THE AUCTION HOUSE (Yes Everyones favorite topic)

[Mewi]

1 hour ago, VenomX said:

What new players?  I appreciate the optimism, but you’re reacting as if we’re going to get this influx of new players coming in.  The people that wanted to play Rose is already playing rose.  
 

Vending items is a part of the game.  Just curious.  What are you trying to vend as a level 150 anyways?

Rednim anticipate an influx of players once they begin their marketing campaign - that's what they're hopeful for.
It would be nice to present the game to these players as something that has been loved for decades, and now has an element of refinement and polish. One of the many ways to contribute to this better image for Rose is to introduce the Auction House.
Competitive pricing, accessible across multiple planets (or just keep it in Junon, another point to discuss) which would also serve as a social hub
easier for players to search for and find the items they're shopping for, instead of unknowingly wandering through 100 stores and not finding a thing (or finding something at a ludicrous price).

Stop getting distracted. "You're not even endgame", "what are you trying to vend as a lvl 150".

The only valid thing you've said so far is "Vending is a beloved and staple feature of ROSE." of which I can agree with to some level. It was/is fun shopping around, but vending as it stands also has it's problems. The new update saving people's shops is nice, but a waste of time investment when you consider alternate options like an AH.

There's no good reason to be open to new ideas, especially ones that are born from quality of life improvement, and I think the AH would serve as a great improvement to the game for old and new players alike.

[Bluntastic]

2 hours ago, VenomX said:

Vending items is a part of the game.  Just curious.  What are you trying to vend as a level 150 anyways?

Pantharis King Medal and a low duarbility Risen Phoenix Wing if youre interested in buying them =).

[Heatfist]

I agree AH eases the market experience and simplifies buying and selling between players, but if such a system would be implemented removing vending completely would harm the game.

The way I would see it is to have an AH be implement in main city hub areas (Junon, Eucar, Xita, Mauris) as a literal house where players can walk into talk to an NPC to place an item within it for a starting bid price and pay a fee for how long the item would stay in there for. It would be treated like an actual auction house. Once a bid ends the money and item would be picked up from the AH through the NPC again. This would replace the need for a market system in Discord and Forums and allow players to put items up for literal auctions and have the ability to go back and check the bids and cancel or leave it up as they see fit. This would be a separate system of its own independent from the vending.

Vending should still be a thing. The ability to vend scrolls or potions on maps away from NPCs to players leveling and questing is a great feature in it self and should not be removed. Having all the little shop stalls makes players need to move around and not sit in one place listing through items. There would be no fun factor for some players to just gather at one NPC all day and scroll through items when the possibility to browse private shops is a thing. Players setting absurd prices on things as mentioned previously is the “charm” of the game market experience. 
Needing to run to an AH all the time to stock up for items because no vendors exist on local maps would become an annoyance for some. 

IMO not everything needs to be simplified and spoon fed to the player base. Hunt for the items, browse player shops. Communicate with the sellers for a better deal through whispers. These add to activity. AH feels too monotone. Makes players chickens in a coup waiting for deals to pop up without the need to move around. MMO’s are designed to waste time. Personally I prefer the vending systems and the shop searching when leveling or farming gets boring over the ease of use of a scrollable list of all available items.

If you want to completely replace vending with an AH market system, how would you want it implemented in this game exactly? I understand the Pros/Cons but I’d like to know the idea of how you’d have it work in this game. I’ve seen a similar system in a certain private server but that’s more of an ease to find shop than an AH. 

TLDR: I wouldn’t mind an AH as a separate market style beside vending for those who don’t like vending but removing and replacing vending completely I’m against.

 

 

[Bluntastic]

9 hours ago, Heatfist said:

The way I would see it is to have an AH be implement in main city hub areas (Junon, Eucar, Xita, Mauris) as a literal house where players can walk into talk to an NPC to place an item within it for a starting bid price and pay a fee for how long the item would stay in there for. It would be treated like an actual auction house. Once a bid ends the money and item would be picked up from the AH through the NPC again.

I state this in part of my PROs; implementation of an AH would mean implementation of it across all worlds. It can be a physical building you enter (like WoW) or it could be a slightly larger NPC that players can click on easier without worrying about mount stacking issues, or just a larger version of the current shop sprite. It brings up a dialog and you click "I want to auction an item". 
 

9 hours ago, Heatfist said:

The ability to vend scrolls or potions on maps away from NPCs to players leveling and questing is a great feature in it self and should not be removed.

This is mentioned in my Negative part of removing shops. This can be fixed by just adding more inventory slots for people to carry the ridiculous amount of items there are in the world. There is no downfall in providing players with more inventory space. This is not an ARPG and even WoW came up with larger bags when introducing newer zones. You cant have the same inventory space and introduce 100s of new items, including event items and item mall items. This also clears the annoyance you mentioned of having to run to the AH...except you have to run to shops and find the right deal? Annoyance is I cannot get straight back to the game after finding the item I need at that moment.

 

9 hours ago, Heatfist said:

IMO not everything needs to be simplified and spoon fed to the player base. Hunt for the items, browse player shops. Communicate with the sellers for a better deal through whispers. These add to activity. AH feels too monotone. Makes players chickens in a coup waiting for deals to pop up without the need to move around.

Spoon fed? Not sure how developing a more sophisticated system to reduce and track RMTs, give access to shopping across the universe and increasing game stability is spoon feeding players anything. You're providing us with a much better system for us to play the game with.

 

9 hours ago, Heatfist said:

If you want to completely replace vending with an AH market system, how would you want it implemented in this game exactly?

Copy Maplestory, apply and adapt it to ROSE online. I think we would only need 5-6 Column Titles. The AH will have a simplified picture of the item, you highlight over it just like any item, you see the stats. You can add filters so that players can search for specific item grades, duration left, if its a one hand sword/axe/mace, armor type, item mall type, etc... Maplestory also does taxation based on duration and possibly total cost. WoW has the player name attached to the item being sold so you can contact the seller and possibly get a better deal, or they are your clan mate, etc. 

Item | Item Type| Grade | Zulie Cost | Player Selling | Duration Left

Zant Scroll | Consumable | 0 | 250 | Bluntastic | 7h 04min

9 hours ago, Heatfist said:

TLDR: I wouldn’t mind an AH as a separate market style beside vending for those who don’t like vending but removing and replacing vending completely I’m against.

Having an Auction House is the same as having hundreds of shops in Junon; just better. 

Edited March 29, 2023 by Bluntastic

[Artsy1]

AH would make buying and selling more convenient.  Maybe too convenient.  Thus makes the game boring.  I like the vending system and I hope it doesn’t get replaced!

[Bluntastic]

1 hour ago, Artsy1 said:

AH would make buying and selling more convenient.  Maybe too convenient.  Thus makes the game boring.  I like the vending system and I hope it doesn’t get replaced!

Can you explain how selling your item would reduce the rest of the games enjoyment? Selling an item is 1 aspect of many other options to enjoy the game.

[Artsy1]

26 minutes ago, Bluntastic said:

Can you explain how selling your item would reduce the rest of the games enjoyment? Selling an item is 1 aspect of many other options to enjoy the game.

Because it would be too easy.  It’s so satisfying and rewarding to see that your shop has sold many of your items overnight!

[Bi0riflez]

On 3/27/2023 at 8:37 AM, Thystro said:

Okay bro, but what you suggest would bring in loads of people to make the game feel more alive? I think that's a whole other discussion. 

I think the 20 year old system works totally fine, Flyff and several older MMO's do the same and they seem to work just fine. It's not that people aren quitting due to the current vendor system. Like I said regarding the computer bill I always felt offline vending worked just fine on other servers, imo there is just no need for an auction house. in a MoSCoW list I would but it on a COULD have priority.

<removed>

There are/were FLYFF versions with an AH and it worked far better than the current system on flyff. It is riddled with problems that mostly affect new players.

Want to buy something for cheap? Too bad because the time invested in setting up shop is not worth charging cheap prices.
Want to find something fast before you go to a dungeon or party with friends? Too bad because you have to make it through the lag ridden town of Saint Morning to attempt to try to find something in the hundreds of stalls.
Want to sell something for cheap? Too bad because if you put stuff up for penya instead of perin you will get the penya in the mail for each transaction and your mail box will fill up and you will loose all the penya from your sales.

So you can't buy cheap things, sell cheap things, or find items fast in the current system. All of those were eliminated when past iterations of Flyff implemented an auction house.

There are really only 2 benefits to not having an auction house and here they are:
1) A single rich player cannot monopolize an item and artificially increase the price. 
2) You can more easily accrue zulie by buying cheap and selling high.

Neither of these benefits outweigh the numerous downsides of not having an auction house and benefit number 2 discourages new players when someone buys an item for 1% of its value and then sells it for 1000% of its value. If you were to put caps and minimums on buying and selling prices [which I am sure they would not do] there would only be 1 benefit to the vending system: lack of monopoly.

There is no good reason not to implement an auction house. Just because an auction house is implemented does not mean you can't set up shop and try to sell stuff on the cheap or sell vital items like boxes of bullets/arrows, health potions, etc. in areas outside of town. It would not take away from those players who still wish to vend.

 

On 3/27/2023 at 9:01 AM, VenomX said:

I mean, an auction house would be convenient for new players, but it’s not like new players are coming in to play anyway.  So I’d rather the devs focus on other aspects of the game.  
 

 

I am a very [probably too much so] active new player. I have only been playing for a month. I have met many new players as well along my way and tried to help them progress in the game and stay on the server. The number one complaint from every new player I meet is the economy.

By the time a new player saves up for an item it has doubled in price.
By the time a player finds someone buying an item for a legitimate price [lets say 50% of its value] they have already sold a majority of that item to players offering 10% or less of the value for the item. Or worse yet, they started dropping the items because they thought they were "worthless" compared to the exorbitant price of goods on the server. Imagine seeing someone in Zant buying bird feathers for 300 so you start tossing them for more "valuable" materials only to find out they are worth 20k zulie each when you make it to Junon.

If you aren't a new player or have not interacted with new players these problems might not be plaguing you. You probably already know the common price of most items you find and aren't getting ripped off constantly along the way; but, to new players this is a major hurtle that does cause many of them to quit. If there were set prices [which is unreasonable to those trying to make a profit] or a place where you could see the average cost of goods [like an auction house] it would encourage the few players that do decide to peek their head into the server to stay instead of moving on to another game.

 

7 hours ago, Artsy1 said:

Because it would be too easy.  It’s so satisfying and rewarding to see that your shop has sold many of your items overnight!

I agree with this as well; but, I don't think it would be diminished by the AH. You could see your items selling in it just as clearly as you would with your shop. Maybe your shop could even just automatically be linked to the auction house upon implementation. That would be something really cool that I think would make both sides happy.

It is truly nice to see your shop "selling out" as it were.

[Bluntastic]

On 3/29/2023 at 11:43 AM, Artsy1 said:

Because it would be too easy.  It’s so satisfying and rewarding to see that your shop has sold many of your items overnight!

There will be a section that shows sold items and received amount for sold item, within the Auction House. Allowing the player to "receive" the funds upon checking the "Sold" section. 

 

The Auction House will be just like Vending in ROSE currently, just better, updated and makes the game feel like its not going to be 20 years old forever. 

Edited April 2, 2023 by Bluntastic

[GodOfEntity]

3 hours ago, Bluntastic said:

The Auction House will be just like Vending in ROSE currently, just better, updated and makes the game feel like its not going to be 20 years old forever. 

The current shop system is sort of like, what makes the game what it is. Is it kind of annoying? Yeah. it is. But honestly its the little annoyances that makes this game the amazing game that it is. I hate having to go searching for stuff in shops. But the mechanic is just... well.. it's awesome
It's awesome because, location, location, location. That sort of thing matters. Which is great

[Mewi]

36 minutes ago, GodOfEntity said:

The current shop system is sort of like, what makes the game what it is. Is it kind of annoying? Yeah. it is. But honestly its the little annoyances that makes this game the amazing game that it is. I hate having to go searching for stuff in shops. But the mechanic is just... well.. it's awesome
It's awesome because, location, location, location. That sort of thing matters. Which is great

There's no denying the negative/detrimental effect this can have though.
Some players for example will port into a city or town, see a "CHEAP X" shop and buy what they want/need, only to find another shop 5 mins later that's cheaper, sometimes considerably so.

It would help standardise a lot of prices for things that are in high demand for both buy/sell and stop a lot of the gouging that occurs on a shop by shop basis.

I don't think ROSE's identity depends entirely on the shop system as it is. 

[GodOfEntity]

35 minutes ago, Mewi said:

There's no denying the negative/detrimental effect this can have though.
Some players for example will port into a city or town, see a "CHEAP X" shop and buy what they want/need, only to find another shop 5 mins later that's cheaper, sometimes considerably so.

It would help standardise a lot of prices for things that are in high demand for both buy/sell and stop a lot of the gouging that occurs on a shop by shop basis.

I don't think ROSE's identity depends entirely on the shop system as it is. 

One of the reasons I came back is because Rednim position on this 



They do have a deeper explanation as to why (not sure where)  - But their stance on auction house is something I am very happy with. 

 

Edited April 3, 2023 by GodOfEntity

[Mewi]

3 hours ago, GodOfEntity said:

One of the reasons I came back is because Rednim position on this 



They do have a deeper explanation as to why (not sure where)  - But their stance on auction house is something I am very happy with. 

 

I do agree it plays a part in SOME of the identity of the game, but refusing to revise an existing system that is fundamentally superseded by newer ideas and thoughts just seems to be a little naive.. 

What if the Auction houses were planet-dependant?
I get this could be immediately seen as counter intuitive, but i think at the core of the argument, we're wanting to maintain the reason that people primarily gravitate toward a single point, to create a sense of community. That's what we should be aiming to preserve.
For example... a lot of players would still resort to going to Junon to participate in what would be the most widely-accessible AH? 

[GodOfEntity]

1 hour ago, Mewi said:

I do agree it plays a part in SOME of the identity of the game, but refusing to revise an existing system that is fundamentally superseded by newer ideas and thoughts just seems to be a little naive.. 

What if the Auction houses were planet-dependant?
I get this could be immediately seen as counter intuitive, but i think at the core of the argument, we're wanting to maintain the reason that people primarily gravitate toward a single point, to create a sense of community. That's what we should be aiming to preserve.
For example... a lot of players would still resort to going to Junon to participate in what would be the most widely-accessible AH? 

Location, location, location. 

I like that you notice that location matters. Just realize that location in Junon in of itself ALSO matters. That is what makes vending in this game so freaking amazing and beautiful -- 

When you say, oh, a person here sells for this, but then you go over there, it sells for different. -- This applies for EVERYWHERE in the game. Even refine matts. - Want to sell refine materials at the max price? Sell near Crune. -- Want to sell Carts on the cheap? Do so near Mildun. 

Want to sell Gems? Near Mildun (why idk) Want to sell exaulted? Near bridge near Mildun. -- Want to pay less for dirtys? Buy them in Zant. 
Red pots? Near valor / Honor shop for people running DG's/Aram. 


The shop system of this game is an integral part of the game. -
As you recognize. Location is a major part of buy/sell in this game. Being aware of that is what makes some vendors better vendors than others. 

Auction house, destroys that logistic of the game entirely. 

[cn]

Felt that this deserved its own topic.  Ideas came about based on conversation on discord (thanks to those that were participating in that convo). 

3 stage approach

1. Auction House (like ebay) - only offline vend.  charge 5% fee on buyer and/or seller (provides zulie sink in order to gain global audience/listings).  
2. Local classifieds (like FB marketplace/Craigslist) - no offline vend.  Charge a small fee (1%?) to list on the local classifieds.  Local could mean only the map you are on, the planet, or just the shops that are rendered in your vicinity.  Have a searchable page or window to list the local items, but no option to buy.  Instead, will have the map/shop name/coordinates.
3. Traditional shop - retains the current vending structure.  default all vending to traditional shop, players must opt to list an item on local classifieds or post to auction house.  

Everybody gets something they want.  Ability to offline vend (but at a cost), still have traditional shops, but also add local classifieds to make vending/shopping easier. 

 

[Bluntastic]

Check threads before posting already  suggested things. For instance, mine (and many AH) threads. Add to them before creating a new thread.

Edited April 6, 2023 by Bluntastic

[Bluntastic]

On 4/3/2023 at 2:54 AM, GodOfEntity said:

When you say, oh, a person here sells for this, but then you go over there, it sells for different. -- This applies for EVERYWHERE in the game. Even refine matts. - Want to sell refine materials at the max price? Sell near Crune. -- Want to sell Carts on the cheap? Do so near Mildun. 

Want to sell Gems? Near Mildun (why idk) Want to sell exaulted? Near bridge near Mildun. -- Want to pay less for dirtys? Buy them in Zant. 
Red pots? Near valor / Honor shop for people running DG's/Aram. 

This could be still an activity by creating some sort of vending/auction system at each vendor. Mildun, auction your carts, Crune, auction your Weapons. Saki, Armor...etc. 

 

This will relieve a few players negativity towards one singular spot for an AH.

So far, if its possible, creating a system that when you Vend (regardless of location) it goes to an accessible system from either town or the localized shop. Making it so players can either buy items from a local shop or go to the auction. This would pretty much solve all issues besides relieving the town of AFK shops. To some that makes the game feel alive, to me it makes the game feel dead. To force hundreds of accounts to stay online to vend is just a small flex to keep investors happy, imo. Losing a few hundred open accounts would make investors worry theyre losing the player base.

 

Remember, rednim is a business. The goal of any business is profits of some sort.

Edited April 6, 2023 by Bluntastic

[Bluntastic]

On 4/2/2023 at 9:13 PM, GodOfEntity said:

One of the reasons I came back is because Rednim position on this 

Do you also approve of the "no wipe" mentality after Alpha?

 

The whole community is crying wolf on RMTs and zulie stabilization and the only way to fix it is sit down, create a market that stabilizes itself or reset the whole game and introduce lower drop rates for things such as Liscent. Make end game harder to reach. 5 months in and we are already discussing about trillions of zulie in circulation. 

This isnt WoW either. The future expectations for expansions or more planets to finish the ROSE Universal storyline is slim to none. 20 years in and 4/7 planets are devloped. The other 3 need to be created from scratch still...

Edited April 6, 2023 by Bluntastic

[GodOfEntity]

9 minutes ago, Bluntastic said:

20 years in and 4/7 planets are devloped. The other 3 need to be created from scratch still...

Man have you even seen what Rednim team did in Unreal Engine before getting obtaining the rights to develop on the original code?  

Yeah, I am extremely sure that they'll finish the planets. 
 

[Garnet]

No, the team currently doesn't want an Auction System for now because we think it would make the game lose his identity, most players that we have talk with like the way to have lot of shops in Junon and look at them.

Unless there is a major change in the game that make us reconsider it where AH would be highly beneficial for game, we prefer to implement better vending features.