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increasing the cap on client instances that can be opened


Ed
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can we please increase the cap on at least 5, so that while we farm we can craft and vend?
just monitor the account/character reported if someone found them suspicious on botting/using 3rdparty programs?

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Yes, I also would appreciate more than 2 instances. I like to lvl up my diff chars without depending on finding a party. Sometimes a good bonfire and some cleric buffs (assuming you dont nurf them) is all you really want. Parties are sometimes a pain to find, and people keep dropping in and out.

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1 hour ago, LordAlbion said:

Parties are sometimes a pain to find, and people keep dropping in and out.

exactly, somethimes i don't want to interact to a player cos most of the time, they are toxic XD

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7 hours ago, Ed said:

can we please increase the cap on at least 5, so that while we farm we can craft and vend?
just monitor the account/character reported if someone found them suspicious on botting/using 3rdparty programs?

It would be nice, but i don't know how easy it would be to monitor those accounts using 3rd party programs.

 

 

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Posted (edited)

The cap is implemented for a reason. Even with 2 clients max it is still possible to craft, farm and sell. But yeah, you'll have to do this by relogging and not all at once. This is how a game should be. It will take a little longer to get mats and lvl your characters, but it is part of the experience. This also applies to the party argument. Searching for a party and play together is an important part of an MMORPG. Otherwise, you still have the possibility to play solo or even with one extra client. Let see how the rebalancing turns out. Hopefully, playing solo will be as hard/easy as playing in a group.

One other thing to mention is: I think a game in which it is possible to dual play with 4+ clients, is too easy. It shouldn't even be possible to play 4 or more characters at once in a fight/dungeon.

Edited by Luckystriike
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Honestly, people seem to be mostly worried about dungeons/high level stuff, and that's easily fixed. The other server allows multiple clients overall, but will disconnect you if you bring more than one character into a PvP zone or a dungeon or any group setting in the game. I have no idea why people are so adamant that it's "part of the experience" to spend an hour looking for someone to play with if all I want to do is kill stone golems. Sounds like a pretty bad experience to me, tbh.

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Posted (edited)
14 hours ago, Luckystriike said:

1-The cap is implemented for a reason.

2-I think a game in which it is possible to dual play with 4+ clients, is too easy. It shouldn't even be possible to play 4 or more characters at once in a fight/dungeon.

1-And you have no idea what that reason is 🤐

2-Thanks for stopping by 🤭

Edited by LordAlbion
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In any other game it is normal to play on one character on one client only. Sure, the game being free to play, having a completely passive support class and being easily bottable made it such that this multi-client meta evolved. But that does not mean, that this style of playing should be encouraged, normalized or give any advantages over someone who doesn't part-take in it. It's just another unnecessary barrier of entry to new players.
Any legitimate reasons for needing more than one client (e.g. vending and necessary buffs) will hopefully be taken care of by the devs before release.

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Posted (edited)

I think the devteam should look to ingame solutions to this. What is it that people want using multiple clients for? Maybe there can be an ingame solution to solve the shortcoming. If people need multiple clients to play the game then there is a flaw ingame that doesn't give the need players want to have. And that's where the fix should be. And if i look in the suggestion forum here then there already some good suggestions which solve a couple of these needs.

For example take a look on how other MMO's solve some of these issues for example. Some solutions are very clever or so simple, you wouldn't thought of it.

Edited by Zeror
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Posted (edited)

So how do you plan on treating the people who will be soft-locked out of the game because of this? I can think of a few groups. People with social anxiety (or other neurodiversities) who can't or don't want to engage with strangers on the internet but whose friends are not playing the game (and don't tell me they should just force their friends). People living in time zones where the game is much more dead and won't be able to find anyone to play even the most basic game with.

There are many reasons one would want to play the game alone, and the argument that it gives some kind of advantage is ridiculous and makes no sense at all. I can ask 3 friends, or I can play 4 characters alone - neither is an advantage over others, except for in the player count - which definitely shouldn't be blindly measured, because you probably get 0 from this situation instead otherwise.

Some things can greatly be handled by in-game solutions such as offline shops, leaving that client usable for other things. But there's no in-game solution for the acceptance that people are different, and "the experience" will be different for different people. You can't, or rather shouldn't, force people to engage with each other by making life miserable for those who don't want to or can't. That should come naturally from developing a good game. A game can have good and attractive multiplayer things, without taking a dump on solo players.

Edited by Wondertje
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I think your concern for solo players is absolutely valid, but solving this through multi-client play I cannot agree with.

38 minutes ago, Wondertje said:

So how do you plan on treating the people who will be soft-locked out of the game because of this? I can think of a few groups. People with social anxiety (or other neurodiversities) who can't or don't want to engage with strangers on the internet but whose friends are not playing the game (and don't tell me they should just force their friends). People living in time zones where the game is much more dead and won't be able to find anyone to play even the most basic game with.

Like any modern game, the balance just needs to be such that playing solo is viable and there is enough content one can do on their own. This is a multiplayer game and you cannot expect to be able to part-take in all the multiplayer-centred content (e.g. PvP or dungeons), if you're not willing to play with other people.

41 minutes ago, Wondertje said:

There are many reasons one would want to play the game alone, and the argument that it gives some kind of advantage is ridiculous and makes no sense at all. I can ask 3 friends, or I can play 4 characters alone - neither is an advantage over others, except for in the player count - which definitely shouldn't be blindly measured, because you probably get 0 from this situation instead otherwise.

Sharing experience and loot between 4 people and getting everything as one person is quite the difference, wouldn't you say? When I play with friends, everyone is advancing one character at a time and sharing the valuable drops. If you're playing by yourself, you get to advance multiple characters and keep all the valuables for yourself.

43 minutes ago, Wondertje said:

Some things can greatly be handled by in-game solutions such as offline shops, leaving that client usable for other things. But there's no in-game solution for the acceptance that people are different, and "the experience" will be different for different people. You can't, or rather shouldn't, force people to engage with each other by making life miserable for those who don't want to or can't. That should come naturally from developing a good game. A game can have good and attractive multiplayer things, without taking a dump on solo players.

I find it to be quite the stretch to equate expecting the normal gameplay to be one character - one person to taking a dump on solo players. As I said, I'm all for solo gameplay being viable, look at a game like Elder Scrolls Online e.g. where you can have hundreds of hours of singleplayer fun in a world with other people - but that content is not the same as the actual multiplayer content.

As soon as it is viable to do multiplayer content solo, it is by default the most efficient thing to do. Sure, you might still run with some friends for fun, but if I don't have to coordinate times with anyone, get to advance multiple characters and keep all the loot, it's just a waste to play with others. And removing the incentive to play with other people cannot be the solution to some people wanting to play multiplayer game by themselves.

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You'd notice that I did say that PvP areas were fine to limit or increase multiplayer needed in my previous post up there. I don't mind PvP/dungeons/instances being impossible to do alone, that makes sense. But some of the steps that are taken in development so far are also complicating the most basic things in the game, pvm and such. There is nothing wrong with wanting to encourage multiplayer, but I have never played another MMORPG that basically forces it. I played Guild Wars on my own, I played Runescape on my own. Playing an MMORPG solo actually takes time and skill and those games did/do well with their player base, it's not an issue at all.

Regarding the "farming puts all things into one player" - sure, but I've never seen an MMORPG where that doesn't happen anyway. Max level characters frequently carry their low-level friends, giving them all the items so they don't have to struggle as much. The concept of 1 player = all drops, won't be negated by any system that's set in place so far.

I'm well aware that ultimately it's not my decision, but I do know I'm not the only one with these opinions and thoughts so I might as well be the one to voice them.

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I'd like to add that if I have 4 characters out at once and am having to deal with all of them at the same time to continue progressing all  4 characters, you bet your ass I'm going to want my loot. I put in the work, therefore, I should get rewarded. Lol. 

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so the reason behind the 2clients max is this thing called dungeon? i don't know anything about it but if that is the case, why not MAC limit? 1 for that dungeon thing.
and if you do that dungeon thing, if it requires the players focus to not grief and leech, auto terminate other instances? maybe, idk what i am saying or how hard that might could be.
 

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On 7/8/2022 at 8:34 AM, Ed said:

or how hard that might could be.

Other servers do it, so it's definitely not impossible.
 

27 minutes ago, Andramias said:

You will play literaly ALONE if you are using 4 clients

And who is this a problem for? All of the argument for why it could be an issue are basically nonsensical and debunked at this point. If someone chooses to play alone that's their choice, I'm pretty sure they won't be unhappy with it if they make it - and that's really all that matters. Choice.

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, Wondertje said:

And who is this a problem for? All of the argument for why it could be an issue are basically nonsensical and debunked at this point. If someone chooses to play alone that's their choice, I'm pretty sure they won't be unhappy with it if they make it - and that's really all that matters. Choice.

Dudette, is great to play with others, especially on a ONLINE game... Many people like it.

Is easier, social, non botable... i mean all depends on the game and the interactions purpose of it, for example at path of exile, the party system is not relevant, but at lineage II is important as you life <<; at ROSE i would like use AI like in granado espada, to have multiple chars, but i think the game is greater having parties of real people.

Edited by Andramias
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5 hours ago, Andramias said:

Dudette, is great to play with others, especially on a ONLINE game... Many people like it.

Is easier, social, non botable... i mean all depends on the game and the interactions purpose of it, for example at path of exile, the party system is not relevant, but at lineage II is important as you life <<; at ROSE i would like use AI like in granado espada, to have multiple chars, but i think the game is greater having parties of real people.

Just because someone plays this game doesn’t mean they want to play with people. Whether or not it’s online is irrelevant. This game is not available/playable in an offline status.

Many people like it, yes.. but not everyone. 

Just because you believe the game is more enjoyable with a party of different people doesn’t mean that everyone should be forced to do what you believe is enjoyable. 

The only thing being argued here is give players a choice to do what they want. If they want to play alone with 4 of their characters at a time, then let them. They aren’t bothering anyone. 
 

 

Edited by Avatar
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I think the most legitimate argument to be made for limiting multi-client is botting/automation. We live in a time where this is only increasing in games and exploits are widespread in new games, let alone antiquated engines.. the most efficient way to deal with bots is to limit clients.. so two max makes sense and still provides people with the ability to box a Cleric if they want. I think it's a good balance of being reasonable and not quashing emergent gameplay like dual client completely outright.

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There are definitely ways to greatly minimise bots. I've played several games, of various sorts (some ROSE clients included) where the game simply won't start if it detects some of the most common bot/macro software on your computer running at the same time. Game won't start, or will disconnect of these programmes are started. It minimises not only bots, but also people who play with PvP macros that are out of the scope of how the game should be played.

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Posted (edited)
On 7/10/2022 at 12:53 AM, Wondertje said:

All of the argument for why it could be an issue are basically nonsensical and debunked at this point. If someone chooses to play alone that's their choice, I'm pretty sure they won't be unhappy with it if they make it

yes, im kinda greedy if it comes to drops XD, also cutting drops is just pain in the ass.

 

10 hours ago, il said:

with the ability to box a Cleric if they want.

so you mean u can open another client with an extra step? XD

i guess the most efficient way to catch a bot is to add a captcha on random clients, specially to those ones that not on focus on a long time.

 

Edited by Ed
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On 7/15/2022 at 10:05 PM, percent1 said:

There are already ip limits on dungeons that are completely separate from the 2 client limit

Good to know 👍

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