Fix 'buff slaves' once and for all!

[fercho70]

buff slaves were never a problem if you play rose from 2010 to 2017 when it shut down you'll know this buffers where only used for wars every pvp clan had buffers this made wars more fun,faster paced more enjoyable gameplay which is what rose is about the fast combat system. cleric buff were super strong in evo the only reason why we used buffers for wars was due to each class unique buff being stronger than the clerics version or simply due to the class having unique buff that clerics didn't have but cleric buff were still pretty strong and cleric had a bunch of unique buffs so cleric was always needed in every party/war. again this never affected pvp cause people that had buffers would buff everyone and anyone that ask for buff, whenever players were about to 1v1 the person would the buffers would buff both players. again this was an integral part of the pvp experience it made the game play fast paced unlike irose where the gameplay is pretty slow and kinda wacky. i don't mind with the devs making int the go to stat and making charm the drop stat considering we need a drop stat in game. but i believe clerics should be left as they were instead of removing their buffs make the solo experience more engaging, on evo we already have buff potions which are super cheap and accessible so players can solo just pop some buff potions and your good to go. cleric is a pretty integral part of rose gameplay and again we have the option of using buff potions or now we the team focusing on the solo experience you can quest by yourself all the way to 250,again the buff system is an integral part to the game play that made many rose fans fall in love with this game and removing that would be pretty harmful to that core fanbase this game has buffers were never an issue for pvp it made the game fun same with cleric buff it made dg and pvp games faster and more enjoyable .

[TheShredr]

10 minutes ago, fercho70 said:

buff slaves were never a problem if you play rose from 2010 to 2017 when it shut down you'll know this buffers where only used for wars every pvp clan had buffers this made wars more fun,faster paced more enjoyable gameplay which is what rose is about the fast combat system. cleric buff were super strong in evo the only reason why we used buffers for wars was due to each class unique buff being stronger than the clerics version or simply due to the class having unique buff that clerics didn't have but cleric buff were still pretty strong and cleric had a bunch of unique buffs so cleric was always needed in every party/war.

You are exactly describing the problem I am stating in the suggestion. It is not about the removal of the buffs from cleric tho, it is about the need of buff slaves (afk buff bots) of all classes. 

[fercho70]

44 minutes ago, TheShredr said:

You are exactly describing the problem I am stating in the suggestion. It is not about the removal of the buffs from cleric tho, it is about the need of buff slaves (afk buff bots) of all classes. 

i'm not. they are not needed people just made them cause it made pvp more enjoyable faster,faster combat,attack speed,fast casting this is what makes the evo system evo. you don't need them you can keep going by your day with ur cleric buffs doing your dg or your farming or pvp game. again this is only used for pvp wars by competitive clans if ur not part of that scene buffers won't affect ur gameplay whatsoever u dont need them to do dg nor farm nor level. again they should've let cleric keeps it's buff considering cleric buff was super useful for party and dg now dg are going to be super slow and if ur not lucky enough to get a soldier and hawker in ur party ur doomed. before from 230 to 250 you could've level up in ulverick dg with the buffs being gone this would be close to impossible unless you have a soldier and a hawker in ur party and on tp of that a cleric so i would say this change would do more harm than good when it comes to dg and stuff like cause now you'll be needing 3 chars to be able to clear dg faster or to even clear at all at this point rip.there's other ways the team could go about this but well see as of now im type down about the whole thing 

[TheShredr]

6 hours ago, fercho70 said:

again this is only used for pvp wars by competitive clans if ur not part of that scene buffers won't affect ur gameplay whatsoever

Sir, not needing them doesn't mean people will not level them and use them. Do you know the phenomenon 'min/maxing', people will go for the best option regardless if you need them or not, especially in PvP.

6 hours ago, fercho70 said:

i'm not.

The problem I try to describe is the existence of buff slaves AKA AFK buff bots, cleric or the other classes. You are describing those, even tho you are saying you don't need them. They exist in this setup. Reverting cleric buffs makes the cleric the buff bot.

[Bobbity]

Off-topic: @fercho70Please, my dude. Please use punctuation. Just as a favour to me. You made my headache worse, somehow. The forum needs you to be clear so we can read and respond to your meaningful feedback.

 

On-topic: The suggestion does remove useless buff slaves and I support it. Players will still make alt characters of different classes on their other account due to habit and use them initially as buff slaves. However, these slave characters will not suffer any handicap in terms of becoming a normal character of its class. We will EVENTUALLY have real players that spend time, effort and zulie to build up their main characters. These characters are, solely by virtue of having maxed their main class stat, able to offer strong buffs. They won't differ dramatically from other player characters that use a more varied stat mix. What are the knock-on consequences of that, though? 

 

(This raises a follow-up question in my mind: given a scenario based on the OP's suggestion but where full buffs are offered as IM skills for ALL CLASSES to learn, 

a) would people still try to make a cleric buffer by habit?

b) would it be p2w?

Logically, if there is no single 'buffer' class/class that exists only to buff and class buffs are always better than buff pots, there wouldn't as a matter of course be a cleric that pays money just to be a pure buffer... would there? After all, there's opportunity cost for those scarce skill points, IM costs real money and we only have 2 game client windows available. No-one would turn themselves into a buffslave on purpose if their buffs would be weaker than a full party. Or am I wrong?)

[TheShredr]

The underlying problem IMO is that we are all buff addicted. Next to that alot of us have a very nice experience having a max full support buffing cleric. To let that all go in an instant is very hard and a big part of the nostalgia feeling. I understand this.

Personally I never liked the 'need' of a cleric buffer, and this felt forced.

28 minutes ago, Bobbity said:

These characters are, solely by virtue of having maxed their main class stat, able to offer strong buffs. They won't differ dramatically from other player characters that use a more varied stat mix. What are the knock-on consequences of that, though? 

My solution to this would be as I described to remove the CHARM effect to make the buffs stronger. Next to that, I would leave the 'making stronger' effect of the main stat as it is. This will result in weaker buffs in general, but leaves the buffs to the specific classes. This way the class specific roles get more visible, the buffs make those differences in uniqueness less visible IMO.

Personally I don't like the IM availability of buffs.

[Bobbity]

lol the question was if ppl would still make a cleric for buffs even though being a cleric doesn't make buffs better. Do they see clerics as the slave characters, in other words.

I'm assuming that, since the buffs would be of the exact same strength as any given character class and they offer negligible in-game benefit, it wouldn't be considered p2w either. AFAIK the optimum would be to party with other classes instead of relying on your spare/alt account character for buffs. You'd still get people being antisocial, relying on their IM buffslave.

 

Anyway, back to the topic. Like I said, buff slaves will be made and used BUT each buff slave will be exactly as worthy as any other character. There won't be a significant difference in skill build between these characters and anyone else's mains. They're as likely to be used for combat as anyone else's char. So, it doesn't so much fix buff slavery as it makes every character equal.

You know what would fix buff slavery for real?

a) If buffs were granted by the Goddess Herself directly through prayer. 

b) If there were no buffs.

c)if buffs were replaced by auras.

d) Something I haven't thought of.

 

EDIT: OFF-TOPIC (AGAIN): The devs have thus far planned to release with the current framework of class buffs. Players right now don't see clerics as of any use except for buffs. If they can't buff, their party slot should be taken by another damage dealer instead (likely spear champ or mage). This sentiment implies that the current cleric skillset is uninspiring and needs looking at. I've seen similar sentiments expressed directly or indirectly about artisanal goods. I STRONGLY RECOMMEND THE TEAM TAKES ANOTHER LOOK AT SUPPORT CLASS SKILLSETS AND IMPLEMENTS CHANGES FOR POST-EARLY ACCESS RELEASE.

Edited December 2, 2022 by Bobbity
Thinking like a duck

[Vile]

Well ,as per Shredr's request I've read the topic and, I'm going to try to keep this brief but containing all necessary information so bare with me.

First off, CHA and Buffs.

• CHA [charm]* affects the following stats:
• Heal potency / strength
• Damage over Time & Healing over Time potency /strength
• Critical Defense rating
• Buff & Debuff potency / strength
• Sometimes increases quest rewards with more zulie, experience or items.

Important notes on Buffs:

1: Buffs scale on CHA primarily, and Class Main stat Secondarily « STR increases Soldier buffs for example ».
2: Buffs automatically adjust on yourself, if you were the one to cast the buff. This does NOT automatically scale on allies you buffed.
3: Buffs were on all classes for a VERY long time. The buffs were NOT removed from Cleric and "given" to the other classes, they already had them.
4: "Class" buffs « STR, Attack Power, Def, HP for Soldiers as an example» scale faster / are more potent than Cleric buffs. They have been, for a long time in NA.
5: Buffs aren't "necessarily" included in the Passive Procs buffing system. Some buffs are in the system "temporary passives" that can stack with standard buffs.

The positions / POV's being expressed here [and in some other threads] seem to be:

•  Clerics should be the only class with buffs, because they're useless with everything else
•  Clerics should be the only class with buffs, because it's their "identity"
•  Clerics should be the only class with buffs, because that's how it's always been
•  Clerics should be the strongest buffer because it's their job
•  CHA shouldn't be the buffing stat
•  Clerics are Dead on Arrival if they don't have all the best buffs, and all buffs.
•  Clerics won't get parties cause no one wants to lose EXP to a bad buffer, and heals aren't worth it
•  I won't play ROSE if I don't get my way, and my way is Clerics are the only, and best buffing class

So let's go in order

- Clerics should be the only class with buffs, because they're useless with everything else.
Patently wrong. Clerics being the only dedicated Healing class in the game are required for end-game NA content, even more-so with the removal of Runes and other passives / effects they brought with them. Beyond that, they're strong map presence in PvP and are very much more than capable of being a threat in terms of damage. This isn't iRose, Clerics aren't just a buff turret in the NA Client.

- Clerics should be the only class with buffs, because it's their "identity".
That's a subjective take. I and many others, see Clerics as a support, healer, and active member of the party. If your idea of the perfect Cleric is you alt-tab to it once every 15 minutes for a buff then go back to youtube, then my opinion is that's a pretty pathetic identity that needs to be improved upon.

- Clerics should be the only class with buffs, because that's how it's always been.
Appeal to history. One of my most hated fallacious arguments.

- Clerics should be the stronger buffer because it's their job
Times change, in fact in NA that change happened years ago. And Clerics adapted. They became more versatile, nimble, active, and engaged. They couldn't crutch their buffs for a party spot in dungeons, they had to have good healing, and stay with the group. react to debuffs and stuns, and more. Clerics have a loose role, "support the party" how they chose to do it doesn't necessarily necessitate buffing. They can support it with healing, damage, mitigation, control and more.

- CHA shouldn't be the buffing stat.
The make it SEN. If you make it INT, then you've only resolved a perceived problem for Clerics, and made it so you would need INT Soldiers, INT Hawkers and INT Dealers for buff builds. And that would categorical be worse than CHA, since CHA bring heals, debuffs, crit defense and more.

- Clerics are Dead on Arrival if they don't have all the best buffs, and all buffs.
They'll be fine. Doom posting just makes the poster look desperate and incapable of presenting a fact-based point of view. If you have specific concerns that you think will result in the drop of Cleric players, make them clearly heard. [Also, there is nothing wrong with a dead class, Axe  Champion, XBow Scouts, Dual Raiders to a degree, and Battle Artisans were all considered "dead jobs" with only a few dedicated players continuing to use them. And no one cared or defended them. Why should this time be any different if, and thats a BIG IF, that's true. [this is a point to raise debate, I personally want every class to be viable/fun]

- Clerics won't get parties cause no one wants to lose EXP to a bad buffer, and heals aren't worth it
That's not a thing in NA. There is never a net loss by inviting another player to your leveling party outside of them actually doing nothing. And if you don't kick someone leeching from your group, that's on you.

-  I won't play ROSE if I don't get my way, and my way is Clerics are the only, and best buffing class
I'm not going to dignify this with an answer beyond grow up.

 

 

So, what do I think the solution or possible solution[s] are to this whole problem?

Well, I'm going to point to the core problem. Scaling Buffs. That's the root cause of this whole debate. So we need to figure out, is this worth it anymore.
Me personally? I think ROSE can exist without scaling buffs but keeping the strong buff meta. But let's address what's currently being discussed, cause my opinions don't really matter that much.

Dual clienting - the limiting factor?
No. Dual Clienting won't prevent a buff slave meta. People will simply log between the 3 buff slave characters [Soldier, Hawker and Dealer] and then Cleric to buff their main from 1 account, and their main on the other. You do however make it a LOT more inconvenient, which is a deterrent and deterrents when applied accurately to the right points, works.

When to buff slave buff, and when to not
If you're leveling out in Sikuku Ruins, or some other big map [pvp or not] then switching between 4 characters to buff your party [you can buff non-party members in AoE by using the Game Arena group system] that's a nightmare. Imaging running through the entire map 4 times every quarter to half hour. Just stick to the Cleric and relax.
If you're set up afking in TG, go ahead, you can log in/out at the safe spot on buff slaves. But this is content with no reward, do we REALLY need to police how people and players have fun? I don't think so, but that's me.

Dungeons?
Yeah, Buff slaving in Dungeons isn't possible, unless you're on a solo build [which haven't proven will remain possible with this new version] AND you can't manually qeue a party without all slots filled, without using group finder, and that's random, no guarantee you'll get your mains group. Just stick to your main and 1 buffer or a Cleric. [recommended Cleric].

Buff Slaves are useless for anything else:
Far far far from. A full investment CHA spear champion can be an absolute menace with debuffs and DoT's / status.
A max CHA investment Katar can burn down enemies requiring little to no accuracy, and a CHA duel raider can absolutely wreak havoc on a focused target.
Max CHA Artisan? Insane poison and debuff potential while retaining massive accuracy. Same for Bourgeois but replace poison with Burn.
Buff slaves when built and skilled / geared correctly, can absolutely retain combat value and remain viable [just won't be THE strongest]

So, my proposed solution, and I've made this solution before but this time I'll thoroughly outline why.

Buff Auras.
1: Requires you to be within proximity of the Buffer.
2: Can retain the dynamic scaling the buff system has, AND apply it dynamically to your party. This fixes the issues currently where only the buffers received buffs are scaled down after taking off CHA gear.
3: Prevents re-log buff scumming.
4: Prevents buff slaves in PvP and other dangerous fields as they'll need to be in combat capable gear / stat distributions, but if that's true, their given Aura will dynamically adjust down, and thus their party gets weaker buffs.
5: This could, COULD, make it so Clerics will be the safest Aura Buff unit in the combat field, and retaining high CHA on a Cleric results in high critical defense, and stronger Heals, Buffs and Debuffs. Meanwhile safer maps, like low level grinding maps could host high level buffers to help low level characters safely level with strong auras. [You will still need several players to have their own alt to fill the whole GA group but that's a logistics problem, not a design problem].

Problems I see:
You would have effectively removed buff dispelling from the game, outside of silencing the buffer to prevent the Aura from being deployed, Thus making silences EXTREMELY strong. Is buff dispelling an acceptable loss? Some will absolutely say yes, or no, that's for the community to decide. I personally don't care as the tactic would go from dispelling buffs, to focusing the Aura giver.

 

That's my proposed solution that fixes most holes, while keeping the new direction the DEV's have in mind, AND not outmoding Clerics buffing role.

And for those who think this doesn't impact me, my main this time is going to be a Cleric. So I will have to directly deal with this situation.So I have an invested interest in making this work smoothly.

[TheShredr]

4 hours ago, OwlchemistVile said:

- CHA shouldn't be the buffing stat.
The make it SEN. If you make it INT, then you've only resolved a perceived problem for Clerics, and made it so you would need INT Soldiers, INT Hawkers and INT Dealers for buff builds. And that would categorical be worse than CHA, since CHA bring heals, debuffs, crit defense and more.

Only note is that my suggestion isn't to make it INT or SEN for everyone. It is to remove the buff power enhancement from CHA, so the buffs are only affected by the characters main stat. Maybe I don't understand the scaling part well enough and the other effects CHA also has to make this a good option.

For the rest I love your reply, not so sure how I think about buff arua's, but I might be able to get used to that if that would be the best solution.

[LordAlbion]

"Fix Buff Slave"

Nothing to fix, it's fine.

[fercho70]

18 hours ago, Bobbity said:

Off-topic: @fercho70Please, my dude. Please use punctuation. Just as a favour to me. You made my headache worse, somehow. The forum needs you to be clear so we can read and respond to your meaningful feedback.

 

On-topic: The suggestion does remove useless buff slaves and I support it. Players will still make alt characters of different classes on their other account due to habit and use them initially as buff slaves. However, these slave characters will not suffer any handicap in terms of becoming a normal character of its class. We will EVENTUALLY have real players that spend time, effort and zulie to build up their main characters. These characters are, solely by virtue of having maxed their main class stat, able to offer strong buffs. They won't differ dramatically from other player characters that use a more varied stat mix. What are the knock-on consequences of that, though? 

 

(This raises a follow-up question in my mind: given a scenario based on the OP's suggestion but where full buffs are offered as IM skills for ALL CLASSES to learn, 

a) would people still try to make a cleric buffer by habit?

b) would it be p2w?

Logically, if there is no single 'buffer' class/class that exists only to buff and class buffs are always better than buff pots, there wouldn't as a matter of course be a cleric that pays money just to be a pure buffer... would there? After all, there's opportunity cost for those scarce skill points, IM costs real money and we only have 2 game client windows available. No-one would turn themselves into a buffslave on purpose if their buffs would be weaker than a full party. Or am I wrong?)

sure lol my bad when i type that i was busy so rushed through the whole thing.so your main stats now affects your buffs? if so would buffs be as strong as they were with charm? my problem with removing buff from cleric is that now you'll be force to dump some points on charm, points that could've went into any other stats that improves your damage build. you can't bring your buffers into dg or pvp games, so players would have to rely on their main's weaker buffs for stuff like dash and attack speed, which is super important in rose. nobody wanna be running all slow and attacking all slow while doing dg and pvp games, this is what makes rose,rose the fast paced combat and the fast movement. now our gameplay would be slower and more time consuming unless your lucky enough and a soldier and hawker with good buffs join ur run. now making ur main stat affect ur buff could be a dope way to go about this considering that ofc you'll max ur main stat for that maximum damage output so yes i think this is a way better moved. again buffers never affected the gameplay buffers were sodely use for clan wars every pvp clan had buffers, this made the combat fast paced and more entertaining. clerics made pvp games such as cd,akram and draconis way more fun and it made the wars more of a challenge considering that matches would last longer due to clerics ofc, again all of these aspects of rose combat and mechanics that made thousands of people fall in love with rose would take a huge toll due to clerics not being what they were meant for. also were neglecting all those people that love the healer,buffer class that literally is one of the most important class in the game when it comes to gameplay. again considering that the team is working on the solo experience i think nerfing cleric taking all of its buff away is not the way to go, instead they need to focus on making the solo experience more engaging give players that don't want to party or make cleric the opportunity to solo it. they can go about this by making more quest,theme dg ,party quest which are games that you enter with a party for exp. again buffer never hurt the game and i get it you shouldn't depend on cleric, but nerfing cleric or buffers is not the way to go about this creating solo content,expanding the quest side of things to where you can max just by doing quest or again exploring the party quest side of things, something that maplestory pulls off pretty well could help us deal with such issue.

[fercho70]

18 hours ago, TheShredr said:

The underlying problem IMO is that we are all buff addicted. Next to that alot of us have a very nice experience having a max full support buffing cleric. To let that all go in an instant is very hard and a big part of the nostalgia feeling. I understand this.

Personally I never liked the 'need' of a cleric buffer, and this felt forced.

My solution to this would be as I described to remove the CHARM effect to make the buffs stronger. Next to that, I would leave the 'making stronger' effect of the main stat as it is. This will result in weaker buffs in general, but leaves the buffs to the specific classes. This way the class specific roles get more visible, the buffs make those differences in uniqueness less visible IMO.

Personally I don't like the IM availability of buffs.

but we already have weak buffs now that the best in slot charm gear is gone, buffs would be the same as buff potions try doing a dg with buffs like that you'll get destroy and no only that it'll take you at least 25 minute to finish one.

leave cleric as it is just focus on solo content such as party quest i don't know if you guys know what that is, expand the quest meta and boom u dont need a cleric you can level by yourself all the way to max no problem the only place where you'll need a cleric is in dg and pvp games and when it comes to game arena you have no problem finding clerics in dg and pvp games

[TheShredr]

1. So with the cleric buffs, apart from the people that main a cleric, the others will level one to be an AFK buff slave or 1 of every class to min/max the best buffs (not usable in all content). Buff slaves present in the system.

2. With the removal of all buffs to the cleric, the cleric AFK buff slave is gone. The rest still there. Buff slaves present in the system.

3. My suggestion, main stat is leveled anyways. Overall buffs bit weaker since only reliant from 1 stat, this makes every class feel more unique, and you can balance around that. Buff slaves out of the system.

4. OwlChemistVile's suggestion with Buff Arua's and rewriting about all classes around buffs and debuffs. Buff slaves out of the system.

5. Completely remove all the 15 min buffs from all classes and think of short lived (max 30 sec orso) buffs to give classes that fit their specialization. Buff slaves out of the system.

6. Other possibilities.

[Critpeak]

What game are we talking about here?

No buffs...

Auras...

slaves?...

Cleric class is a slave only if YOU personally used it a such.
 

EDIT:

at least cleric WAS a support class, now it's second hand mage

 

Edited December 3, 2022 by Critpeak

[Bobbity]

1 hour ago, Critpeak said:

at least cleric WAS a support class, now it's second hand mage

Valid point. There have been some suggestions around improving the cleric skillset so it offers a LOT more value, not just buff 'n go or buff, heal, flame. What with buffs being an issue, we can't have people thinking clerics are worthless. If buffs were all clerics had to offer, we might as well remove clerics and all have buff pots a la PoE that refill from kills. Have a look around the forum and see what you think.

1 hour ago, Critpeak said:

Cleric class is a slave only if YOU personally used it a such.

You're right; not everyone had buff slaves - but consider. One of the distinguishing features of pservers is the low population of real active players vs the large number of registered characters. That, and a bare handful of people standing around motionless in ONE single map. There's almost no social interaction. That's because players don't rely on each other for anything. It's an MMORPG played as a single player. And that's what we're heading towards if we keep allowing the combo of buff slavery + multiboxing.

[hjvg]

14 hours ago, Bobbity said:

Valid point. There have been some suggestions around improving the cleric skillset so it offers a LOT more value, not just buff 'n go or buff, heal, flame. What with buffs being an issue, we can't have people thinking clerics are worthless. If buffs were all clerics had to offer, we might as well remove clerics and all have buff pots a la PoE that refill from kills. Have a look around the forum and see what you think.

buff and heal was fun when your main char is cleric thats why you chooche it. buffs went up from 3 min to 10min i think because people thought they where to short yes is you dual client ( multiboxing) you want longer buffs i think bringing the duration down of buffs. will make a cleric more active again.

i dont see my self having fun when the only thing i can do is heal. i know people now gone say yes but you can also fight now. but i did play support cleric because that was for me the fun of rose. pressing skills to kill a mob a never had real fun with that

14 hours ago, Bobbity said:

You're right; not everyone had buff slaves - but consider. One of the distinguishing features of pservers is the low population of real active players vs the large number of registered characters. That, and a bare handful of people standing around motionless in ONE single map. There's almost no social interaction. That's because players don't rely on each other for anything. It's an MMORPG played as a single player. And that's what we're heading towards if we keep allowing the combo of buff slavery + multiboxing.

removing the dual client  (multiboxing) was a part of the rason tho change chars but they already changed the mind because people needed to be able to set up a shop so dual client will be allowd. i can already tell you there will not be muuch shops people still wil go for dual client leveling


but its a bit offtopic in this channel sorry for that (but i got the feeling alot think buff slaves means cleric and thats why it every time goes about cleric again)
i think the talk about the cleric suits better here 

 

Edited December 4, 2022 by hjvg

[Bobbity]

We've talked about utilizing the main char stat instead of INT or a so-called 'dump stat' like CHA. We've also discussed using auras, removing buffs entirely (this might need more discussion) and reducing buffs from long fire-and-forget duration to short duration just-in-time casting. We've also linked to discussions about the viability of and improving the skills of clerics (currently the likeliest suspects of buff slavery). Unless somebody else comes up with a nice mechanic, I reckon we've covered the OP's topic.

 

I feel a mix of 2 of these ideas (maybe 3 if we leave auras to clerics and buffs to other classes) could be the way forward if implemented wisely.

[Critpeak]

So is this topic going to be closed too?

If so lock the whole forum until release. 

[HoneyBuns]

4 hours ago, Critpeak said:

So is this topic going to be closed too?

If so lock the whole forum until release. 

No reason to lock this as long as everyone stays respectful of other people's opinions.

[Andramias]

Some kind of people like me likes alot the builds "divercity" i hope this kind of changes plp want dont destroy the "divercity" and posibility dreams D:!

[JaleaRoyal]

Is it a bad idea to remove the stat scalation out of the formula and make the buffs fixed only by its own level? That removes the ''advantage'' of those who create a character with the solely intention of create an unrealistic powerful buff slave. I feel some people underestimates the healing skills. In some games thats the only rol of the support class and its almost required in end game if it cannot be replaced in another ways (like overpowered potions)

[Syn]

I suggest that removing CHA stat or any stats (except your class' main stat) related to increasing buff power is the best way. why?

Because you will be able to get "Max Buff" on your main while building your stats as a "Main"

Example on Raider:

Dex Max

Con 100

Sen 200

STR 150

you will be able to gain max buff w/o wasting your stat points on a non combat related stat/useless stat for your class.

this in turn makes everyone's main their buffer too, so if you have a guild with complete line up of mains you can just get buff from each other which makes the game more interactive.

because if you apply CHA stat on increasing buff, everyone will be forced to make another alt Raider/Champ/etc. that has a stat that only focuses on the Class' main STAT and CHA which is weaker than your main(Combat wise), which in turn results into slave buffers

Edited December 8, 2022 by Syn

[Syn]

to be able to make clerics still viable on buffing the best thing is to separate the buffs  and i think this  is the a good way to separate them

 

Soldier: AP UP,DEF UP
Hawker: ATKSPD UP,DASH

Dealer: Crit up, Accu up

Muse: Hp up, Mp up,

Cleric: Dodge up, Additional Dmge

on the muse part you can't max the buff unless you 2nd job into cleric, like if the max is lvl 10 you can only level it until level 5 then if you 2nd job into mage you can only go until level 7, same with other buff if you go champ you can only lvl 7 def up, and vice versa on knight, and so on
 

Edited December 8, 2022 by Syn