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Not changing clerics and releasing the game sooner


SadSpecter
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I dont believe that clerics need changed nothing was wrong with them thats the point in that character to help people and thats all. I get trying to make them less of that but that was and is the whole point in them...every game does it that way for a cleric they heal or buff and if you dont wanna do that then you be the mage version thats kinda why the classes have two different play types to be balanced and if you change that too much it breaks the game rendering it useless. taking away the offensive buffs will make them kinda pointless cause they dont kill either also if you make them do damage then why play the mage side of it at all. But either way i dont believe it should take over a year to start something like this i mean look at rose code zero they had theres up in a short timeframe and ik size of the dev team may be small but if thats the case maybe bring more people on to the team so that people can help accomplish things faster and help get people back to playing the game we all actually enjoyed years ago... I understand things take time and having a different outlook on the game but alot of the people here miss the original no one wanted anything but the original it was actually fun but changes to classes that make them do what a class we already have does is pointless i suggest adding new content and sure modify the content that is there but the classes dont have any issues with them.. I am super happy you all have decided to bring this game back i would love to be apart of the team working on this honestly. i dont think some of these changes that are planned are the best for the game..

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im sorry Specter but i have to disagree here.

it sounds like you just want the game to be playable ASAP but im not sure if that is the best decision for the game. of course the wait is killing but its SOOO gonna be worth it in the end 🙂 just give it some time.

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I understand your concerns, but some changes are needed to make this game great again. I played a lot of other mmo's and there is not a single one where i need a cleric to be able to play the game. So removing the buffs is all for the better. Because of the level shrink, you will become stronger faster. You will get more stat and skill points per level. Of course we have to play with this and make adjustments.

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This whole rant sounds like a child who doesn’t want to eat his brocolis.

I don’t even know if it’s worth answering or debating about so I’ll just remind you the  definition of insanity insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.

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It's also worth mentioning it's not just cleric changes that are happening. Alot of work is going on with the code base to make the whole engine easier to develop moving forward. It will be worth the wait in the long run.

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58 minutes ago, Flowan said:

I played a lot of other mmo's and there is not a single one where i need a cleric to be able to play the game.

👍 Cleric addiction brings us back to iRose times. As fun as it was, it's past, nobody can revive it. So go on with changes. Even if it takes alot of time. 100% support!

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I agree with not changing the cleric class. It was one of the most fun parts of the game, leveling up a cleric and getting your T4 set and T7 set afterwards. It also provided some nice effects since the regular combat skills of classes are not very flashy. 

I would agree with nerving offensive buffs and let unbuffed chars be a lot stronger.

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I understand TS's POV. People keep coming back to old game for the nostalgia and get disappointed to see change. 

But we'll just have to see what kind of new Rose they will bring, on one side it's saddening that it's not gonna be as nostalgic (I love buffing people and seeing happy newbies going back grinding with their buffs!), but the good news is: this is a start of a new adventure!

Edited by Kai
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the cleric is not needed to play the game just makes the game easier. its also set for people that like to play the support role and not really have to fight as much. Also i dont want the game released too early. i understand it taking time like i said but the changes i have read that you all are planning on making are not the best changes. i do get tweaks should be made but the cleric role is a support role not a fighter. in no mmo is a cleric needed they just give you a small way or sometimes a big way to boost your character to be better and also keep you alive when you are fighting bosses and stuff like that. i just dont see it being the right move i was around in a private server that decided to make some of the changes you all are talking about making and they no longer exist so im just trying to help with suggestions from what ive personally seen. i liked rose and it was great ill play it either way but classes to me arent what you should focus on changing because people like them the way they are the big thing is content needed like quests and stuff added like that and later game content so the game doesnt become stale. classes were never the issue in the game, cheaters were the big killer to the game sadly and i know cause i was there when it all happened.

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also have to be careful because if you change too much in the game then some people may not wanna play or come back because its not what they wanted or hoped for because they wanted the original or at least close to.

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On 1/19/2022 at 9:03 AM, Shid0x said:

This whole rant sounds like a child who doesn’t want to eat his brocolis.

I don’t even know if it’s worth answering or debating about so I’ll just remind you the  definition of insanity insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.

also its not doing the same thing over and over, yes changes need made but not really to the classes we have..add new ones or new job types to the game all im saying is dont break what isnt broken. You could just add like a third option to all the classes but why mess with something that has nothing wrong with it? But you my friend sound like the child..

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On 1/19/2022 at 3:56 PM, Kid said:

I agree with releasing the game earlier and just making changes as we go

Username checks out...

If there would be constant gameplay changes in a game that's out of its testing phase, then people will never commit to anything because everything is prone for major changes.

Edited by Gnasty
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This topic requires so much more than simple anecdotes and short replies. There's more than 2 sides of the discussion, lots of middle ground, and even more uncertainty due to the simple fact, we don't have our hands on it.
Can I see a ROSE where Clerics don't give offensive buffs, and are still a vital supportive class in the game? Obviously yes. Do I have a personal bias? Sure, I think buffs are in a borish state that require little upkeep and are uninspiring flat stat gains. BUT, people like getting stronger. >>I<< like getting stronger. 

I'll stop before I get too into the thick of the weeds here but, suffice to say; patience and communication will win the day. Keep calm, level headed and represent yourself well. Explain your position and experience once we've seen or had some hands on with the changes. 

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 1/19/2022 at 5:54 AM, Flowan said:

I understand your concerns, but some changes are needed to make this game great again. I played a lot of other mmo's and there is not a single one where i need a cleric to be able to play the game. So removing the buffs is all for the better. Because of the level shrink, you will become stronger faster. You will get more stat and skill points per level. Of course we have to play with this and make adjustments.

So why does the "level" shrink not remove the "need" for buffs?

Removing the buffs sounds an awful lot like we have to completely revamp a class when I think the level squish removes the need for buffs while still allowing them?

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On 1/23/2022 at 2:20 PM, OwlchemistVile said:

This topic requires so much more than simple anecdotes and short replies. There's more than 2 sides of the discussion, lots of middle ground, and even more uncertainty due to the simple fact, we don't have our hands on it.
Can I see a ROSE where Clerics don't give offensive buffs, and are still a vital supportive class in the game? Obviously yes. Do I have a personal bias? Sure, I think buffs are in a borish state that require little upkeep and are uninspiring flat stat gains. BUT, people like getting stronger. >>I<< like getting stronger. 

I'll stop before I get too into the thick of the weeds here but, suffice to say; patience and communication will win the day. Keep calm, level headed and represent yourself well. Explain your position and experience once we've seen or had some hands on with the changes. 

I haven't played alpha so I've held my tongue beyond some discord rants......
I agree this deserves a full serious discussion.

An obvious middle ground that requires again an overhaul code wise would be buffs are applied on heal/attack. (defensive/offensive) 
Forcing more active gameplay to aquire said buffs.......

Lot of work though.....

If we strip a class completely I hope we have an answer to what it is going to do now...... 

And no "healing" doesn't replace more than half their skill tree..... unless you really ramp up some interesting new things in healing.
AKA more complete code overhaul of a class....

Edited by MittelDank
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honestly id rather see the cleric changed into something sorta like a bard. could still have slight buffs but have it so the song of the bard only effects the bard and party members within range of them. no buff duration your in range or your not.

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On 1/19/2022 at 6:46 AM, SadSpecter said:

I dont believe that clerics need changed nothing was wrong with them thats the point in that character to help people and thats all. I get trying to make them less of that but that was and is the whole point in them...every game does it that way for a cleric they heal or buff and if you dont wanna do that then you be the mage version thats kinda why the classes have two different play types to be balanced and if you change that too much it breaks the game rendering it useless. taking away the offensive buffs will make them kinda pointless cause they dont kill either also if you make them do damage then why play the mage side of it at all. But either way i dont believe it should take over a year to start something like this i mean look at rose code zero they had theres up in a short timeframe and ik size of the dev team may be small but if thats the case maybe bring more people on to the team so that people can help accomplish things faster and help get people back to playing the game we all actually enjoyed years ago... I understand things take time and having a different outlook on the game but alot of the people here miss the original no one wanted anything but the original it was actually fun but changes to classes that make them do what a class we already have does is pointless i suggest adding new content and sure modify the content that is there but the classes dont have any issues with them.. I am super happy you all have decided to bring this game back i would love to be apart of the team working on this honestly. i dont think some of these changes that are planned are the best for the game..

Let's not talk about other active private servers.

Clerics are still able to heal players, including reviving other player(s)
It was recently confirmed by LP that Cleric will get the Enhance Damage, MP up, and Magic-Defense buffs returned to its kit, this way full buffs are completed from each individual class.

Here is a short clip of Clerics damage as it stands right now, when you are solo-leveling without any buffs; https://clips.twitch.tv/PricklyTiredPterodactylBuddhaBar-MTPyURJS_q269Goo

However, with that being said the "support" build on cleric does need a little bit more attention, as you are no longer able to buff your summons, and solely rely on your character stats to scale with the summon. It does lack a bit of damage to kill efficiently on its own, but over time with adjustments to its summons it shouldn't have too much of an issue, eventually as you get into the higher levels (70ish or so) you will be able to pick up some offensive skill(s) and passive(s) to help out your own damage.

I know it's a touchy subject, but please do not be too afraid of change, and keep a keen eye open to changes because they're not always a bad thing.
Also, it's not hard to get an IROSE server going given how much free-sourced dev work is out there to use that has accumulated over the years.

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3 hours ago, Snuwfer said:

Also, it's not hard to get an IROSE server going given how much free-sourced dev work is out there to use that has accumulated over the years.

Just wanna quickly go over this part here, do you think this will be a good idea? it will actively split up a community, even tough i would love to go back to IROSE, because thats where i knew what was going on.. i dont think having 2 versions of the game is the right decission. or did you mean something else by this?

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3 hours ago, Winniethenoob said:

Just wanna quickly go over this part here, do you think this will be a good idea? it will actively split up a community, even tough i would love to go back to IROSE, because thats where i knew what was going on.. i dont think having 2 versions of the game is the right decission. or did you mean something else by this?

No, it was a remark to the comment that OP made about a certain server being able to open so quickly.
I don't wish to see that anywhere for Rednim Games ROSE Online

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