Personal feedback from an old player

[Oxaliis]

After two weeks on this new version of Rose, i don't know what to think. Rose is a game with the most weird development i have ever seen, i started playing it in February 2005, totally addicted i have witnessed almost every steps of the evolution of the game, tried almost every version post-irose. Every time little bits of the game was modified, and, except on private servers, those modifications was always by removing little things here here and here, instead of fixing and improving a truly awesome game. The worst version was by far the Narose version, but there was fans of it so maybe it's just a personal thing. And now, almost 20 years later, a whole new version, and it's disappointing, the 3D engine is most stable and clean that's sure, little QoL are nice (talking to a npc while riding, little things like that) but the gameplay ? Oh boy, the skills are interesting, but to have taken away his glory from the clerics is a very very wrong choice, to have focused the players on a very few spots to do repeatable quest again and again until moving to another tiny spot and repeat the same process for hours is soooo depressing. Almost nobody are taking drops anymore, because the farming is dead. I was really excited to replay my most favorite addiction on an official server, i personally never liked the fact to play on hacked versions of game (even if triggersoft/gravity themselves got some twisted lawsuits issues with the original conceptors of the game in 2004/2005), but it's another old story, but why having to radically change a version of the game everyone enjoy ? I don't get it, this game have some sort of curse. I hope this post does not offend the new owners of rose, they seems to love the game too, but guys, even if your nostalgia glasses have cracked, you have to admit a very large majority of potential players are Irose system fans and sadly, in this state, they probably come to test this new version to finally go back to "the server we don't say the name" to have fun.... like i do. I sincerely hope you found a way to inject real fun in the game. Sorry for the delirious english. (i want to insist on the fact i'm not a fervent supporter of Pservers at all, i have spent real money on official servers but never give a dime to others).

Edited March 2 by Oxaliis

[Luckystriike]

The game is early access. It will undergo significant changes in the upcoming months/years. Yes, these changes will make the game feel a bit different, but I trust the devs to maintain the same feel and look. There is nothing wrong with playing on different servers and trying out different games! Just stay updated and come back in a few weeks.

[kaiserkiva]

Nobody is looting because it’s probably their other char and not their main. If someone doesn’t loot it’s likely that they’re already rich. New players tend to loot much more though there’s nothing wrong with that.

Clerics are not buff slaves and having individual buffs for each class is a great improvement imo.

I do agree that repeatable quests and levelling in a few spots kinda sucks and it may even feel like it’s not an open world game. However, the alternative is fighting mobs without quests which takes longer to level up. Or doing other quests i.e. valor, obtain a pet and clan point quests but these do not give a lot of experience unfortunately. I think more repeatable and daily quests should be introduced in all maps to diversify levelling spots. And increasing experience gained from other types of quests should be implemented.

In low level areas, farming is quite dead. The usual farmers are likely high level chars killing kings for medallions or uniques. The game seems centred around end game for pvp and pvm/dungeons. Being low level does not seem as rewarding as being max level and the levelling phase feels like something most players want to get over with.

Btw, this is my perspective of this version of rose online and opinion on some of your points. The game surely has evolved and I can’t say for certain whether this version is better than the old. This is the only version that I’ve gone far into the game and so far it’s been fun after months of playing. So far you’ve only played 2 weeks. I think there’s a lot of content you may have missed. My advice is to keep playing and see how you get along from start to finish. The game is still in early access and more updates will come. Anyways, good luck, have fun and see you in game.

[Drezynit]

10 hours ago, Oxaliis said:

but to have taken away his glory from the clerics is a very very wrong choice, to have focused the players on a very few spots to do repeatable quest again and again until moving to another tiny spot and repeat the same process for hours is soooo depressing. Almost nobody are taking drops anymore, because the farming is dead.

 

Hello Oxaliis ,

Welcome back to this game, thank you very much for your feedback. Having spend most of our time on iRose version ourselves too and loving the game as much as you do, we share a lot of your feedback and frustration. This game still being on early access for now, we have the chance and time to still improve a lot of what you said before the official launch. While this version is very far from the iRose day, i think you nail the 2 big problems with the current state of the game

very few spots to do repeatable quest again and again:

We couldn't agree more, and we want to improve this linear experience of repeatable quest. While it is the most used route for leveling, players are not forced to do them, and can level up also going to other area. The problem is because there is no incentive for players to sacrifice a bit of XP from these quest to just level and try to loot some Mats/Stuff from other area. If we were to remove these repeatable for exemple, people will just go back to the most classic way of getting XP, focusing on area with the most mobs and who give the most XP.
But maybe the second point you made is also very linked to this "farming repeatable for xp" problem

nobody are taking drops anymore, because the farming is dead:

This version experienced a big Drop Revamp in his late stage before Rednim took this project, making the drops feel way to similar across mobs and Maps. While the idea was good on paper, players don't feel the need to farm some materials and items during their leveling like they used too, or farming feels all too similar across the game.
There are too many drops on mobs and mobs drop everything and nothing. There too many trash drops.
We have started to work on this problem to give back drop identity and meaning to mobs and maps. Fixing this will give incentive for players to go to other maps to farm specific items for different crafting recipes.
Also, making the artisan crafting kit more interesting and more things to craft should also help fix this problem. If there was more demande for specific items from artisans, people would feel the need to farm expensive materials on maybe more secluded maps

Removing of the Cleric buffs:

This is indeed a very controversial change that happened when we launched in Early access. Buffs were already spread on all classes and Cleric also had all the buffs too.
The buff are also nerfed massively compared to the iRose day.
We wanted to try to get away from this buff slave meta, knowing these buffs were not as much powerfull as they were. But we do also miss the feelings of buffing newbies.
While there is little chance that we would give Cleric theirs buffs back, they would still be weaker than the classes specific ones.


Rest assured that we are working hard and have plan already to improve a lot of what you said, because we play the game too and we couldn't agree more 

[Luckystriike]

8 minutes ago, Drezynit said:

Hello Oxaliis ,

Welcome back to this game, thank you very much for you feedback. Having play most of our time on iRose version ourselves too and loving the game as much as you do, we share a lot of your feedback and frustration. This game being still on early access for now, we have the chance and time to still improve a lot of what you said before the official launch. While this version is very far from the iRose day, i think you nail the 2 big problems with the current state of the game

very few spots to do repeatable quest again and again:

We couldn't agree more, and we want to improve this linear experience of repeatable quest. While it is the most used route for leveing, players are not force to do them, and can level up also going to other area. The problem is because there is no incentive for players to sacrifice a bit of XP from these quest to just level and try to looting some Mats/Stuff from other area. If we were to remove these repeatable for exemple, people will just go back to the most classic way of getting XP, focusing on area with the most mobs and who give the most XP.
But maybe the second point you made is also very linked to this "farming repeatable for xp" problem

nobody are taking drops anymore, because the farming is dead:

This version experienced a big Drop Revamp in his late stage before Rednim took this project, making the drops feel way to similar across mobs and Maps. While the idea was good on paper, players don't feel the need to farm some materials and items during there leveling like they used too, or farming feels all too similar across the game.
There are too many drops on mobsn mobs everything and nothing. There too many trash drops.
We have started to work on this problem to give back identity and meaning to mobs and map drop wise. Fixing this will give incentive for players to go to other maps to farm specific items for different crafting receipes.
Also, making the artisan crafting kit more interesting and more craft to do should also help fix this problem. If there was more demande for specific items from artisans, people would feel the need to farm expensive materials on maybe more secluded maps

Removing of the Cleric buffs:

This is indeed a very controversial change that happen when we launched in Early access. Buffs were already spread on all classes and Cleric also had all the buffs too.
The buff are also nerfed massively compared to the iRose day.
We wanted to try to get away from this buff slave feeling knowing these buffs were not as much powerfull as they were. But we do also miss the feelings of buffing newbies.
While there is little chance that we would give Cleric theirs buffs back, they would still be weaker than the classes specific ones.


Rest assured that we are working hard and have plan already to improve a lot of what you said, because we play the game too and we couldn't agree more 

Would be nice if the Arti crafts have more value. This would indeed bring back mat farming. 

[HilariousFace]

7 hours ago, Luckystriike said:

Would be nice if the Arti crafts have more value. This would indeed bring back mat farming. 

"The Artisan crafts with so little value" that you referred to is because they are non meta items, and the Artisan crafts that have high value is because they are meta items. A crow wing sell for 200k something but a Fallen Astarot Wing sells for 600m something. Besides the large amount of recipe required on the FAW, this heavy price discrepancy is due to the zulie distribution economy being mostly skewed towards Lv.200+, so many people make crap ton of Lv.200+ characters to spam these daily 2m zulie quest, and these people are not interested in non meta goods, the zulies are used on meta items such as Lv.200/240 accessory, Fall Astarot wing, max stat unique.

The reason why the game economy revolves and centered around Lv.250 is because this is where 1) PvP 2) farming max stat unique 3) dungeons grind 4) 2m daily quest grind 5) Clan point farm takes place, plus Artisan craft success rate is minimized at that level. If you move any of these key elements to lower level, people will complain there is nothing to do at high level.

Non meta Artisan crafts nowadays such as Reinforced armor, non max level shield/magictool/back item could only serve as leveling luxury gadgets at best and be used as costume.

And regarding "mats farming", we also need to be aware of potentially create a bot farmers scene where people just auto farm all their stuff. People are not picking up mats is because 90% of the things on the floor are junk, plus you can always disassemble to get the mats you want, the stuff on the floor sells for relatively little, considering spamming 2m daily quest is where it is at, back in the days you used to rely on Bourg's sales premium passive to generate more zulies.

 

[Ashura]

Judging from what everyone is saying is that there is no work around for any of these problems, if you take the one aspect away then another problem get created.

While reading these posts i thought about maybe if adding a level limiter on items would resolve the problem of only wearing/using certain items i.e unique weapons it is quite rare that once you have obtained a unique weapon that you will use another weapon until lvl200 unique weapon in some rare instances some deviate from this. A possible solution would be to give weapons as a quest reward but can only be used until a certain level or until the next quest unique weapon gets acquired but it is a bit of stretch though. A lot of frustration for the is related to certain character nerves to accommodate melee build chars who struggle in the PvP arena and considering that its a mainly a mini game to give you a break from questing and farming i just feel its making a lot of players who are not PvP orientated just give up on actually continuing the game.

The lack of zulie drop is a major concern for new players and also the fact that not a lot of low level items gets vended and at a cost effective price is also a deterrent. There were talks a few months back regarding artistry and introducing new designs to help improve the game but mainly most of them were introduced into IM and not really benefiting players who can not afford to purchase items. A balancing act would be to introduce these items into the IM upon creation lets say for about 2-3months and then make it an event item 9-12months later so that everyone can have a chance to get it, it might be a negative to the artist but at least it will show the community that not everything in ROSE is money driven.

There's a few more points but yeah lets leave it at that for now.  

[TheBlueEyedKing]

I'd like to toss my opinion in there since I am an old player that started recently playing again and has felt.. pretty useless.

So far my experience is thus, I started the character going through the quests and each zone feeling like I was getting the full experience. The levels and new mobs excited me as I proceeded through adventure plains all the way to Zant and Junon. I was pretty devastated by muse/cleric buff changes as well, I can understand the desire to not have them become buff bots, but at the same time.. I rolled a muse to .. do just that. I find it fun to buff people, heal, and give bonfires.

Here is what I have observed so far.. I didn't have any problems finding a party with random strangers who were just killing mobs, I struggled with money and still only have 50k zulie, unable to afford a car after the initial quest and killing 50 million clowns. (Joking, I am fine with this. It makes the reward sweeter.. except the whole no car thing so I can't use my new skill). Anyways, back to the initial thoughts/problems.. I pick up all the drops and slap most of it into storage and I am sure I could have made extra money selling my dirty items to shops, I wanted to hold onto it to use for crafting for later use. The only problem is, unless I roll a craft I can't use those materials. Personally, I always thought that a single class focused on crafting was probably just as dumb as most peoples opinions on buff bots. I don't have any ideas to fix that because dealers identities are centered around that kind of dogma. I would love for all classes to be able to craft and use materials and to rework the artisan class into something new and cool. No idea what, but I can't remember any other game where I had some basic materials on and went over to a crafting table and couldn't make new items. I understand the idea was to make it unique just like a tank can tank.. a healer can heal.. but crafting being held behind a class has always felt weird to me. Anyways, enough about that.

I want to move on to the buffbot conversation because I have fond memories of that, yet I see the glaring problem with it. I personally loved buffing noobs like you mentioned above, but also see the problems of it being so strong that when the buffs wore off I felt terrible, too weak, too slow, too defenseless, no regen. Literally felt unplayable. I also noticed that... there are still buff bots and clerics following people around. I have seen so many people macroing/boting multiple heroes just spamming aoe and group heal abilities. I attached a picture of myself looking for a party and getting rejected because I had a wand. My role was useless. They already had an insanely high level cleric that can heal and provide buffs.. my character was completely not needed I felt unwelcome and all my time had been wasted. Also, what's with the whole group/party thing? Groups can provide buffs but don't share experience? Again, as a returning player the whole thing felt confusing to me. In every game I have always played they were one in the same. If you were to have multiple parties join it would be considered a raid, which in previous games I have played were usually indicated by a different color, or have the whole raid names be purple. (EQ2). Now I am left with the urge of quitting, I can't kill anything without taking 30mins because I wanted to be hard support, my heals/bonfires aren't needed because peoples high level clerics, and my buffs are weaker because they have higher stats on their max level clerics they can just group with. I have seen many people address this with different ideas.. personally the ones I liked were to allow buffs on randoms, but significantly decrease their effects with non partied individuals.. and if a cleric joins a group to buff, immediately remove them when leaving.. but this wouldnt really work since any level can join a group it seems. (None of the grouping was explained in the tutorial at all so I have no idea what it is compared to a party still), or to have the buffs be very short term, while this is a cool idea, it would get annoying I think if it was EVERY buff. The idea of the usual 15 minute buffs in addition to other buffs to make people really feel stronger again might work, or maybe as some have mentioned debuffs on mobs. Such as an aoe heal radius, and every mob in that radius reduces magic resistance or something. I am not sure what the right answer is, but just giving my first person experience so far. (Side note, restore/heal icons look really weird.. ESPECIALLY the heal/party heal.. it looks like a pair of weird AI toes and just gives me an off feeling.) but anyways, (Don't worry I am almost done) Again, I know the current developers love the game.. I can see it how they read everything and even how they write shows they clearly care and are tossing around ideas in the ol noodle. I am not sure giving each class their own buffs works either, the only other character I have is a soldier and my experience with it (Same path of questing) was that I had shoveled everything into passives or I was wayyy to weak. My attacks felt weak, my armor didn't feel great, and my skills also felt pretty weak even though every stat point was in STR. (Food also felt terrible considering its cost). Luckily sitting is OP for regen, but I don't like waiting forever.  I am not sure how to feel about it at the moment.

Side note, my heals are all maxed and incredibly weak. Some people have 2-4k hp and my heals do like 150-200 maxed.. the heal over time is good but it doesn't heal on the initial cast which is super weird.

Side note side note, have krawfys always been non aggro? I could have sworn you just needed to run around to get a bunch of them. Sorry about the long rant. I hope it doesn't come off as preachy.. but playing today just made me.. sad..

[kaiserkiva]

27 minutes ago, Seanos said:

I'd like to toss my opinion in there since I am an old player that started recently playing again and has felt.. pretty useless.

So far my experience is thus, I started the character going through the quests and each zone feeling like I was getting the full experience. The levels and new mobs excited me as I proceeded through adventure plains all the way to Zant and Junon. I was pretty devastated by muse/cleric buff changes as well, I can understand the desire to not have them become buff bots, but at the same time.. I rolled a muse to .. do just that. I find it fun to buff people, heal, and give bonfires.

Here is what I have observed so far.. I didn't have any problems finding a party with random strangers who were just killing mobs, I struggled with money and still only have 50k zulie, unable to afford a car after the initial quest and killing 50 million clowns. (Joking, I am fine with this. It makes the reward sweeter.. except the whole no car thing so I can't use my new skill). Anyways, back to the initial thoughts/problems.. I pick up all the drops and slap most of it into storage and I am sure I could have made extra money selling my dirty items to shops, I wanted to hold onto it to use for crafting for later use. The only problem is, unless I roll a craft I can't use those materials. Personally, I always thought that a single class focused on crafting was probably just as dumb as most peoples opinions on buff bots. I don't have any ideas to fix that because dealers identities are centered around that kind of dogma. I would love for all classes to be able to craft and use materials and to rework the artisan class into something new and cool. No idea what, but I can't remember any other game where I had some basic materials on and went over to a crafting table and couldn't make new items. I understand the idea was to make it unique just like a tank can tank.. a healer can heal.. but crafting being held behind a class has always felt weird to me. Anyways, enough about that.

I want to move on to the buffbot conversation because I have fond memories of that, yet I see the glaring problem with it. I personally loved buffing noobs like you mentioned above, but also see the problems of it being so strong that when the buffs wore off I felt terrible, too weak, too slow, too defenseless, no regen. Literally felt unplayable. I also noticed that... there are still buff bots and clerics following people around. I have seen so many people macroing/boting multiple heroes just spamming aoe and group heal abilities. I attached a picture of myself looking for a party and getting rejected because I had a wand. My role was useless. They already had an insanely high level cleric that can heal and provide buffs.. my character was completely not needed I felt unwelcome and all my time had been wasted. Also, what's with the whole group/party thing? Groups can provide buffs but don't share experience? Again, as a returning player the whole thing felt confusing to me. In every game I have always played they were one in the same. If you were to have multiple parties join it would be considered a raid, which in previous games I have played were usually indicated by a different color, or have the whole raid names be purple. (EQ2). Now I am left with the urge of quitting, I can't kill anything without taking 30mins because I wanted to be hard support, my heals/bonfires aren't needed because peoples high level clerics, and my buffs are weaker because they have higher stats on their max level clerics they can just group with. I have seen many people address this with different ideas.. personally the ones I liked were to allow buffs on randoms, but significantly decrease their effects with non partied individuals.. and if a cleric joins a group to buff, immediately remove them when leaving.. but this wouldnt really work since any level can join a group it seems. (None of the grouping was explained in the tutorial at all so I have no idea what it is compared to a party still), or to have the buffs be very short term, while this is a cool idea, it would get annoying I think if it was EVERY buff. The idea of the usual 15 minute buffs in addition to other buffs to make people really feel stronger again might work, or maybe as some have mentioned debuffs on mobs. Such as an aoe heal radius, and every mob in that radius reduces magic resistance or something. I am not sure what the right answer is, but just giving my first person experience so far. (Side note, restore/heal icons look really weird.. ESPECIALLY the heal/party heal.. it looks like a pair of weird AI toes and just gives me an off feeling.) but anyways, (Don't worry I am almost done) Again, I know the current developers love the game.. I can see it how they read everything and even how they write shows they clearly care and are tossing around ideas in the ol noodle. I am not sure giving each class their own buffs works either, the only other character I have is a soldier and my experience with it (Same path of questing) was that I had shoveled everything into passives or I was wayyy to weak. My attacks felt weak, my armor didn't feel great, and my skills also felt pretty weak even though every stat point was in STR. (Food also felt terrible considering its cost). Luckily sitting is OP for regen, but I don't like waiting forever.  I am not sure how to feel about it at the moment.

Side note, my heals are all maxed and incredibly weak. Some people have 2-4k hp and my heals do like 150-200 maxed.. the heal over time is good but it doesn't heal on the initial cast which is super weird.

Side note side note, have krawfys always been non aggro? I could have sworn you just needed to run around to get a bunch of them. Sorry about the long rant. I hope it doesn't come off as preachy.. but playing today just made me.. sad..

If they don’t invite you cus you have wand. Buy a staff and reset your skills to aoe. It’s about you adapting to their party and not them adapting to you. Muse heals are weak. I agree with that. But you can use your summons to tank for you and kite mobs. 

[DaWei]

I was disappointed to find out that crafted stats have a tier restriction now...

One of my most favorite things to do, albeit 7 years ago, was craft max stat noob gear for fun. It would help new players out a lot, and make a lot of fun for me killing things!
 

Sigh....

 

With some work It can still be done to a degree, with uniques... but not the same.

Edited March 10 by DaWei

[HoneyBuns]

1 minute ago, DaWei said:

I was disappointed to find out that crafted stats have a tier restriction now...

One of my most favorite things to do, albeit 7 years ago, was craft max stat noob gear for fun. It would help new players out a lot, and make a lot of fun for me killing things!
 

Sigh....

 

With some work It can still be done to a degree, with uniques... but not the same.

There was a bug when the big substat change happened back at NA and that bug was later fixed. You were never supposed to be able to get max substats on low level gear. 

[DaWei]

2 minutes ago, HoneyBuns said:

There was a bug when the big substat change happened back at NA and that bug was later fixed. You were never supposed to be able to get max substats on low level gear. 

Pretty long lasting bug then. I was crafting it for awhile. I feel like it should still be a thing... it's a lot of fun to have a powerful low level character haha

Edited March 10 by DaWei

[HoneyBuns]

@Seanos Thanks for sharing your experiences.  Many people do still dual client with a muse and fighter, mostly for the heals.  I'm sorry you've had some trouble joining parties. Remember, we have free and unlimited stat and skill resets now.  It can be a bit of a hassle but when you are unable to join a party, you can reset your muse to fight/ Muses can do pretty well on that front and you can always reset to be a healer when you join a party.

[HilariousFace]

40 minutes ago, Seanos said:

I struggled with money and still only have 50k zulie, unable to afford a car after the initial quest and killing 50 million clowns. (Joking, I am fine with this. It makes the reward sweeter.. except the whole no car thing so I can't use my new skill).

  I was the same, but later after playing the game for awhile, I realized in this version of ROSE, you have to go to nearby NPC to obtain quest in order to get zulies. If you are standing there in a party leveling, you will run into that problem of having no zulies to do anything. There needs to be some hint somewhere to a new player where to earn zulies where most people gathered.

40 minutes ago, Seanos said:

I pick up all the drops and slap most of it into storage and I am sure I could have made extra money selling my dirty items to shops, I wanted to hold onto it to use for crafting for later use. The only problem is, unless I roll a craft I can't use those materials. Personally, I always thought that a single class focused on crafting was probably just as dumb as most peoples opinions on buff bots. I don't have any ideas to fix that because dealers identities are centered around that kind of dogma. I would love for all classes to be able to craft and use materials and to rework the artisan class into something new and cool. No idea what, but I can't remember any other game where I had some basic materials on and went over to a crafting table and couldn't make new items. I understand the idea was to make it unique just like a tank can tank.. a healer can heal.. but crafting being held behind a class has always felt weird to me.

  I share the same thoughts with you, I also believe the whole crafting and artisan craft skill tab should be accessible by any class. The idea of peasants farming the mats and trade to Artisan class sounds nice on paper, but in reality it just gives elite player to rip new players off, you will sell your mats for cheap but won't be able to afford anything.

40 minutes ago, Seanos said:

I attached a picture of myself looking for a party and getting rejected because I had a wand. My role was useless. They already had an insanely high level cleric that can heal and provide buffs.. my character was completely not needed I felt unwelcome and all my time had been wasted. Also, what's with the whole group/party thing? Groups can provide buffs but don't share experience?

  The group thing was originally designed for large scale Game Arena PvP I believe, a group is just a group that shares buffs, chat, a more advanced UI to see each other status like levels, class. It was never intended to be used for high levels to buff noobs. Strictly speaking, if they disable grouping for people 19 levels apart, it will be a disaster to level up without these high levels providing strong buffs, but they have to allow such thing because leveling will be extremely depressing with the low player activity engaging in leveling since most players reached 250 already. It's just like how they need to allow and recommend you to play this game by dual clienting.

40 minutes ago, Seanos said:

My attacks felt weak, my armor didn't feel great, and my skills also felt pretty weak even though every stat point was in STR. (Food also felt terrible considering its cost). Luckily sitting is OP for regen, but I don't like waiting forever.  I am not sure how to feel about it at the moment.

Side note, my heals are all maxed and incredibly weak. Some people have 2-4k hp and my heals do like 150-200 maxed.. the heal over time is good but it doesn't heal on the initial cast which is super weird.

  This is the consequence of power creep development from years ago in Gravity Interactive NA ROSE, if you use yellow text weapon/equipment, it will feel like what you mentioned. In order to not feel weak/great, you have to use Unique weapon (+8% PvM Offense) or Hardened weapon (+5% PvM Offense), and Reinforced armor (+15% PvM Defense for whole set), all of which are not accessible to a brand new player. Also, yellow text weapon/equipment have (+0% PvM Offense/defense), over a long period of time of development these yellow text items are obsolete by blue and unique equipment. And the biggest reason you felt weak is because, you just simply should not kill everything by yourself, you have to be in big parties.

And regarding weak heals, I'm not sure what happened, but probably it suffered the same problem as buffs where you cannot live without buffs, so adjustment were made since heals causes stalemate in PvP game arena something like that. Clerics should only be supportive, not a primary factor to keep someone alive.

[TheBlueEyedKing]

I appreciate the responses.

I don't feel like a respec should be the answer regardless of it being free. Imagine if that option wasn't the available. I am aware of the summons being available for help soloing.
However, I think the point of their high level buffer being in their group covering literally everything I offered with a wand/cleric build except in a much more powerful way still stands.

It's pretty cool somebody agrees with me about the crafting thing.

I am using blue armor from the quests.

Perhaps I will try again in the future.

Thank you for the feedback.

[Ashura]

This is the problem i have with a lot of things in the game where you decide on a playing style and its just so easy to say (IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT JUST RESET!!!) that is hardly the issue at hand. We should accept each and every character with their strengths and weakness and find a way to help each other to make the game enjoyable for everyone.

@Seanos wrote how he felt about the changes of the game and how it negatively impacted his experience and the next comment is trade in your wand for a stave and spam AoE's not that i am trying to point a finger at @kaiserkirva's comment but that is in general the consensus of a lot games nowadays.

[Ashura]

19 hours ago, HilariousFace said:

 

 

 

 I was the same, but later after playing the game for awhile, I realized in this version of ROSE, you have to go to nearby NPC to obtain quest in order to get zulies. If you are standing there in a party leveling, you will run into that problem of having no zulies to do anything. There needs to be some hint somewhere to a new player where to earn zulies where most people gathered.

I agree wholeheartedly with this their should be a way for newer players to find the best way to make money in the game, the disheartening fact about it all the quest was adjusted because of the zulie exploit.

I share the same thoughts with you, I also believe the whole crafting and artisan craft skill tab should be accessible by any class. The idea of peasants farming the mats and trade to Artisan class sounds nice on paper, but in reality it just gives elite player to rip new players off, you will sell your mats for cheap but won't be able to afford anything.

This is something i have been speaking about for a while now and was one of the players who advocated for implementing an Auction House to try and curb the exploit of the current player market which is being dictated by the community not that it is something bad entirely but it would have made things easier on multiple fronts i.e having price competition and driving down market prices and also helps players utilize their time searching for gear and jewelry and focus more on leveling and also implementing a system that helps new players sell their items at higher prices. I know this can also become a pitfall in regards to the market can stagnate and just keep pricing at a premium.

The group thing was originally designed for large scale Game Arena PvP I believe, a group is just a group that shares buffs, chat, a more advanced UI to see each other status like levels, class. It was never intended to be used for high levels to buff noobs. Strictly speaking, if they disable grouping for people 19 levels apart, it will be a disaster to level up without these high levels providing strong buffs, but they have to allow such thing because leveling will be extremely depressing with the low player activity engaging in leveling since most players reached 250 already. It's just like how they need to allow and recommend you to play this game by dual clienting.

Not necessarily remember the very first iteration of players did not have high level chars to work off of and just used their knowledge of the game and probably from being Alpha testers to get an advantage over those who don't but most of those testers shared the information either via Twitch stream or the Official Discord channels. So with this i will not be too critical.

This is the consequence of power creep development from years ago in Gravity Interactive NA ROSE, if you use yellow text weapon/equipment, it will feel like what you mentioned. In order to not feel weak/great, you have to use Unique weapon (+8% PvM Offense) or Hardened weapon (+5% PvM Offense), and Reinforced armor (+15% PvM Defense for whole set), all of which are not accessible to a brand new player. Also, yellow text weapon/equipment have (+0% PvM Offense/defense), over a long period of time of development these yellow text items are obsolete by blue and unique equipment. And the biggest reason you felt weak is because, you just simply should not kill everything by yourself, you have to be in big parties.

This is the current games meta and it is a shame that it has come to this, the one silver lining is that refining a unique is not as rewarding as a refining any other weapon in terms of power scaling but this can be used a positive in terms of making the power scaling far higher in normal to rare weapons to combat the lack of added natural boonus stats you get from using rare or reinforced weapons to balance things out. The need to be in a party aspect of the game is not a necessity but it helps improve the experience of it and should perhaps have a better rewards system for players leveling solo as to the constant need to co-play, i enjoy solo leveling and sometimes hate it for the constant request to party sometimes i just buff them and then leave the party again.

And regarding weak heals, I'm not sure what happened, but probably it suffered the same problem as buffs where you cannot live without buffs, so adjustment were made since heals causes stalemate in PvP game arena something like that. Clerics should only be supportive, not a primary factor to keep someone alive.

Should not have been a by product of the game could have been handled better but yeah that is the beauty of hindsight at the end of the day. I did suggest mixing up the different buffs instead of just going the normal AP/soldier, AS/hawker, ACC/dealer,  etc. rather give what each class needs and this way make them all valuable to the party where each class needs each other.

Unfortunately the current version is dictating that the Cleric becomes a heal slave instead playing the supportive role.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 11 by Ashura

[TheBlueEyedKing]

I appreciate you trying to understand my point of view. I thought I presented it in a clear and coherent manner. The immediate follow up comment was disappointing, but that's alright I understand not everybody thinks the same way and there will be others with differing views.

Your responses were well thought out, so I wanted to respond to them because I like conversation.

So I did notice the lack of zulie boxes as drops, funny enough I didn't notice it until like level 35 or so.. but I wasn't sure why that change was made.

Personally, as I was playing through the early quests I was enjoying the rewards of unique weapons, food for the easy early quests, and then in valley of luxem tower I started getting armor as a reward where I was able to pick the stats I wanted. I thought this was really cool and made me feel very rewarded for my hard work. It didn't have to be the best armor, but a little better than the purchased armor at the merchant was great. Btw, What you both said about the power creep really felt true. I was playing a soldier, I was partied with my friend as a hawker and we were in breezy fields doing dalping quests. I know they hit pretty hard but I had about 2k HP as a soldier and at level 29 the best food I could eat were grapes.. between every fight I had to eat about 4-5 grapes or sit down for 10+ seconds.. not saying I should be invincible by any means.. but I wish the zulie box drops were still there to pad the need for food. I cant afford to eat 1-2k zulie of grapes every few monsters haha. I was able to kill them, the damage wasn't so much of an issue.. although we both felt rather weak and had to attack the same mob at the same time so we didn't take too much damage.

I also wanted to say I understand people dual client a muse at the same time... but dual clienting I don't think is the most common state of almost all games played today. If that becomes a requirement, I would say its probably an issue.. but I am not a game developer and don't have any experience in this area.

One of the solutions I would propose to the lack of zulie drops would probably be having mobs drop junk.. stuff that is meant to be sold and in a separate tab. In my current experience, I could get more money if I went and sold everything to a vendor or various player shops.. but I do like keeping stuff to an extent, and I can't even afford to store it atm because for a new player the storage fee is absolutely insane. I literally just spent 80k zulie storing stuff... and yeah that might not be a lot with people tossing around millions.. but again, I am trying to look at this through the eyes of a new player character because... I am. This is a new account and I haven't played in like 12-13 years.

A couple minor UI things if you are using a 4k monitor the UI scaling resets every time and I have to move my skill bars and chat box.. this is very minor and I don't mind it much. Also, the skill tab has a lot of empty tabs which make it confusing/redundant.. The Basic/Job tabs are great.. but parts has a huge box for just...the cart skill.. and castle gear has its own separate tab for the same thing. I would personally remove the parts tab and put those in basic. Unique tab? If there are unique skills.. I am not sure how I would package it but its also weird to have bunch of huge empty tabs. Again, it's cluttering and confusing. Item mall. Same thing. This might just be a personal problem because I am dumb, but I like things to be neat and tidy. lol.

There is also no tutorial for a lot of stuff.. I was able to see this from my friend playing who had never experienced this kind of stuff... What is a drill? What is all this dirty stuff? What do I do with it? Is this useful? What is ok to sell and what should I keep? What is refining? There should be early quests in zant to teach people what all this stuff is...it can also help bridge the gap of strength.

Another thing I wanted to respond to is the idea of a marketplace... personally, I don't like this idea even if it might be the best option for trading. Mainly because the shops littered around are kinda what adds to the charm of rose in my opinion.. however, I think a cool idea would be to allow the setting up of a single shop per account without actually having to be there or logged in, or even as virtual shops as you want but with the idea of upkeep.. this would dissuade people from creating a million accounts just for shops, or having infinite shops with overpriced items that never sell.. if you pay an upkeep for a virtual shop or 5 virtual shops.. it would give incentive to actually move products around since it would also be costing to set up that shop. Who knows. I am not sure how this would be done or implemented.. but if I go out and fight some stuff.. and I found some cool dark chrome armor I wanted to list for sale to somebody that might want/need it. I don't have time to leave a shop and my computer open all day, but if I could set up a shop, click it, and put the items/prices I want in there and then leave to go fight stuff again.. that would be pretty freakin cool. (I just realized offline vending has been discussed before but I don't know if it was ever implemented).

The questing and area progression was pretty amazing, but I do not like repeatable quests at all and I have noticed the quests fell off hard as soon as I got to junon.. all the quests were something along the lines of.. "Take this so a previous area" or "Go kill this random mob in a place" but repeatable. It didn't feel like they had a direction or progression that was easy to follow. The direction up to that point was FANTASTIC. I loved the characters, the direction, the rewards, the leveling/pacing felt great. I felt like I got to see every mob. (Except maybe I would add a little more in verloon and lake anima). but regardless.. I was gripped to my seat fighting cute monsters and doing quests to help people. Maybe people I partied with were also doing them so I was never alone and it was the most important thing a game needs... is to be fun! I think I mentioned in a previous post about how other classes having buffs may balance that out across the characters and I can understand that decision, albeit despite sacrificing clerics, but adding those abilities to other classes also detracts from them in a way.. they were something I felt I HAD to get on my soldier which just felt.. bad.. considering the other skills in the two handed tree were redone so well. I was like ohh man an attack boost after a certain amount of hits? That is freaking genius. I wanna be a two handed sword slinging gigachad but I am was level 35 or so and I had to put every single point into passives to be able to do enough damage to kill a mob because my attack skills were so weak they weren't worth getting.. and besides I was already spending all of my money on grapes, I couldn't afford to pump magic point drinks too. xD haha.

Anyways, as I said before I am mainly posting my experiences so far and I am not the developer nor am I trying to be.

Right now I am sitting here thinking about what I want to do because I don't have enough money to put everything into storage, wondering how to find better level 70 muse gear than the yellow store bought ones...

One of the games I played EQ2 in the past allowed everybody to have a crafting subclass... and at level 10 you specialize, and at level 20 you specialize again. Before level 10 you can make everything for level 1-9 (Artisan), Level 10 they can become a craftsman, outfitter, or scholar.. which can make stuff for people level 10-19 depending on their chosen class... This kept things diverse so not everybody can craft everything they need and allows different items and materials to be marketed through the game. I am not saying it needs to be like that.. but again, I am left with these materials that are literally worthless unless I sell them or roll an artisan, and I surely cant afford to use them on upgrading my low level gear because it is SUPER expensive to do that.

but again, the whole point that I spent all the time writing this out wasn't because I want somebody to say "Just respec, or dual client, or just sell it all to artisans since you can't do anything with it anyways" it was just to give me feedback on experience of returning to the game. I think if I were to play a different game and run into those issues, or have somebody pose the listed solutions.. I would just quit because it isn't worth it. That isn't fun.

I remember so many times on my previous account just hanging out in verloon killing the aqua monsters/king, moldies, clowns, krawfys, little stone golems, luna bears, ghosts, underground prison.. all of the time I was just happy to be hanging out with people killing stuff. I couldn't care less about the pvp aspect of the game.. min-maxing has never been my cup of tea. The very notion that the gear has different pvp and pve stats is just weird to me. For somebody that just wants pvm it just adds clutter to descriptions, but to each their own. I am sure a lot of people like it as well.

The music, the environments, the cool monsters, seeing shops everywhere, seeing my first cart and castle gear (WHOAA WHAT IS THATTTT!?!?!) and hanging out with friends while slaying monsters is what made the game fun to me. Most of that aspect of the game is still there.

Again, thank you for the feedback.

[Heatfist]

37 minutes ago, Seanos said:

One of the solutions I would propose to the lack of zulie drops would probably be having mobs drop junk.

This is actually the case. Looking at your storage you kept a lot of these junk drops. 
Due to the lack of tutorials and ways to figure out what’s actually junk and what’s relevant materials does make it hard for new players.

@Luckystriike has made a mod that can show you what are trash drops and what are relevant crafting materials. You can check that out in the mods section!

If you don’t like using mods the alternative to figuring out what to keep and what to NPC is to make a Dealer and check each crafting skill option and see what mats are required as well as checking the refining NPCs too for what they need for an item placed into the refining system. You can also dissemble equip drops like gear and weapons for crafting materials too.

A lot of the game is currently undergoing changes. Previous development had a lot of pay to win focus which is a result of most of the negative aspects in the game currently. 

The game having ancient code is also a major issue to many problems as well. The current team have been doing a great job fixing things up, but there’s a lot of work to be done and will still require a lot of time.

This is still not the official release of the game and shouldn’t be taken too seriously so trial and error your way through the game and figure things out as you play until tutorials and other helpful changes get added. If there’s any ideas you’d like to add and share that haven’t been mentioned yet post them in the ideas section!

[TheBlueEyedKing]

I definitely understand the game is still being worked on.

I have no disdain at all towards the devs and think its cool they are working hard on sorting these things out.

I thought everything that dropped had a use since it was in the material tab. I was taking the name of the tab Material too literal with the definition haha.

Sorry for that assumption. Thank you for pointing me in the right direction. I will check that out mod so I can get rid of the stuff I don't need. Kinda bummed I spent like 90k on storing junk now. haha. Live and learn ya know? 

[Ashura]

Its not your fault the drop table and the dealer/artisan class still has to be looked at overall a lot of these materials had a use in some or other iteration of Rose so your PoR will most likely be from which edition you migrated.

There is a quest in El Verloon from i think Orias where you kill 20-40 rackies which rewards you with health vials, it is a repeatable however.

The Rose community is also helping tremendously to improve the game and trying new innovative ideas to help with creating an enjoyable environment for all.

Also there are a lot of helpful and friendly Roserians (not you Roserian) in the games official discord channel who is more than willing to help and also try and join a clan if you can to help with gear and other items that you can use.

[Trinidad]

7 hours ago, Seanos said:

I thought everything that dropped had a use since it was in the material tab. I was taking the name of the tab Material too literal with the definition haha.

Sorry for that assumption. Thank you for pointing me in the right direction. I will check that out mod so I can get rid of the stuff I don't need. Kinda bummed I spent like 90k on storing junk now. haha. Live and learn ya know? 

It would also help if more ppl crafted things other than wings, masks, potions, ammo and gems.  Unfortunately, it seems that most folks rush as fast as possible to level up so there is seemingly no market for lower level things, including the mats to produce them.

I bought an inexpensive crafted Turtle Backshield in Zant and was happy to do it!  In Junon, a crafter of arrows, ammo and such needed animal leg bones and some metal so I was pleased to unload mine for a little more money although I was previously saving that metal in case I wanted to try crafting later.  ^  ^

[Ashura]

8 hours ago, Trinidad said:

It would also help if more ppl crafted things other than wings, masks, potions, ammo and gems.  Unfortunately, it seems that most folks rush as fast as possible to level up so there is seemingly no market for lower level things, including the mats to produce them.

I bought an inexpensive crafted Turtle Backshield in Zant and was happy to do it!  In Junon, a crafter of arrows, ammo and such needed animal leg bones and some metal so I was pleased to unload mine for a little more money although I was previously saving that metal in case I wanted to try crafting later.  ^  ^

Nice experience i like to help out players as well if i have mats to hand them to craft items, i am currently using a buffalo backshield on my mage wish i could actually use different ones but that is mainly on certain levels that we can equip them.

A lot of players new and old do miss a lot of the Rose experience by breezing through game trying to reach max level and when they have to solo play or start a new character trying to do the storyline etc they get bored quickly because they are not use to struggling and revert back to the fast paced group/party aspect of the game and then a different set of boredom sets in.

My very first character is a scout stuck on lvl178 my 2nd character is a level 248 cleric and then i have a few mid 150-170 as well, i am honestly struggling to level my scout because the character/class does not feel the same i do not get the same enjoyment i use to have. Partying could resolve the issue but that would feel like a cop-out.

[Oxaliis]

On 3/2/2024 at 2:50 PM, Drezynit said:

Hello Oxaliis ,

Welcome back to this game, thank you very much for your feedback. Having spend most of our time on iRose version ourselves too and loving the game as much as you do, we share a lot of your feedback and frustration. This game still being on early access for now, we have the chance and time to still improve a lot of what you said before the official launch. While this version is very far from the iRose day, i think you nail the 2 big problems with the current state of the game

very few spots to do repeatable quest again and again:

We couldn't agree more, and we want to improve this linear experience of repeatable quest. While it is the most used route for leveling, players are not forced to do them, and can level up also going to other area. The problem is because there is no incentive for players to sacrifice a bit of XP from these quest to just level and try to loot some Mats/Stuff from other area. If we were to remove these repeatable for exemple, people will just go back to the most classic way of getting XP, focusing on area with the most mobs and who give the most XP.
But maybe the second point you made is also very linked to this "farming repeatable for xp" problem

nobody are taking drops anymore, because the farming is dead:

This version experienced a big Drop Revamp in his late stage before Rednim took this project, making the drops feel way to similar across mobs and Maps. While the idea was good on paper, players don't feel the need to farm some materials and items during their leveling like they used too, or farming feels all too similar across the game.
There are too many drops on mobs and mobs drop everything and nothing. There too many trash drops.
We have started to work on this problem to give back drop identity and meaning to mobs and maps. Fixing this will give incentive for players to go to other maps to farm specific items for different crafting recipes.
Also, making the artisan crafting kit more interesting and more things to craft should also help fix this problem. If there was more demande for specific items from artisans, people would feel the need to farm expensive materials on maybe more secluded maps

Removing of the Cleric buffs:

This is indeed a very controversial change that happened when we launched in Early access. Buffs were already spread on all classes and Cleric also had all the buffs too.
The buff are also nerfed massively compared to the iRose day.
We wanted to try to get away from this buff slave meta, knowing these buffs were not as much powerfull as they were. But we do also miss the feelings of buffing newbies.
While there is little chance that we would give Cleric theirs buffs back, they would still be weaker than the classes specific ones.


Rest assured that we are working hard and have plan already to improve a lot of what you said, because we play the game too and we couldn't agree more 

I still don't get why you bother so much about drops, cleric powerful buffs and everything else, the fact is, Irose is generous, Irose is fun, Irose is addictive. Cleric buffs are powerful ? Yes, and IT IS fun, it is fun to chain kill mobs like a mad rabbit on steroids, it's fun to buff lil newbs and watch them overkilling mobs, (ah, another thing removed, no more overkill on mobs ? Are you sure it was REALLY necessary to remove this very tiny xp bonus ?). It's fun to have something to farm here, then running to another spot to farm something else, It's fun to have almost always something to do when you are bored of a place or mobs.Also, give us back  the old refine system, remove those atrocious bindrunes, remove the valor point system and you'll see suddenly coming back a massive interest to farm. The sad thing is you have made some really good change and addition (seeing the village in valley of luxem tower populated was awesome) Take the Irose version, improve/fix all the little flaws it got here here and here, and boom, i'm pretty sure you can attract a massive amount of players, even in 2024. New players, and old players who didn't like the overall ambiance of the actual only Irose private server, but i have to admit they have made some good things too, like the reborn system (maybe they have stolen the idea on another official server ? Jrose maybe ? don't know, but it's a very good idea for super addicted people). I wish you the best, seriously, but in this state the game is like an almost dead body on life support.

[kaiserkiva]

2 hours ago, Oxaliis said:

I still don't get why you bother so much about drops, cleric powerful buffs and everything else, the fact is, Irose is generous, Irose is fun, Irose is addictive. Cleric buffs are powerful ? Yes, and IT IS fun, it is fun to chain kill mobs like a mad rabbit on steroids, it's fun to buff lil newbs and watch them overkilling mobs, (ah, another thing removed, no more overkill on mobs ? Are you sure it was REALLY necessary to remove this very tiny xp bonus ?). It's fun to have something to farm here, then running to another spot to farm something else, It's fun to have almost always something to do when you are bored of a place or mobs.Also, give us back  the old refine system, remove those atrocious bindrunes, remove the valor point system and you'll see suddenly coming back a massive interest to farm. The sad thing is you have made some really good change and addition (seeing the village in valley of luxem tower populated was awesome) Take the Irose version, improve/fix all the little flaws it got here here and here, and boom, i'm pretty sure you can attract a massive amount of players, even in 2024. New players, and old players who didn't like the overall ambiance of the actual only Irose private server, but i have to admit they have made some good things too, like the reborn system (maybe they have stolen the idea on another official server ? Jrose maybe ? don't know, but it's a very good idea for super addicted people). I wish you the best, seriously, but in this state the game is like an almost dead body on life support.

It’s time to move on. Sticking to tradition will not suddenly bring back or attract new players or players playing more. New content = more players and playing time. Reborn system will make classes hard to balance so it may not be a good idea. Regarding the lack of zullie it can be fix with more repeatable quests that gives zullie as rewards. I believe there’s no zullie quests in Luna and only a few in eldeon. There is also no levelling/zullie quests in gorge of silence and dessert of the dead for levels 80-100. So more of what game already has should be implemented. Imo, I don’t think it’s the grind that makes the game fun, it’s more on the progress of your character and exploration of the game. Without this, the game is monotonous and players will get bored.

I should mention also that theres a bigger problem that has not been mentioned yet. It’s botting. A lot of players do it for levelling and clan points farming. Botting speedruns the levelling phase making majority of low level items irrelevant. Players go to botters botting spots to level up since it’s convenient and this limits exploration. Botting encourages other players to bot aswell. Imagine botting and you get the bonus exp by over killing a mob, that would mean that they will speed run the game even more. Botting sucks basically. A possible solution is to make every life matter. Once you die you either started over again from last save point or lose a level each death. Currently, you only lose a bit experience from dying. I think it’s not punishing enough for afk botters.

So to sum up, exploration is fun, progress is fun, challenge is fun, new content is fun and botting sucks. The game is not dying. It’s still in early access.