First hit priority

[GodOfEntity]

1 hour ago, Garnet said:

We probably need a poll for this

 

[Kaizy]

First hit was just as toxic as new system because people believed that they couldn't get the drop after you got the first hit so they would lure a bunch of mobs to you and stealth/scroll, taunt the mob you were hitting away so you had to chase it across the entire map, or spam requests at you in hope that you would die.

Also reverting the changes to how it was before, would still not be just first hit. Before the change, groups would come in and take the drop without first hit. It was just not a well known mechanic by majority of the player base so people think it was only first hit.

[SSJori]

If for some reason we go back to 1st hit. There needs to be a cool down for that 1st hit so people don't camp after 1st hit. Say 5 seconds and they loose chance of drop if they don't continue to fight it. This will remove camo abuse camping in orlo kings. But then again. It also might not be a good idea because once the camper sees someone coming. They will be closer to the king and fh the king. But then again, again. If first hit came back. I probably wouldn't bother and let that solo guy still take it on it self. Lol now thinking about it. Clans can easily control kings even more if they are in a huge party and FH became a thing again. 

Edited April 7, 2023 by SSJori

[FieryHamster]

I think no matter how the system for rewarding a mob's drop is molded, there will always be people who can take advantage of that new system. 

When Rose was first created (and for the 10+ years after), the system was that first hit gets the drop, and I'm sure they didn't just implement that for no reason. They must have thought of all the scenarios like we are doing and decided that this was the best option, and for the most part the game did fine with that system. So I think bringing back first hit or at least make it so that if you first hit and do at least 20% of the damage, you'll get the drop (this is to prevent people from first hitting and leaving).

So I'm suggesting a combination of first hit + damage. So if I first hit and do 20% of the damage, I can get it over someone doing 50% of the damage. 

 

[Vile]

I think it could work either way. But far be it from me to question the crowd.
So if it does revert to a first hit only here's some concerns to design around possibly.
1: How long does the tag count. Can you tag the mob, tether it back to its spawn and afk until someone else kills it?
2: How does the tag count drop modifiers? Can you theoretically take a level 1 visitor to higher level maps, tag the mob and then immediately kill it with a max level character to get the best rates on uniques or materials? What about a level 100 Bourgeois with maxed stockpile?
3: How would taunt/sacri play into it. Does it count as a tag to apply taunt, or another status that doesn't apply damage?

Just some curious things to think about, and maybe some others but I can't think of them off the top my head. Just observing from a distance and thought it was an interesting conversation.

Edited April 8, 2023 by OwlchemistVile

[GodOfEntity]

1 hour ago, OwlchemistVile said:

3: How would taunt/sacri play into it. Does it count as a tag to apply taunt, or another status that doesn't apply damage?

It seems as though those sorts of things applies first hits (in regards to effecting drops) Including fires. 

1 hour ago, OwlchemistVile said:

2: How does the tag count drop modifiers? Can you theoretically take a level 1 visitor to higher level maps, tag the mob and then immediately kill it with a max level character to get the best rates on uniques or materials? What about a level 100 Bourgeois with maxed stockpile?

Yes. But not with Medallions (to my understanding) 

1 hour ago, OwlchemistVile said:

1: How long does the tag count. Can you tag the mob, tether it back to its spawn and afk until someone else kills it?

Until the boss dies, or until the player that tagged it dies. So yes, if you're not there when it spawns to first hit it, you risk the fact that you MIGHT NOT have gotten the first hit, and someone else can just gg your loot. (which is kind of hilarious if you're a terrible person like me.) 




All of my answers are to my understanding, unfortunately I am often wrong. In that case, you should just believe the opposite to what I say. 

[Bluntastic]

I think we need to understand where this matters most. Is it during the beginning of the game, during the leveling process? Or is it during end game, where high tier bosses are important to camp and have timers for continued farm. 

Both may also require different rule sets. Normal Mob, "First to X%". Elite Mob "First to X%". Boss "first to x% but lost on death". 

Also what about Group rules or party rules. If your party or group member is 2nd to hit, do they lock it in if 1st hit dies?

These are just suggestions.

[GodOfEntity]

2 minutes ago, Bluntastic said:

I think we need to understand where this matters most. Is it during the beginning of the game, during the leveling process? Or is it during end game, where high tier bosses are important to camp and have timers for continued farm. 

I don't understand why it should be any different at different levels? 

 

 

3 minutes ago, Bluntastic said:

Also what about Group rules or party rules. If your party or group member is 2nd to hit, do they lock it in if 1st hit dies?

I believe if they're in a party than it's applied by the party, and unless the entire party wipes, the loot belongs to that party specifically. (But I'm not certain) 

[Bluntastic]

1 minute ago, GodOfEntity said:

I don't understand why it should be any different at different levels? 

Well, to me, the leveling process of the game is pretty stagnant. You get to 30/35 and its AoE groups to max. Its also rather quick and you're most likely not being ks'd at this time. Also, the game is 5 months old with no reset plans and majority of members max level with significant farming potential. 

So theres only one real set of players who want it changed.

 

 

[GodOfEntity]

16 minutes ago, Bluntastic said:

Well, to me, the leveling process of the game is pretty stagnant. You get to 30/35 and its AoE groups to max. Its also rather quick and you're most likely not being ks'd at this time. Also, the game is 5 months old with no reset plans and majority of members max level with significant farming potential. 

So theres only one real set of players who want it changed.

Actually being KS'ed as a lowbie at Aqua king is probably one of the worst experiences for a lowbie. To kill 40% of the HP, for a high level to come and over dmg it for a medallion. At least with first hit, a high level can't steal that from a noob. King quest is a weird one, but eh!  Let's not argue about that specifically. The point being, yes, low levels can get KS'ed by high levels, and it happens all the time with king spawns. 
First hit mitigated that. I kind of love trying for a grunter king medallion with a bunch of lowbies for the heck of it when leveling up. 
Just messing about like that can make the leveling experience great. 

The nice thing about first hit, is a bunch of lvl 60s can kill a grunter king, and it doesn't matter if a high lvl comes at 60% HP and takes the kill from them, cause they can't really do it. 

I'm not sure what you mean by there's only one real set of players who want it changed.  

[Bluntastic]

9 minutes ago, GodOfEntity said:

Actually being KS'ed as a lowbie at Aqua king is probably one of the worst experiences for a lowbie.

When is this actually happening though? This is one specific instance that will not happen every day. Both players have the option to attempt the quest/kill/medal on another day that is less frequent as well.

 

What will be happening every day are focused high level areas. Which is why I also mentioned there is probably more sense in creating multiple levels of kill participation depending on mob class; normal, elite, boss

 

If first hit becomes implemented I believe adding trade restrictions should also be implemented. This may relieve some of the market complaints with too much open availability to items.

Edited April 8, 2023 by Bluntastic

[MeNewbie]

I will just make an alternative dungeon with world bosses, so anyone can go farm them or run dungeon for it.

[GodOfEntity]

6 hours ago, MeNewbie said:

I will just make an alternative dungeon with world bosses, so anyone can go farm them or run dungeon for it.

Please do this sir  

[zyk]

First hit priority is good. But I think together with most damage dealt will be much better.

[HLAJR]

This just come to my mind, why not make it Most Hit?

Meaning more instance that a player hit that particular mobs because that shows the intention to really get the possible reward and due to what we can also call hard work...

In essence, a lowbie could have an advantage over a one strike power of a high level player

Advantages:
1) You don't have to be the first hitter.
2) You don't have to give the most damage as that would benefit always the higher level due to their higher stat, skill and equipment already.

[Heatfist]

4 hours ago, HLAJR said:

This just come to my mind, why not make it Most Hit?

Meaning more instance that a player hit that particular mobs because that shows the intention to really get the possible reward and due to what we can also call hard work...

In essence, a lowbie could have an advantage over a one strike power of a high level player

Advantages:
1) You don't have to be the first hitter.
2) You don't have to give the most damage as that would benefit always the higher level due to their higher stat, skill and equipment already.

Not a bad idea, the only issue with this is any mob with 20k+ health will always reward the fastest attack speed Raider hitting it. Leaving other classes basically no chance at loot. 

I prefer the current method but would like to see a change in how loot works.

For example:

The Cupid Porkie Event Mob had an interesting multi drop mechanic which divided the loot amongst the different attackers.
Similar could be done for all King mobs (FH would get the benefit of applied drop effects) others would just get random chance. No loot is still a thing too.

Loot drop chance % can equal dmg done % of each player attacking the King mob. So if one player did 60% of the dmg they would have 60% chance of loot (plus bonuses if FH).
 

 

Edited April 11, 2023 by Heatfist

[GodOfEntity]

5 hours ago, HLAJR said:

Advantages:
1) You don't have to be the first hitter.

How is that an advantage? --- 
Why shouldn't first hit be the only indicator? 

Why should Kill Stealing be encouraged by Game Mechanics? 

Edited April 11, 2023 by GodOfEntity

[Bluntastic]

4 hours ago, GodOfEntity said:

Why should Kill Stealing be encouraged by Game Mechanics? 

Kill stealing is not a mechanic. Its a way of life.

 

Jokes aside, MMORPGs are meant to fulfill all sides of fantasy. Your fantasy is to frolic free in Adventure Plains, pick flowers with your friends and live a happy hobbit life. Mine is not.

[HLAJR]

9 hours ago, GodOfEntity said:

How is that an advantage? --- 
Why shouldn't first hit be the only indicator? 

Why should Kill Stealing be encouraged by Game Mechanics? 

Then make it that when a mobs was already hit, it cannot be hit anymore by anybody else, then guaranteed no Kill Stealing there 

I guess the Devs have a lot to make their brains sizzle or they could also not just do anything about it and make it like what it is before...

anyway I am just toying with those...

One obvious example of the 1st hit issue is during the christmas event in Santa Planetoid where high level and fast attacker always tag all reindeer in sight and leaving the killing to the unlucky player not knowing they cannot pick up the loot afterwards. I hope they would find a new way to make such event fool proof in the future or just left it like that and the story just go round and round again...

[DoubleRose]

I just killed a boss where I did 2/3 the damage before the other guy showed up. He then outdamaged me 60-40 or maybe a little better because I was on my arti. That means I first hit and did 92% of the total damage and he still got the drop. Sorry, that's a busted system. I did more on all fronts. If you've already done most of a boss's health by the time they show up, they should have a 0% chance of getting the drop.

[MeNewbie]

1 hour ago, DoubleRose said:

I just killed a boss where I did 2/3 the damage before the other guy showed up. He then outdamaged me 60-40 or maybe a little better because I was on my arti. That means I first hit and did 92% of the total damage and he still got the drop. Sorry, that's a busted system. I did more on all fronts. If you've already done most of a boss's health by the time they show up, they should have a 0% chance of getting the drop.

That happand to me also 2 times, and trust me util they fix the system i'am not even looking at one kill and like me there are others that already give up.

[Makeni]

1st hit + spawn time variable 

Edited April 11, 2023 by Makeni

[GodOfEntity]

3 hours ago, Makeni said:

1st hit + spawn time variable 

Would you please be able to elaborate? 
Specifically the spawn time variable. What do you mean?

 

Personally I have an idea to make things even more fair than FIRST HIT, 
Have it be so that when a person targets the mob, whoever gets first TARGET AND THEN HITS (within 1 seconds of targeting the mob) That is what claims it. 
If a person clicks it second, but hits it first, the other persons first target will change the agro, and the mob claim to them. 

Rather than, whoever has the fastest attack speed wins. 
It genuinely becomes, whoever clicks it first. 

Which I think is just about as fair as it can get. 

Edited April 11, 2023 by GodOfEntity

[Kaizy]

On 4/11/2023 at 1:06 PM, DoubleRose said:

I just killed a boss where I did 2/3 the damage before the other guy showed up. He then outdamaged me 60-40 or maybe a little better because I was on my arti. That means I first hit and did 92% of the total damage and he still got the drop. Sorry, that's a busted system. I did more on all fronts. If you've already done most of a boss's health by the time they show up, they should have a 0% chance of getting the drop.

This is the mechanic that worked before the drop changes too. That's why when people say revert to first hit only don't actually know how the drops worked before. This is a really bad experience for a player to have. 

Edited April 17, 2023 by Kaizy

[metzbower]

I think first hit should have priority, and if they drop combat the mob resets and gets a new priority. This most damage thing is demoralizing when 3+ members speed up and of course they outdamage me 3v1, and boom my gems cant even be looted by me. Lost CM13 and MM!3 today and its literally the worst feeling in the game...