this part knew what they were doing. After that.. it falls apart. There is no more direction. The best thing to do is go to the blue clowns repeatable for experience and money, and then to kenji repeatable, bear/penguin repeatable.. and then xita repeatable.. it's awful and repetitive.. which is a shame because the first part was so brilliantly designed. Again, I am not saying I COULDN'T go to those other zones.. but again, this comes back to wanting to be rewarded for my time and effort. As I leveled up and did the quests earlier I felt like I helped npcs, partied with other players, saw new mobs, and was invested in the story. It was exceptional in every possible way! I am not sure the fix for this one as it's very complex to tackle without changing a lot of the games structure and leveled areas ... I am probably not smart enough or qualified enough to fix this.

11. Minor issues and quality of life things.

Not enough skill bars.. This might only relate to cleric but I am not sure.. but I would love to have the ability to create as many skill bars as we want. Cycling through them is clunky at best and unusable at worst. I want to put food/drink/scrolls/mounts/emotes.. whatever else I want on there. If I want more of them I should be able to add them.

Orlo feels unfinished...still. The portal zone is completely empty except the portal itself.. The golden ring feels pretty cool with the changes and the fossil sanctuary is pretty great as well.. The wasteland having two parts is ... weird.. and the wasteland path is weird too.. all of those zones feel desolate and like there is no reason/content in them except the minor quest objectives and bosses. Whoever designed the Ancient Oasis Shrine though... seriously? No, Seriously!?!?! (I know it probably wasn't any of the current developers but it is HOT GARBAGEEEEEEEEE) It just feels half done compared to the other planets imo. Also, Muris feels like a mess too.

Dalpings are too strong.
No, Seriously. Dalpings are soo freaking strong. Even with lvl 30 gear fully reinforced upgraded to level 5, a backshield, and a face item.. they hit too hard and are too aggro. I have seen more people die at dalpings than any other place in the game other than sikuku underground prison.

Unique weapons make most of the other weapons in the game obsolete. I never really liked them, but I know they are popular so I am probably in the minority on this one.

Quest limits .. why?

Groups/parties - Who doesn't love having two UI's and not knowing which one to use when you are a noob? I know the original purpose but really should have probably stuck with one. Or how we keep it? We can do groups, parties, raids, we can probably also have gatherings, assemblies, clumps? Let's just have 10 UIs and 10x invite buttons. Seemsgud. (Sorry a little salt here)

Can we make Candles/Flames smaller.. yes I know you can turn down particles in the settings.. but they are pretty overwhelming when you have 4/5 of them.

12. Things I like!

The skills that give you additional effects! Like dealers increase in attackspeed after 10 hits, that is pretty cool! There are also lots of other classes that have things like that. I think expanding each class like that to feel unique is always a plus.

As I said before, the questline between 0-50 and linear direction was stellar. (Perfect because at 50 you can get the car if you enjoy getting blown out of the water by mounts) haha.

The community, Most of the people have been really cool/helpful/nice. It was generally pleasant in every party I was in with people.

The music has always been top tier.

Ending: Basically a lot of this has been covered by other people before and is going to just sound like I am disgruntled and hate the game... I don't think that is entirely the case and I tried to be fair with my assessment of a lot of things, but bias will be something that always exists and everything I said has been my personal opinion.

This game has always been dear to my heart but the current experience has been disappointing at many turns. On one hand I loved partying and meeting the people I have played with.. on the other hand their has been so many mechanics that beat me down as a new (returning) player that make the experience feel unrewarding. I am not sure what changes will come in the future but so far I feel like I went through the game and had some fun leveling up. Missed out on a lot of the zones due to design choices. I felt like strength was behind the wall of a billion zulie without any way for me to catch up.

I remember when I was playing other mmorpgs and I needed to be strong, there was always a questline, or dungeons I could run to get gear that made me feel like I always had something to work towards. With many of the zones being skipped and levels flying by with optimal leveling/questing locations.. none of that stuff ever felt needed. I always had a max level cleric nearby with heals so why bother?

Overall, I will probably keep playing for a time just to meet some new people and have fun leveling other job classes... but I will never spend days farming valor for gear and then spending 5 billion zulie to max it out on refining/durability/slots/gems/godknows what else or make farming builds to have a 1/10 chance on a 1/5000 chance (or whatever the absurd loot table is, lol.) to continue playing.

Again, this has all been my personal experience and I am not intending to put anybody down or hurt anybodys feelings. I know I can be quite harsh and some of the stuff I have said might sound absolutely dumb or absurd to other people and that is ok.

I think we are all here to have a good time and I appreciate everybody who has helped me, explained to me, partied with me, and whatever else you did with me along the way.

Thanks again for the good memories and I hope to see you all in game until we move on to the next adventure!

[kaiserkiva]

You’ve pretty much summed up the rose online experience of this current version. I think the majority of players have had similar experience in their levelling phase of their first character. I personality struggled on my first main character as when I reached max level I only had 2m zullies which is quite sad. I joined at the time went there was an influx of zullies due to the 20m quest in Orlo. Even though there is so much zullie last year, players levelling their first char are poor and struggling. This is still the same now even after the nerf of the quest to 2m. Everyone is just equally poorer but the poor will stay poorer (kinda sounds like normal society lol). Why am I mentioning this? Because zullie is one of the resource that helps you with the levelling phase by buying pots, refining and traversing around the maps. If you are poor and lacking zullie you will struggle as you’re character is weak early. I think it would not be good to introduce more zullie creation at early levels as this will create another zullie inflation like what happened year. Nerfing mobs clearly should  not be done as older and more experienced players will just monopolise the game even more. 

When I read your post, the main big problem isn’t really about zullie  but rather the characters (especially muses) being too weak. I think one big solution to this is to earn more skill points in early levels. Currently there are 250 skill points and earning 1 per level may seem reasonable and fair but it’s actually penalising lower level characters due to passives that require 2 skill points to learn. Passives are so important that they help your char with sustain healing/damage/defence stats that helps you with levelling. And choosing between having a passive and active skill is a hard choice. Obtaining only 1 sp per level just seems unfair imo. I think obtaining 2 skill points per level up to level 100 and 1 skill points per level after 100 should fix these underlying issues with levelling and killing bosses. With this change, all class especially muses/clerics would benefit from this the most as when the class turns level 100  they will have the same skill points as a current level 200 character. They will max out healing and other required passives to be a full support. If this is implemented I think there will be no need to rush to max as your character will be strong enough at level 100 and you can slowly explore other maps and kill mobs with ease. Also, as the SPs will all be used in level 150. There will be less requirement for players to do the gruelling levelling phase between level 160-180 and spamming the fossil quests. There will likely be more dungeons and more pvps at this point as the peak is already at mid levels. 

And as you say, until orlo is completely finished as well as other new content. There shouldn’t really be a reason to suffer from levelling and worrying too much about zullie. Exploration, progress and new experiences should be the focus of the  developers for new and former players to play the game.

My comments regarding the botting problem. I think it’s difficult to actually stop them from doing it. The only thing I can think of is more penalty when a character dies for example: losing 1 level after dying. Botters thrive because of only losing a few % experience points upon death. Having a large penalty will encourage them to be attentive and try their best not to die. I’ve also posted an idea of having a rose online hardcore mode. Maybe this is an alternative to the old easily exploited game. 

 

Overall, I agree with all your points. You kinda indirectly mentioned me on point 7 but ye, I guess there is a game genre preference there. But it was mentioned that drop tables will be worked on which is something to look forward to. And I heard rumours that will be a new a dungeon coming up soon. I just hope that more content will come in the next couple of months or this year in general before everyone loses interest in the game. Anyways, I would advise you to keep playing, learn about the game and play slow until full release. Until then, we should all be patient, keep calm and play some more Rose Online . See you in game. My IGN is shaws and zstark.

Edited March 24 by kaiserkiva

[HilariousFace]

1 hour ago, Seanos said:

1. Pretty much every place I went in the game to level people were dragging around their max level clerics for heals due to other fundamental issues in the game. The heal bots were needed.

This problem is extremely hard to deal with, it takes several layers of changes to the fundamental gameplay to fix this, but in the end it doesn't benefit the game as a whole. Because, let's be honest, this game has a large population of veterans and continue to do so in the following months/years, they can't make it where you need to take a year to get to Lv.250, it's extremely boring, repetitive and will make people leave. People are interested in leveling as fast as they could at the lowest risk, if you disable grouping from low levels to high levels, preventing low level from getting buffs and AOE heal, they will still be fine, as the most important thing keep lowbies alive is the sala flame. But, you can always walk away from those people who wish to maximize their leveling pace, you are not forced to indulge in leveling with the best setup. At level 100+, Clerics will do their cleric thing and put sala flame and heals. Not a huge issue IMO.

1 hour ago, Seanos said:

2. All the way up to 205 I had no idea what was junk and what was for crafting. I don't understand the argument that zulie drops added inflation. Either way, it made storage and inventory management suck, and just added to overall confusion. I brought a new player with me when I started and they couldn't figure anything out as there was no tutorials for it. The solutions presented to me were to go look at a forum guide or a website that had been tailored to sort the craftable stuff. I am not saying everything needs to be labeled as craftable or junk. I did all the quests and sold what I could at lower levels but felt like I barely had enough for my basic gear/food/drink/and the enormous storage costs.

I don't believe zulie drops was the cause of inflation, the current primary source of zulies influx is from 2m daily quest in Orlo planet, it was way worse before with the dog bone turn-in. And yes, they do need to label all mats into either craftable or junk. And they need to review the storage cost on items, some items have 0, some have too much.

2 hours ago, Seanos said:

but if you unbox any dirty stuff for a crafter you will have absolutely no space immediately.

They need to remove and merge most chemicals, such that it only needs one kind to fill the category of Uncommon, Rare, Very Rare, Epic only. But I'm not touching this subject, may be they actually need this clutter, so people will buy IM storage expansion.

2 hours ago, Seanos said:

4. Refining is UNGODLY expensive and useless for lower levels. The amount of increase you get vs how much it costs is absolutely insane. If this isn't explained to a new player.. they might dump all the zulie they made (lets say 60k) into a lvl 25 weapon to get.. 4 more attack power. That is dumb, but how will they know any better?

The protective parents way of looking at it is to give a level requirement to refining, so new players can't get screwed. And the free style do whatever you want, and feel free to screw yourself over way of looking at it, is well if a new player gets destroyed economically, they can always start over, they have relatively less time invested into the game than old players. You can always beg for financial assistance in junon, lots of players are willing to give you 1m for free. There are a lot of gameplay elements in this game that is tailored and balanced from the perspective from high level players, because if you make something so easy and powerful and rewarding for the low and new players, it doesn't mean the low new players will take it easy powerful and rewarding, it just translate to high level players smurfing and cosplay as new player to take advantage of the easy rewarding scheme of things.

2 hours ago, Seanos said:

5. How lost count of how many times I was tanking on my soldier, went to go get a hp orb to hopefully save some of my expensive food.. and it goes to my friend who is at full hp because loot is on even share.

Dev should take notes on this then, they need to make HP/MP orb on the floor to be free for all to loot for everyone.

  

2 hours ago, Seanos said:

6. Skill points/overall weakness/power creep - In the lower levels I felt like I had to specialize to kill a mob before it killed me (nonstop chuggin food) or to build tanky, but take 30 years to kill it. The idea that there are multiple sub-builds inside of a class seems super weird to me. I feel like it detracts from the identity of the class. My two handed soldier had to put everything into attack passives to feel strong enough along with his skills and still felt weak. I ended up crafting a reinforced armor set, refining it all to level 5 for him but it STILL didn't feel great. Not to mention it will all be replaced so quickly in the future. It doesn't feel worth it for the amount of effort I put in.

In the lower levels, I didn't bother much to kill mobs to level up, I breeze through to Lv.20 through those beginner quest, if a new player ran pass Arua's fairy, then RIP lol. And why is "multiple sub-builds inside of a class weird"? I thought it's a good thing to have diversity, so everyone's sword champ build are not identical. And regarding how your two handed sword soldier feel weak, you are right but I think we talked about this last time with you, there are some powerful Epic weapons and Exalted armor only at Lv.200+, the only thing that will make you feel powerful at sub-lv.200 is hardened weapons from Artisan, or Unique weapons from Epic drop and dungeons, none of these are accessible by any new players, they are reserved for experienced veterans. And the reinforced armors are very powerful in terms of survival compare to yellow armors, trust me and pay closer attention. Also, weapon makes you offensively better, armor makes you defensively better, just making sure. And another biggest reason why you feel weak, is because two handed soldier is indeed underpowered at the moment, all the Champion in this game currently are Spear champ, only the hipsters will go for 2 handed sword and Axe. So, try to play as spear to level up first, should feel better.

2 hours ago, Seanos said:

No matter what, it feels like a cleric is always needed, which is true. Go to kenji beach, max level cleric/heals pretty much needed, luna bears, penguin king spot, xita repeatables.. most of the time you need those heals because food is so weak. Even with reinforced gear you get smacked down pretty quick.

There is probably so much in this topic that it probably deserves it's own thread because I don't think it is a particular class is super weak or strong.. I have seen clerics solo bosses, I have seen a claw hawker solo the T-REX boss earlier today with very minimal effort.

This is a big problem indeed, the thing that keeps a party alive is Salamander flame, but as I said earlier no one wants a fair gameplay, everyone wants to get to max level as fast as they could. If we really have to push for a fair gameplay, then we will have to enforce Salamander flame to spits party healing over time so that low level cannot be kept alive by high level cleric. But you don't stop there, because no one will be able to level up, we also need to give the surviving capability back to the players themselves. We will have to bump up the PvM defense % on armors, and add PvM defense % on mask, jewelry, back item, or will have to decrease the AP on all mobs in the entire game, both routes are extremely tedious task. And we also need to make sure, we don't buff the bonfire, because you are repeating the same mistake again with the heavy reliance on Cleric.

And regarding the Clerics/Raider solo'ing bosses, it is because of those Lv.200 Epic weapon, Lv.220 Exalted armor, Lv.240 Brave/Courage armor, Malachite Marquise, Peridot Baguette, etc, all of these are power creep items.

2 hours ago, Seanos said:

7. Kings are impossible at lower levels and soloed at higher levels. This feels so weird because the experience and loot is garbage. I said that it seems like a good idea to increase the drop rate or have a drop for each individual on the loot table.

I have leveled up to 205 and have seen a lot of bosses go down by this point. I haven't seen a single good drop from one yet.. throughout the ENTIRE game.

The drop table is undergoing large revamp according to the developers, but it's been over a year, I don't see much change significantly, it is sad. Any kings that you don't see people camping, it means their loot is garbage. And any king that is camped 24/7 means they have interesting stuff.

And regarding how kings are impossible at low level but solo'd at high levels, is also the truth. Kings at low level for now if done correctly, should be ganged by a party. But kings at high level (not necessarily at high level but more like kings with good drops), in my opinion should be able to solo'd with heavy investment in equipment. The reason is because of my selfishness vs. my kindness, I have lost count on how many times where I ran into a situation where my party killed the king and it dropped nice thing like a gem, but quantity is 1, I don't know how to cut the gem into two halves. It is awkward if I take it to myself and I feel left out if I give everything away. So for kings that have good loot, it is better to be solo-able with the right strat, setup and equipment investment.

2 hours ago, Seanos said:

 7. Do people really have that much time on their hands to slave away for days killing bosses like this and hoping to get something? I could never.. but again, this is probably just a difference in expectations/playstyles. Personally.. if I devote time and effort into something, I expect to get something out of my hard work.

Wanna hear worse? There are players including me, who go out all the way spend on money on equipment and time to farm for a specific item, and slowly realized the item in question does not even exist in the game's database. Sometimes you get something out of an investment, sometimes you lost all the time on it, so don't overleverage, know when to stop digging a hole.

2 hours ago, Seanos said:

8. Speaking of time... botting! In sikuku underground prison sitting there for like 10+ hours not saying a word.. Come back and like 9 guys are dead on the ground. Do you really have me believe that 4-5  players just decided to.. idk, fall asleep at the same time at the keyboard?

They always say botting is bad, cheating, this and that. But I'm gonna join the dark side on this one. Don't blame the botters, blame the boring repetitive leveling game. If leveling is fun, challenging, rewarding, interactive, you would not see people do this.

2 hours ago, Seanos said:

9. This one makes me a bit sad..but cars suck sooo badly. I mean... SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO badly. Mounts are infinitely better. You die driving in carts bc defense is literally like 200. No stats from skills, removes buffs, no armor hp increases, its slow. I had one of these turtles in fossil sanctuary hit me for 2.1k damage driving by.. no crit either. I died a few times getting to the dinos.. but man once I got the dog mount? absolutely insane..  Literally 10x the benefits with none of the drawbacks except one. (Falling off when hit).

I think you neglacted the most important part of a cart, it's the steel backseat. When dual clienting, you need it. Of course, not the wooden one, you need the somewhat expensive one, they go for 1660-1690 mspeed. And regarding how it has no defense, you get knocked off if you go with mount, that's the trade off. If your clan don't have mount speed passive, it is only 1500 mspeed. Driving in Rubber Banctuary takes some skills, when you notice the mobs within your view range are lagged behind you, and your radius do not have mobs, it means on server side you are still far behind, press S on the keyboard to resync your location, so you are aware of what are hitting you.

2 hours ago, Seanos said:

11. Minor issues and quality of life things.

Not enough skill bars.. This might only relate to cleric but I am not sure.. but I would love to have the ability to create as many skill bars as we want. Cycling through them is clunky at best and unusable at worst. I want to put food/drink/scrolls/mounts/emotes.. whatever else I want on there. If I want more of them I should be able to add them.

Orlo feels unfinished...still.

Dalpings are too strong.

Unique weapons make most of the other weapons in the game obsolete. I never really liked them, but I know they are popular so I am probably in the minority on this one.

Are you enabling both the skill bar? Supposed to have 2 x 12 buttons. I also brought up the issue before, I remember I used to be able to use both the number keys below the F keys, and the F keys directly, so a total of 24 buttons. But they changed F1 , F2, F3 to target. And now you need to hold shift + number keys to execute the F keys skill bar. So every time I need to engage in serious combat where I will need to use the F keys skill bar, I have to enable my mouse side button bind to Shift, because I can't hit the shift key + number keys quickly.

Regarding Orlo being unfinished, ya early access game, so excusable.

Dalpings are strong? I don't know about that, I never level there as the quest hold my hands to Lv.20+. The Dalping leaders are magician type, and the Hunter Dalping is hunter type, that's why they are strong. But to me, I always find the Candle Ghost too strong.

Unique weapons are indeed strong, you are not the only minority. But precisely, only the unique weapon with Bold AP stat are strong, most of the time hardened Weapons are still better. Epic Lv.200 weapons though are power creep items, only Hardened Amazing Brush, or Hardened Widow Maker are worth it. They even make Lv.220 Exalted weapons irrelevant.

[TheBlueEyedKing]

I have been wanting to write a response to both of you but haven't felt the motivation to do so, but here it is. Sorry for the wait.

I will do @kaiserkiva first.

As for the skill point idea I think its a neat idea, personally I think either lowering the passives to one skill point will have the same effect as doubling the skill points at the earlier levels, in fact doubling below 100 might lead to quite a surplus.

I agree that the problem isn't exactly a zulie problem. I had no issue making zulie, but for newbies there are so many zulie costs that it was nearly impossible to keep up, funny enough it probably doesn't impact ultra late and rich players at all. It was the combination of starting new but having to buy scrolls/storage costs/repairs/but mainly food for regen. It is ridiculously expensive.

I also felt that my characters didn't feel normal until I maxed all the passives as well for attack power. It didn't feel like I was super strong, but rather that is where the baseline should have been. Since most of the passives and skills are percentage based it doesn't have much of an impact on the lower levels very well, making solo play really daunting. I love partying but due to weak food, until those passives are maxed you will spend most of the time eating 4-5 food between fights or sitting after every mob. Not ideal or fun. Maybe after 2-3 mobs sure..

I really agree with what you said about the exploration, progress, and focus on new experiences because that is what is going to keep people that try the game. Right now I am sitting in orlo looking at my storage for like 4 hours pretty much giving up because its impossible to manage due to not enough space. Sure you can buy more.. for $10 a page...call me crazy, but I am not dumping that kind of money into a digital extra page of storage. I know the developers have to earn a living, but it just seems the amount I would have to spend to get enough pages would be excessive. Not including the 500k zulie I spent just moving stuff around without even closing the storage window.

I am not really convinced about the hardcore or losing a level after dying method to stop botting, usually a few bans on main accounts stop something like that right in its tracks, but I think the botting is really a symptom of other problems rather than a cause. I think most people do not tend to enjoy hardmode things and having something such as dying and losing a level would be so heavily punishing people would hate it. Like I mentioned, I want to feel rewarded for my hard work and effort. I am sure other people share a similar sentiment.

I am trying to keep an open mind and continuing to play, but certain aspects of the game are making it rather difficult.

[TheBlueEyedKing]

Ok now I will respond to @HilariousFace

I didn't quote everything like you did, sorry haha. I am not that good at this.

1. I don't feel like it's that difficult to deal with. Buff food, along with some other character/class changes such as reducing passives down to 1 point each, make refining lower level gear much cheaper, and buff lower level muse heals. I know that it is probably a ton of veterans playing the game.. but if somebody roles a low level muse and walks up as a support, they are going to feel useless and not needed. I know people are interested in leveling as fast as they can, but if you can have a max level character in a group to make you immortal.. I think that points to some of the fundamental issues I mentioned. The thought wasn't so much that I have disdain for people using this method as it is available, but rather that it is almost needed in the first place. A party should be able to self sustain without a muse if they have the food/pots. Not as good as heals because you don't want to replace the class.. but it shouldnt cost 1k zulie per monster in food haha. (Again, this might be different from a veteran with unlimited funds vs somebody that is just starting) When I first started I would go get like 40 oranges (which go very quickly) and it was an insane zulie cost for a noob. Yeah there are some quests that offer food, but again, it just felt like a fundamental problem of overall chacter weakness for new players.

2. Yeah it seems like there are some quests that still give a buttload of zulie late game, but the market seems pretty busted for a new player. I agree on the storage bit along with needing more storage in general. Personally, the change to identify junk items couldn't come soon enough.

4. I think sorting junk loots and a tutorial for refining would fix this. As well as having cheaper refining at the lower levels (it shouldnt cost 75k to take a lvl 10 item from 5-6). I don't know the actual cost right off, but if it was cheap people would be more inclined to do it and feel good about themselves. Atm refining is so crazy expensive that why should they even attempt it to get 1 or 2 more points of attack or defense when lvl 30 comes so quickly? You can make the argument that lower levels don't need to refine stuff and that is true, I have two lvl 200+ characters that haven't refined a single thing the entire way because I didn't feel like the cost vs gain was enough. Maybe give the materials through a quest to refine an item to level 5, and then when you complete the quest, reward them with items to refine another piece. (This could swap between weapons and armor to introduce them to the difference of both talismans and bindrunes, as well as item level grade) Point is for a new player when they first see the upgrade an item menu its confusing and overwhelming. This rewards exploring a core game mechanic and allows people to experience sweet new glow Again, rewarding people for their time/effort for learning it. It's not like even a highly refined low level item on a noob is going to make a difference anyways, so why not make it dirt cheap for them? (obviously I dont mean like 10-20 or anything. Personally I wasn't around when an item could be refined that much in the first place. (9) was the max when I started playing, and when I quit. haha) If I started a game and saw I upgraded my sword to level 5 for a small fee and noticed it glowing, dude.. the first thing I would do is be out in zant killing whoopies to make the rest of my set level 5.

It's kind of the main point that I try to reiterate, the game has to be fun and rewarding..  because that's what a game is. If somebody feels the entire time they are being punished and somebody says "oh you are doing it wrong and older veterans that know it get along just fine" They are going to quit. Not always because everybody is not the same, but to be successful I think it's important to cater to the largest audience. I could be wrong. Who knows. I am not a seasoned game designer.

5. Haha I'd just toss em in the garbage. Give more loot that is rewarding

6. I think if somebody is going to level up a character to maximum it should feel awesome once they get close or actually get there. I think diversity is good, but it could come in different forms. Let's say they changed the passives to 1 point like I mentioned. Wouldn't it be cool if the passives/skills in your tree were linked? I mean lets take the champion you mentioned.. wouldn't it be cooler and feel more awesome if a champion could use a sword, spear, or axe without resetting? Unless they are building up to a third class..  I could not see how this would be game breaking, but rather allow the class to feel more flushed out. I do notice the difference of the hardened/unique weapons and reinforced armor because I have them on my lower level characters. However, it feels more like a requirement rather than a bonus. That's what I mentioned above about overall weakness. I don't think everybody should be able to easily cruise by on yellow gear.. but at the same time I once again try looking at things from a new player prospective where they can't get access to those gears without finding a nice artisan or the zulie who would craft them that. In fact, I have met people that were lvl 160 that didnt even know an artisan could reinforce armor. The reinforced armor definitely helps with hp and regen, but without it, it sucks. You say yourself they are reserved for experienced veterans..  but again, if don't cater to newer players, wont the game just die all over again? I did notice my two handed soldier felt weak with all of those things, also it was quite annoying having my skill animations take so long it was almost always better to just autoattack.

My point here is that I think classes should be able to fill out their skill trees.. if you want to do further sub-builds.. why can't people do that with gems? I am not saying a cleric needs to be able to heal and kill bosses.. but I shouldnt have to choose to heal people or to be able to do at least some autoattack damage to kill mobs for quests without resetting skill points. Same with other classes.. to skill crafting stuff and deal damage I need to reset every time. Why? Again, giving those extra skill points doesn't break anything, but rather allows the user to fully experience the class and then they can specialize it in other ways with gems, jewelry, and other equipment. That's just my two cents.

7. I agree with all of your points and I don't think simply redoing the loot tables will solve the issue. Who would want to group up and go after a boss when only one person gets rewarded? It doesn't promote team gameplay nor is it fun if you aren't the winner.

haha yeah that is pretty bad.. sorry I just don't have that kind of time (thousands of hours) to dedicate to this game. Nor would I want to.  That isn't fun to me and I would rather leave the shovel on the ground on the surface. xd

8. I don't know about this one.. when I hit level 200 and got the dog I pretty much felt like a god and drove through like 10+ times without getting hit... vs a much slower cart with basically no defense you get hit a lot.. usually for 2k dmg. Yeah the back seat would be a nice feature if dual boxing but I am not.. but I am biased here because I think carts are cooler than mounts but I have still been severely neglected. The amount of cool things they could have done with them is insane.. but instead they are worse now than ever.

Final:

Yes I have both skill bars enabled.. I attached a screen shot and its still not enough. If I wanted to put scrolls, food, drink, quest items, or whatever else there just isn't enough space. I have nearly every slot on the bottom filled with much needed heals.. (Did I mention how horrible those icons look and how they all look the same?) It's not that I don't know the shortcuts, but rather just dont have enough in general haha. Might be a cleric specific problem.. but as I said cycling through them sucks. Would much rather have on more I could just double click on.

I agree with the orlo comment.

Dalpings are basically raid bosses haha. I like the balance of candle ghost since they go down easy and most mobs are physical so it adds a cool balance.

I don't hate unique weapons.. but like I said.. there are so many cool weapons that people could go through that would feel like they are scaling nicely but most people slap a unique on it and they are good to go till end game haha. I just find this to be poor design that made a lot of things obsolete. Imagine unique armor doing that? You get a certain amount of STR and then boom lvl.. who knows lets say 70-180 armor is worthless. That is just... really poor design in my opinion. I get what they were going for to reward veteran players but at the same time it introduces a whole host of other issues.

Anyways thanks for the feedback haha.

[TheBlueEyedKing]

Along with your last comment about candle ghosts, I did see they added different elements to the game. I feel like magic or physical was pretty good as is and this just leads to more min-maxing vs specific types.

EARTH
FIRE 
WIND 
WATER 
GHOST 
HOLY 
POISON 
SORCERY

Overall its basically a non-factor throughout most of the game and just seems like extra fluff. I don't want to carry around multiple sets of armor/weapons/ammo. There is a huge inventory/storage problem as is unless you fork over the $$$$$$$$$.

I get what they are going for but.. ehhhhh....Personally not a fan. haha.

[TheBlueEyedKing]

I have other thoughts since I kept playing about progression, leveling, and some zones such as desert of the dead and sikuku ruins (This is probably the coolest zone in the game to me) It has cool monsters, mystery, a great soundtrack, and it was all ruined when somebody came by and two shot me when I was checking out the amazing unfinished stuff in the south of the map which looked really cool. Shame nothing was ever done with it). Either way, I am interested to see which direction they will take the game. I probably wont last too much longer myself. It was fun seeing all the cool zones, different mobs, and partying with people though! So much could be done with this title and I hope for its success.

[Heatfist]

7 hours ago, Seanos said:

unfinished stuff in the south of the map which looked really cool.

The giant area in ruins? It’s finished lol.

It’s the Turak Maze, you need to talk to Hope NPC at the entrance of it to get a quest. Then you need to be party leader to turn in the quest allowing your party entry into the maze. You then have 15 minutes to get through it and defeat Turak. Only one party can enter at a time.

This was Eldeon’s end game for refine mats and higher quality chemicals as the rewards for defeating Turak scale with charm stat. Since it’s a PvP map groups would compete for entry.

Due to Turak only having 30k Hp back at EA launch it was abused to hell so his Hp has now been increased to 1m. It’s still a decent farm for those mats for those who don’t enjoy dungeons and prefer quest/boss rushing.

Edited March 28 by Heatfist

[TheBlueEyedKing]

@Heatfist

Oh. Maybe it's because I wasn't in a party. I did talk to the npc though and they wouldn't let me in. What about the other direction that is blocked off by a ton of giant vines leading up all of those bridges? Is that part of the dungeon? I have never ran that part so thanks for letting me know. It was cool walking that way. I'd love to go walk there and screenshot it but I don't really feel like getting killed over and over again. xD

I am not the biggest fan of pvp zones.

[Heatfist]

1 hour ago, Seanos said:

@Heatfist

Oh. Maybe it's because I wasn't in a party. I did talk to the npc though and they wouldn't let me in. What about the other direction that is blocked off by a ton of giant vines leading up all of those bridges? Is that part of the dungeon? I have never ran that part so thanks for letting me know. It was cool walking that way. I'd love to go walk there and screenshot it but I don't really feel like getting killed over and over again. xD

I am not the biggest fan of pvp zones.

Yeah, you need a party to enter. Yes all those bridges are part of the maze. That whole southern chunk of the map is part of the maze as the maze has a divide within it where you can try the bridge part or continue through the zig zag area. The bridge part also has holes in the bridges it’s quite annoying lol. 

[HilariousFace]

2 hours ago, Seanos said:

1. Reducing passives down to 1 point each, make refining lower level gear much cheaper, and buff lower level muse heals. A party should be able to self sustain without a muse if they have the food/pots. Not as good as heals because you don't want to replace the class.. but it shouldnt cost 1k zulie per monster in food haha. (Again, this might be different from a veteran with unlimited funds vs somebody that is just starting) When I first started I would go get like 40 oranges (which go very quickly) and it was an insane zulie cost for a noob. Yeah there are some quests that offer food, but again, it just felt like a fundamental problem of overall chacter weakness for new players.

Reducing passive down to 1 point each, will mean every class every build have sufficient SP to learn everything. But it is by design that you don't have enough SP to learn everything, because it was designed to induce you to make choices and sacrifice such that everyone's skill build is different. In a perfect world, we could have a skill tree for a class where 25% of the SP are dedicated to passives, 75% of the SP are dedicated to active skills. However, the previous developers just simply do not have the resource to design us a crap ton of skills, it will be hard to balance every skill to be competitively viable against each other, it's just like those MOBA out there with crap ton of heros where it will become a nightmare to balance them all. This game currently has 241 SP for a Lv.250 characters, they certainly cannot design you 48 different skills (assuming one skill goes from Lv.1 to 5), because the skill bar only have 24 slots anyways, the choke point here is us being able to handle 24 slots skill bar only. The current most complicated class is mage where you have to fill up third-quarter of the skill bar with active skill, only 1/4 remain for buffs/food/mana shield/mount. And the simplest is probably Arti/Bourg. What I'm trying to say is, there is no point to design so much skill for each class skill tree because of the limitation I listed. Plus, we are pretty sure at this point the current new developers do not have much time resource to revamp the entire skill tree of each class in a way such that passive will only cost 1SP where more SP are dedicated to actual active combat skills, because people have asked for a Champ buff for over a year, only a tiny bit of change has happened. They have to focus on core gameplay changes, graphics change, new dungeon, UI design, things that are instantly eye catching and convincing to any people that think this game is actually "changed" because they have to port this game on Steam somehow and ending the early access phase.

I agree with the rest of that in the quoted paragraph, players at low level should be self-reliant, but I think the game designer wants everyone to party up, why are you playing an online game anyways if you don't wanna co-op. And buffing lower level muse could potentially allow mage to take advantage of that, I'm also surprised how weak muse heals are, they don't wanna lock heals behind magic wand only because the designer want some mage to have some strange build but has to be crappy heal.

And regarding new players, lacking zulie to buy food, storage fee, travel and stuff, I have experienced it all. They either have to give more zulies upon level up or might have to introduce a new voucher currency only spendable on certain NPC things which will turn into account lock status.

 

2 hours ago, Seanos said:

4. Atm refining is so crazy expensive that why should they even attempt it to get 1 or 2 more points of attack or defense when lvl 30 comes so quickly? Point is for a new player when they first see the upgrade an item menu its confusing and overwhelming. This rewards exploring a core game mechanic and allows people to experience sweet new glow Again, rewarding people for their time/effort for learning it. It's not like even a highly refined low level item on a noob is going to make a difference anyways, so why not make it dirt cheap for them? (obviously I dont mean like 10-20 or anything.

Regarding refining is crazy expensive, I'm going to take a wild guess the whole refine system role over the past decade, was some mechanic to make you feel rewarding for taking a risk and grind tali/bind/apo, to a game mechanic mostly designed to drain the excess zulie from the game, also refining unique weapon is an entirely different league, it cost a ton more than normal weapon/armor, so make sure you aren't confusing unique with default weapon.

And regarding why refining don't feel worth it, we have discuss it before it's because of power creep development for the past decade in the previous ROSE, you even mention it yourself, the game in the beginning had (9) as max refine level only, several years later it was changed to (15), and then several years later it was changed to (20), however the total mileage from (0) to (9), (0) to (15), (0) to (20) were kept similar. These elements like Poison, Holy, Ghost, Sorcery, Water, Fire, Wind didn't exist back then, was also added as part of the equation to power up your character leetness. Artisan gems in the beginning also goes from [1] to [7] only, now it is extended to [10], and we have reached a point where they are mostly obsolete, at high level you are supposed to use these new gen stat like auto attack AP, skill AP, critical damage, dmg reduction, enhance damage. I quitted around the time they introduced these paradigm shift rune thingy, I didn't know what it is but I bet it's another huge component to the endless grind. All of these happened, because the ultimate goal was to keep the playerbase have something to work on and potentially milk them through IM, eventually the game was so dependent on IM pay to win items, and the business model collapsed.

Refine level (0) to (5) is actually manageable for new players with no funds, (6) to (10) is for players who went through the 250 levels process, (11) to (15) is for players who finished these 29m zulies of quest in orlo. (16) to (20) is for end game players who mastered everything in this game. There is a difference refining these things, but so tiny tiny that it is not worth it if you do the math, but people still go all the way in to get (20).

[TheBlueEyedKing]

I did notice the increase in the amount of gem types, their levels, the refinement levels, the elements, ehhh it all just seems like a bit much to me. lol.

I prefer the simplicity. Maybe I am just dumb and dont like change.

I don't really dig a lot of the new stuff but hey if that's what brings in the people I understand.

I like the (10) maximum for refining even if the overall scale is the same.

[kaiserkiva]

13 hours ago, Seanos said:

I have been wanting to write a response to both of you but haven't felt the motivation to do so, but here it is. Sorry for the wait.

I will do @kaiserkiva first.

As for the skill point idea I think its a neat idea, personally I think either lowering the passives to one skill point will have the same effect as doubling the skill points at the earlier levels, in fact doubling below 100 might lead to quite a surplus.

I agree that the problem isn't exactly a zulie problem. I had no issue making zulie, but for newbies there are so many zulie costs that it was nearly impossible to keep up, funny enough it probably doesn't impact ultra late and rich players at all. It was the combination of starting new but having to buy scrolls/storage costs/repairs/but mainly food for regen. It is ridiculously expensive.

I also felt that my characters didn't feel normal until I maxed all the passives as well for attack power. It didn't feel like I was super strong, but rather that is where the baseline should have been. Since most of the passives and skills are percentage based it doesn't have much of an impact on the lower levels very well, making solo play really daunting. I love partying but due to weak food, until those passives are maxed you will spend most of the time eating 4-5 food between fights or sitting after every mob. Not ideal or fun. Maybe after 2-3 mobs sure..

I really agree with what you said about the exploration, progress, and focus on new experiences because that is what is going to keep people that try the game. Right now I am sitting in orlo looking at my storage for like 4 hours pretty much giving up because its impossible to manage due to not enough space. Sure you can buy more.. for $10 a page...call me crazy, but I am not dumping that kind of money into a digital extra page of storage. I know the developers have to earn a living, but it just seems the amount I would have to spend to get enough pages would be excessive. Not including the 500k zulie I spent just moving stuff around without even closing the storage window.

I am not really convinced about the hardcore or losing a level after dying method to stop botting, usually a few bans on main accounts stop something like that right in its tracks, but I think the botting is really a symptom of other problems rather than a cause. I think most people do not tend to enjoy hardmode things and having something such as dying and losing a level would be so heavily punishing people would hate it. Like I mentioned, I want to feel rewarded for my hard work and effort. I am sure other people share a similar sentiment.

I am trying to keep an open mind and continuing to play, but certain aspects of the game are making it rather difficult.

I guess we’ll just have to wait for rednim to fix those issues. 

tbh I can relate to your last point now. I’ve played this game for nearly a year and there’s barely any difference in gameplay especially in pvm since I started playing. The levelling phase is too fast, low and mid level items are irrelevant due to most players being at max level, botters everywhere and random dcs when you try to vend or when fighting mobs. I’ve also noticed that there are lots of posts in the ideas section of the forum but have not been read and the ones that have been considered are still not been implemented. The rate of development is slow and it may take them 2-5 more years to fix the game and  new content for new players. The updates are becoming predictable now. I bet there will be new mounts again next update and few tweaks in pvp. Mark my words lol.

I’m probably same with you of not having much motivation to play.  Atm, I just hunt bosses to kill time after work. I’m trying to find new things to do in game. But soon I will be watching the development in the sideline or just stay afk in game.

 

[TheBlueEyedKing]

I agree that the leveling is too fast, but I also think its too spread out. Personally I would have stopped at 200 to try and get some sort of rigid progression. Not that a person can't deviate, but if leveling was compressed or slower, you would see many more people in lower level zones because they would have less options... but again, nobody wants to be stuck as a weakling forever at lvl 50 where they have everything dumped in passives either hence the mentioned single point for passives or 2 points for each lvl to 100.

I remembered when I was younger and played it felt super awesome to get to each next armor tier... now I blow through them all so quickly its not even needed. Especially with the support of max level clerics and people with unique weapons. I find myself often keeping my lvl 50 (40 actual) set till like 160 until then is when I feel the need to upgrade for prison, but I no longer feel that progression. I just hitch alongside the unique item person and their cleric because it feels so weak/slow to solo that it isn't fun.. and that's kinda the hard part. What changes have to be made to make the game fun to play? You can make the argument that most people are trying to level up as fast as they can and thats fine, but if the journey is hollow then people will only care about the destination. haha.

I think it would be cool to have a questline continuing in anima lake > Forest of Wisdom > Kenji Beach > Gorge of Silence > Desert of the Dead (Although this zone needs to be redone I think.. its pretty lame except the music) > And then I would rescale goblin cave to be the final zone on Junon. Then I'd probably rescale luna levels to pick up after goblin cave and have a nice progression through each zone to get the full experience of the game, but who knows. Those are just fantasy visions. What will actually happen who knows.

 

[Frikion]

We are in early , a new server with these options to test could be possible or not? This is my opinion of what is currently wrong.

 

1.eliminating the entire valor system with its quests and npc's included.( The artisan renaissance)

2.Eliminating the repeatable experience quests and giving away zulie.

3.returning the cleric as it was before.

4.removing the weapon restrictions on the skills of all classes to make unique builds. 

5.The dungeon should come back for different levels and be just a way to level up faster and get materials to refine and sell to crafters, and the new gems and the other stuff (no valor points). 

6.remove the drop of the grey mobs.

7.unique weapons really unique weapons(Unique weapons , make them really unique. A more difficult drop rate ) 

[Ashura]

For a second i thought i was reading one of Bobbity's master pieces.

Congrats @Seanos on level 205 all those points you have mentioned is all really valid and definitely points of concern for new players to navigate through.

The main problem is that one of the key fundamentals of any MMO was removed and not a lot of adjustments were made in the game to compensate for that lose. I am referring to need to have money in game to be able to reach your goals and make the game enjoyable and entertaining. Ever since zulie was restricted in the game a lot of players who started today has been crippled, lets take the Orlo daily quest which was restricted to 2m per quest everyone else who has arrived after the nerve has already impacted negatively and yes the saying might be "early bird catches the worm" but the fact of the matter is that all those veteran players who knew about it already reap the benefits and is already at a huge advantage compared to the rest. A player driven market is a positive but also a huge negative in my book as you look at the prices to buy items compared to the pittance new players get for selling their items to veterans who know the market in and out. Almost all the NPC gear prices are the same as when the game started and with very limited weapon drops for players to be able to sell due to the convoluted drop table and making most crafted items redundant.

Another problem in the game is the long cooldown period for low level vials which does not really help you save your precious food that you might have purchased because at the end of the day you will still have to use it just to make sure you don't die waiting to use another vial.

Unfortunately as in live we do not want to leave any situation feeling like we have lost and the need for validation is also a detriment as to why we can't evolve as a species.

I am currently enjoy leveling my mage i intentionally duel client to party myself to stop people from hindering me from having to group up and i am actually enjoying only using the single target skills i feel a sense of satisfaction when achieving something on my own through hard work and dedication.

I recently played my lvl134 bourg in xita and strangely enough we were an all dealer party and was really cool just banding with the guys but i felt power creep as we were struggling to kill pincers (Queen) faster than a fully specked out bourg with an AoE mage. My atk spd was 0.86% as well which also didn't help the situation.

There's a lot i still want to say but i am gonna cut it out short here and thanx for always posting these informative posts i really enjoy reading them.

 

 

[TheBlueEyedKing]

It's kind of funny because I feel like the shops everywhere adds to the charm of rose, but a marketplace might solve a ton of issues stated as well regarding access to better low level gears since when you are done with it, it will be easier to sell it to somebody that needs it. Nobody wants to sell a low level item bc its not high value.

Idk. Lots of issues and not real certain how to fix em haha.

Thanks everybody for the feedback. I am always happy to discuss or give thoughts.

[Ashura]

I agree that is one of the first thing you associate when entering Junon as a new player when you see this huge market place where you can shop until your (7)hearts content but unfortunately as it was iterated problem more times than the amount of zulie in game no one has that amount of time to peruse all of the stores and still try and get in quality game time.

There is place for both i can assure you that, if you look at the amount of shops on the other planets it tells you that loud and clear, i don't want to every time i am on Eldeon or Luna if it was still the old version of Rose have to keep going to Junon and look for weapons to cater for my level and spend 45mins-2hrs looking through shops trying to find a bargain somewhere or the gear with the best stats.

I just don't believe that there isn't room for both considering the devs want to modernize the game to make it appealing to new players but do not want to lose that nostalgia and appeal it had all those years, and a lack of options to obtain currency and gear options that is not just appealing aesthetically but actually useful in battle, currently the meta is exalted gear with a unique weapon and this is (un)fortunately driving by the veteran player base and lack of useful lower gear other than uniques. 

I understand it is difficult for the devs because there are a lot of valid points a lot of the community is making but the question they are stuck with is "Where do we start, who do we appease first"

It will take time and i have faith in this team that things will get better it is just a matter of we all supporting them through thick and thin.

Edited March 29 by Ashura

[Moeregard]

I feel like this has been drilled into the ground, and I'm a little embarrassed to ask, but what do you do with lower level clerics these days?

I don't want to complain here, seems like a nice bonus that all classes get buffs, but couldn't Clerics have kept their old buffs too?

What is their niche these days? Feels a waste to have a Cleric just to heal and buff stats that physical classes don't even need.

What class even benefits from having a cleric in the party, is it just Mage? Do stacks of food just straight up replace a same-level cleric in most parties?

It's a reasonably good ranged attacker, but Bourg is better. Bourg is also a better summoner. Is a Cleric just a worse Bourg with no refining?

I've only been playing the new game for a day or so, so I really don't know. Maybe I'm way off base.

[HoneyBuns]

39 minutes ago, Moeregard said:

I feel like this has been drilled into the ground, and I'm a little embarrassed to ask, but what do you do with lower level clerics these days?

I don't want to complain here, seems like a nice bonus that all classes get buffs, but couldn't Clerics have kept their old buffs too?

What is their niche these days? Feels a waste to have a Cleric just to heal and buff stats that physical classes don't even need.

What class even benefits from having a cleric in the party, is it just Mage? Do stacks of food just straight up replace a same-level cleric in most parties?

It's a reasonably good ranged attacker, but Bourg is better. Bourg is also a better summoner. Is a Cleric just a worse Bourg with no refining?

I've only been playing the new game for a day or so, so I really don't know. Maybe I'm way off base.

I think it depends on the situation. We have free and unlimited stat and skill resets, so you can set yourself for support when in a party, and for solo fighting when you are not in a party.  Support is still very important. Muse class is the only one with heals and bonfires. 

Battle clerics are some of the strongest fighters in the game. Take a look at some of the guides in this section .  Since it sounds like you have played ROSE before, you might find this topic helpful. It also contains links to guide for features that you may not be familiar with from iROSE. 

We also have a Discord server where you can chat with other players and ask questions. My name is HB on Discord. Feel free to message me anytime.

[Moeregard]

16 hours ago, HoneyBuns said:

I think it depends on the situation. We have free and unlimited stat and skill resets, so you can set yourself for support when in a party, and for solo fighting when you are not in a party.  Support is still very important. Muse class is the only one with heals and bonfires. 

Battle clerics are some of the strongest fighters in the game. Take a look at some of the guides in this section .  Since it sounds like you have played ROSE before, you might find this topic helpful. It also contains links to guide for features that you may not be familiar with from iROSE. 

We also have a Discord server where you can chat with other players and ask questions. My name is HB on Discord. Feel free to message me anytime.

I first played Rose probably 20 years ago, before the first reset... this was back when Vital Jam was destroying the economy and everyone was running around with at least 5 level 7 gems in their gear (even low level beginners, because you could basically sell 10 jams for a G7).

It was pretty terrible... leveling was straight up awful, just getting to level 40 was absurd.

After that first reset, people would just DC and start a Dealer the same time as any new character they wanted to build and party with them up till level 100, which took... like a day. The hunters were so good that a pair of them could just delete any enemy up to Krawfy with a few arrows.  At the same time, once a Muse got access to the first few buffs, they were a great self-sufficient unit, and if they didn't want to be self-sufficient, they could easily just build parties around them.

It seems that "easy mode" these days is just... follow the episode quest? Or is the dealer shortcut still as viable?

[HoneyBuns]

Generally quests are a good way to go but not necessarily (or only) the Episode Quest.  Following the tutorial quests starting in Adv Plains all the way to Junon will reward you with some job specific weapons and armor.  Repeatable quests reward with experience and since you have to kill mobs to level anyway, it makes sense to take quests for those same monsters.  Valor quests are also an option to earn exp as well as valor points

This topic lists the quests in the game and this id a list of the Valor quests.  

[Bobbity]

6 hours ago, Moeregard said:

After that first reset, people would just DC and start a Dealer the same time as any new character they wanted to build and party with them up till level 100, which took... like a day. The hunters were so good that a pair of them could just delete any enemy up to Krawfy with a few arrows.  At the same time, once a Muse got access to the first few buffs, they were a great self-sufficient unit, and if they didn't want to be self-sufficient, they could easily just build parties around them.

It seems that "easy mode" these days is just... follow the episode quest? Or is the dealer shortcut still as viable?

There is no more easy mode, only meta. I remember the power of those summons. I remember using them to take down bosses. You can't do that anymore. There's been a normalization of sorts re: damage values, summon stats, buff stacking etc. It's very much "work hard, be rewarded a little bit" now. I've actually spent the last 8 years thinking about muse earlygame and Dealer summons for this very reason, tbh.

In this instance of the server, bourgs don't have all the summons. They have basic hunters and warriors plus the advanced Third Eye mobile detection summon. As such, this competes with the basic Phantom Sword Cleric summon (low summon cost) and the advanced Firegon (ranged fire attack, aoe DOT flamethrower attack, high acquisition range and aggro) in terms of ROI. Artisans have the advanced summons: Dread Knight, Terror Knight, Sentry (static detection summon unit) and Judgement Knight (Unique, not part of skill tree) which are situationally better than hunters due to the ability to directly control their positioning and attack. They also have some AOEs with debuffs, although we can't control those skills (yet?). The Judgement Knight is pretty strong, too, although its major failing, like the other Knight summons, is that it's a magical summon instead of a crafted-and-deployed unit leveraging Artisan abilities. No upgrades, no PAT modularity, what you see is what you get.

 

Edited 10 hours ago by Bobbity