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Monk Class & 3rd Jobs


Trebor
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Monk Class & 3rd Jobs  

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  1. 1. Would you like to see new classes, like Monk Class and 3rd jobs?

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    • No
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I know that Leonis was talking about a Monk Class and 3rd Jobs at one of my trips to Gravity.

If I recall, there was some stuff being built for the 3rd class jobs, but I could not say what they were.

Did any work happen for the new Monk (or whatever name it was going to be) class?

Edited by Trebor
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It was Monk and Sorcerer. They were both added to the VFS in the official client. I'd have to look up the second job names for Monk, but Sorcerers was Soothesayer and Soulbinder. 

Monks was a hand to hand DPS, and Healer/Mystic from what I remember him saying.
Sorcerers were a Sen base  Crit + Crit Defense focus Damage over time DPS, and a "anti-cleric" that supplies weaker AoE DoT's and status down that rivaled Clerics potency in buffs [albeit for shorter durations requiring upkeep].

As for third jobs, he never mentioned any of those plans to me directly as far as I know. There's have to be some documentation or something internal handed down if that was the case I think. Though I remember some funky entries in the VFS relating to Advanced Champion, Advanced Knight so forth. 

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23 hours ago, OwlchemistVile said:

It was Monk and Sorcerer. They were both added to the VFS in the official client. I'd have to look up the second job names for Monk, but Sorcerers was Soothesayer and Soulbinder. 

Monks was a hand to hand DPS, and Healer/Mystic from what I remember him saying.
Sorcerers were a Sen base  Crit + Crit Defense focus Damage over time DPS, and a "anti-cleric" that supplies weaker AoE DoT's and status down that rivaled Clerics potency in buffs [albeit for shorter durations requiring upkeep].

As for third jobs, he never mentioned any of those plans to me directly as far as I know. There's have to be some documentation or something internal handed down if that was the case I think. Though I remember some funky entries in the VFS relating to Advanced Champion, Advanced Knight so forth. 

Maybe I could have been wrong in regards to what I saw in regards to the 3rd class.   It has been awhile since I looked at those files  🙂

Monk and Sorcerer, I forgot the Sorcerer one, just the Monk stuck to my ole brain.

 

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That's the class list STB from the last version of the game. 

Edit: The only reason I knew the Sorcerers off the top of my head was because I designed them. Leonis was the one in charge of Monk. Sadly, Leonis was moved off ROSE shortly after the go-ahead was given for the implementation of the new classes. So unless the new Dev's want to pick up the torch and do their best to produce the original vision, we may never see them come to fruition. 

Edited by OwlchemistVile
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@OwlchemistVile

I do now remember seeing all of those way back when.    Leonis is still a very good friend of mine, I at this moment remember us talking about the Monk one too, besides that, he might have mentioned the other one, but it could have been in passing, I can't remember anymore.

I hope the new Devs are able to take it all on and add them to the game, it would be great to see it developed for sure!

 

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I think I have or recently had the original graph paper where I plotted the job. But I can't remember half of the names or rational behind everything I designed. I'd wager, Leonis might be in a similar position so both would probably due better to be re-designed with the spirit of the class in mind, but accounting for the new game environment. 

I wish I could say Leonis was someone I talk to but, that's not true, or hasn't been for some years now, though there was a period where I enjoyed hours long conversations back and forth it seemed. I also did get to say hi to him recently, so I know he's floating around as well, and maybe a little birdy could peep in someone's ear *cough Rob cough* to let him know more detailed info about Monk's design concept *wink wink* 

Ya subtlety isn't my strong suit, lol. 

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4 hours ago, OwlchemistVile said:

I think I have or recently had the original graph paper where I plotted the job. But I can't remember half of the names or rational behind everything I designed. I'd wager, Leonis might be in a similar position so both would probably due better to be re-designed with the spirit of the class in mind, but accounting for the new game environment. 

I wish I could say Leonis was someone I talk to but, that's not true, or hasn't been for some years now, though there was a period where I enjoyed hours long conversations back and forth it seemed. I also did get to say hi to him recently, so I know he's floating around as well, and maybe a little birdy could peep in someone's ear *cough Rob cough* to let him know more detailed info about Monk's design concept *wink wink* 

Ya subtlety isn't my strong suit, lol. 

I will try my best to see if was able to say anything.

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  • 3 months later...
  • 3 months later...

I feel like "third job" is a bit much. I personally would rather see new jobs added to 2nd tier. So soldier becomes knight/champion but you might also see paladin/berserker as 2 new 2nd tier. Or hawker becoming raider/scout and adding in swashbuckler and something else. Dealer has artisan and bourgeois and maybe now gambler and sniper.... I think adding to 2nd tier makes more sense than making a new 3rd tier. at least in my mind. gives more variety.

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1 hour ago, namcost said:

I feel like "third job" is a bit much. I personally would rather see new jobs added to 2nd tier. So soldier becomes knight/champion but you might also see paladin/berserker as 2 new 2nd tier. Or hawker becoming raider/scout and adding in swashbuckler and something else. Dealer has artisan and bourgeois and maybe now gambler and sniper.... I think adding to 2nd tier makes more sense than making a new 3rd tier. at least in my mind. gives more variety.

Could you break down these other classes for me, please? I think I know what you mean by paladin and berserker, but just outline what you visualize when you talk about the others (e.g. theme, purpose, defining skill)

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Oh, wow, and I even read that topic back when. Never mind, it's mostly a wall of text for me today. ty @TheShredr.

I feel like there will be space for additional tier-2 classes (tier-0 being Visitor, of course) once people resolve / accept (resolve themselves to?) the whole issue with leveling for all classes. There has to be some cost to wielding the power of a god to heal other players/yourself and even bring them back from the dead (clerics) or having the ability to one/two-shot other classes with Stealth + physical and DoT DPS (hawkers). That cost is inequality. Technically, there's ALREADY space for additional tier-2 classes but if proposed you'd need to break them down properly with proposed  additions / changes to the base skill tree.

 

Let's talk about this Sniper of yours @namcost. It comes from the Dealer class. I'm assuming it focuses on Sniping. What does its skill tree look like? Does it have Stealth or some camouflage skill? Damage reduction? Some special mini-map? Special ammo? What's the leveling experience expected to be like? If it's pure PvP, do you expect the Sniper named Edie Brickell to just leech off a party of their circle of friends until they notice you just AFK? Until they quit and give up? What does a Sniper offer a party? Or is there something interesting Snipers have where they can just live off the land in PvE?

 

While you do that, I want to read about a similar (actually even more detailed!) breakdown of the Monk class. I still don't get why anyone would pick these classes; they seem redundant at this time.

Edited by Bobbity
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I don't think there should be a ton of new classes added. I think the way it is now is sufficient enough. If they were to add more classes, I'd rather them do away with the first and second job system and just add more base classes with skill trees that can branch in different directions.

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15 hours ago, Jova1106 said:

I don't think there should be a ton of new classes added. I think the way it is now is sufficient enough. If they were to add more classes, I'd rather them do away with the first and second job system and just add more base classes with skill trees that can branch in different directions.

Agreed just differentiate each base class just not set skills fits all.

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16 hours ago, Bobbity said:

While you do that, I want to read about a similar (actually even more detailed!) breakdown of the Monk class. I still don't get why anyone would pick these classes; they seem redundant at this time.

Seems like just a bare knuckle katar raider

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19 hours ago, Bobbity said:

Could you break down these other classes for me, please? I think I know what you mean by paladin and berserker, but just outline what you visualize when you talk about the others (e.g. theme, purpose, defining skill)

 

17 hours ago, Bobbity said:

Oh, wow, and I even read that topic back when. Never mind, it's mostly a wall of text for me today. ty @TheShredr.

I feel like there will be space for additional tier-2 classes (tier-0 being Visitor, of course) once people resolve / accept (resolve themselves to?) the whole issue with leveling for all classes. There has to be some cost to wielding the power of a god to heal other players/yourself and even bring them back from the dead (clerics) or having the ability to one/two-shot other classes with Stealth + physical and DoT DPS (hawkers). That cost is inequality. Technically, there's ALREADY space for additional tier-2 classes but if proposed you'd need to break them down properly with proposed  additions / changes to the base skill tree.

 

Let's talk about this Sniper of yours @namcost. It comes from the Dealer class. I'm assuming it focuses on Sniping. What does its skill tree look like? Does it have Stealth or some camouflage skill? Damage reduction? Some special mini-map? Special ammo? What's the leveling experience expected to be like? If it's pure PvP, do you expect the Sniper named Edie Brickell to just leech off a party of their circle of friends until they notice you just AFK? Until they quit and give up? What does a Sniper offer a party? Or is there something interesting Snipers have where they can just live off the land in PvE?

 

While you do that, I want to read about a similar (actually even more detailed!) breakdown of the Monk class. I still don't get why anyone would pick these classes; they seem redundant at this time.

It all depends on how the developers would want those classes to be. I can only hand them an idea, its up to them to flesh it out themselves. Only they can say what they want to include/exclude and thusly publish. I can't flesh out their idea's for them, I can only offer suggestions. Plus they aren't paying me. I can only suggest the idea. Not given them every little detail and do their job for them....

On that note, simplistically wise I feel like the classes are rather self explanatory. You mention my idea of the sniper. Well clearly they be required to keep their distance from the enemy both PvE and PvP. All skills requiring X distance to shoot. You spoke about one shotting as a hawker via stealth and dps, the sniper could be a class cannon in that sense and require you to keep your distance. You ask what a sniper would be useful for in PvP? Damage, clearly. I don't know why you brought up being AFK and "being useless" but that's a mental limitation on your part. You can't think of ways for the class to be unique and useful? I mean if you don't want more classes just say "I disagree, I don't think we need more classes".... Monk class would be a NO WEAPON class. Literally not using weapons. Instead you would get a skill that not only levels up, but also has a bonus to damage based on level. So the higher you level, the more damage you do. So essentially your weapon slot would be empty. They would have a moderate damage level and speed to their advantage along with evades. But as a monk, you would have access to CHI/QI type skills, like self healing or fire/ice/lightening/earth damage skills. Think Warp Portal/Gravity's last version of rose where the Spear user had multiple elemental attacks. Except now you are a monk and it plays differently.... its quite easy to dream up idea's.... Gambler for the dealer class would expand on "lady luck" and other "zulie throw" type attacks. with a heavy focus on gabling and other such skill. Perhaps a skill called "52 pickup" that distracts enemies from attacking for a second or two. Perhaps there is a kill called "coin toss" where if you get a 50/50 chance to either do big damage to enemy or stun yourself for X seconds. There are MANY fun ways to incorporate new idea's into a game.... Again, I wont go into super detail, I'm not getting paid for my ideas. But I think you get the point.

My suggestions also aren't flat out "requirements" with no way to change them....you could say "well instead of sniper, how about this" and go from there. I just gave generic examples. Basically wanting MORE classes to choose from instead of the base that we had.

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1 hour ago, Ashura said:

Seems like just a bare knuckle katar raider

If that's all you can think of when you hear monk then you clearly have 0 imagination.... and that isn't an attack on you but a clear observation. I can easily think of more things than "bare knuckle raider" like having CHI/QI attacks (fire/ice/lightening/earth) and other abilities. Its just expanding the game to have more variability. Why limit a game when you can grow it and make it MORE.... so many games die off because they get stagnant. Hell that's why Rose died in the first place, Gravity wasn't making any money and they weren't pushing enough updates to keep people around. Of course I blame the engine they used more so than Gravity/WarpPortal themselves.... but still. If this version of Rose is going to stand out, it needs more than bug fixes, a few minor changes, and hoping the nostalgia holds new players.

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17 hours ago, Jova1106 said:

I don't think there should be a ton of new classes added. I think the way it is now is sufficient enough. If they were to add more classes, I'd rather them do away with the first and second job system and just add more base classes with skill trees that can branch in different directions.

That's an interesting take. Moving away from the old way of doing things and expanding upon it and a new way. I like it. Makes me think of Diablo 2 skill tree's where choice mattered and you would flow through the initial choices you made. That could be a solid way to add more to the game.

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Okay, so we have a Dealer that could've been either an artisan or a bourg but instead became a sniper. Like you said it's a glass cannon: high-impact long-range auto-attacks and presumably also very long-range nukes with no escape technique.

We also have a Muse that could've become an fs, bc or even a mage of whatever mastery but instead forsook weapons to gain... qigong? Presumably there's some sort of AOE autoattack or autocast-type attack at melee range with RNG-based heals proccing or some sort of lifesteal passive that even katars don't have. 

Then there's the gambler... A class that has an entire skill tree based around RNG. I don't know if we even have a god in this pantheon whose Authority is luck, but if there is, this particular class would be more devout than any cleric. As far as I know, bourgs already rely on RNG for drops, though. 

 

I'll be brutally honest with you: these aren't unlikely to ever be implemented but they're solutions looking for problems. Some feel more like intersectional multiclassing between existing classes rather than additional second job classes. The Sniper is a hawker without stealth, slow or snare and with a glaring artificial weakness of no short-range capability. He can't kite without a slow or snare. I hope he can still craft a concussion grenade because he's going to need it! (On that note, please make grenades good again, ty.) Unless he can pop somebody from across the map, he's far less useful than a mage with cast-range gems. The gambler is a one-note ill-defined caricature of throwing money at problems to make them go away and the monk needs a lot of brainstorming to make sense within ROSE. The monk also, as was said earlier, resembles a katar-less katar.

Too much overlap. Good job stimulating the dev team's creative juices, though. I can tell Garnet's munching on this already. What you said about the Diablo skill tree makes sense as well.

Edited by Bobbity
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