Fix 'buff slaves' once and for all!

[TheShredr]

First let me enlighten you guys with some thoughts and point of view I come from:

• So from what I understand the buffs have been removed from the cleric to make this class a more playable class on its own. I am personally fine with this, because I hated the need of building a cleric solely for buffing chars.
• I thought and heard of people discussing about this, that this may cause people to level a character of every job and max this with Charm and main stat for the best buffs (min/maxing, especially in PvP since it has less effect in PvM). Now I also heard from a reliable source that this was already the case in late NA, clans made buff slaves from every class since those buffs were better then the clerics max buffs. So after all, this problem (in my eyes a problem, since buff slaves still alive) still exists.
• After Trebor showed the descriptions of what all the stats would do, I came up with the following idea. Partly this idea is already existent since apparently the stats already have the effect on buffs.

The Idea/Suggestion

The idea exists of the following steps:

1. Lets remove the 'Increases buff power' enhancement from the CHARM stat. We could transfer the 'Increases heal power' and 'Increase Damage Over Time' enhancements to the INTELLIGENCE stat to make it the muses main stat for buffing, healing and damage or leave them in the CHARM stat for muses build diversity. Next to that or as extra option we could for example add a 'Decreases cooldown reduction' enhancement to the CHARM stat (this is done in 'the not to be named private server' I believe).
   
    
2. Since the 'Increases soldier buff power' enhancement for the STRENGTH stat is already there, we can leave it as is.
   
    
3. Since the 'Increases hawker buff power' enhancement for the DEXTERITY stat is already there, we can leave it as is.
   
    
4. Since the 'Increases muse buff power' enhancement for the INTELLIGENCE stat is already there, we can leave it as is.
   
    
5. For some reason there is no 'Increases dealer buff power' enhancement in the main stats CONCENTRATION/SENSIBILITY for dealers. If we add that enhancement to one of those, that would be my suggestion.
   
   

By doing the changes described above I believe you remove the specific builds people will make for a buff slave. Probably people will max their main stat for the class anyways, and this way they have the highest possible buffs achievable in their main chars.

Let me know what you guys think about the suggestion!

 

Edited November 26, 2022 by TheShredr
Changed charm image

[HoneyBuns]

I just want to mention something so there is no confusion. The description of what charm does is incorrect in the game right now.  It does NOT affect buying or selling.  That description will be fixed with the next alpha update.

[hjvg]

clerics got killed here? 
i am not sure if i am going to play but if the cleric is a useless class now then i will probley not hold up for long.i think the idea of partying and needing each job and cleric for the buffs was the charm of roseonline.

cleric needed always int i would not see why they would change it to charm

[Avatar]

14 minutes ago, hjvg said:

clerics got killed here? 
i am not sure if i am going to play but if the cleric is a useless class now then i will probley not hold up for long.i think the idea of partying and needing each job and cleric for the buffs was the charm of roseonline.

cleric needed always int i would not see why they would change it to charm

It was changed to charm a few years ago by the previous developers at Warp Portal. 

INT still increases the potency of buffs, but CHA increases it slightly more than INT. 

[hjvg]

sounds strange to me and it does already gives me a feeling of should i really even put the evert on it to start playing.

but yea i can not find a real explanation somewhere yet of wat has changed and how classes should be played atm

[Avatar]

4 hours ago, hjvg said:

sounds strange to me and it does already gives me a feeling of should i really even put the evert on it to start playing.

but yea i can not find a real explanation somewhere yet of wat has changed and how classes should be played atm

Don’t let any change effect your decision. Try it out first.

I remember seeing your name. It’s crazy. A knight comes to mind. You were one of the people I wanted to be like when I grew up.. and it would be nice to see you in game again. 

Many guides currently exist explaining the differences. @HoneyBunseven had one explaining almost all differences from iRose to Evo and I’m sure that’ll get updated by her and others by the time the game releases. It’s not iRose, no, but I think a lot of the changes were done for the better. 

[HoneyBuns]

5 hours ago, hjvg said:

sounds strange to me and it does already gives me a feeling of should i really even put the evert on it to start playing.

but yea i can not find a real explanation somewhere yet of wat has changed and how classes should be played atm

Just poke me on Discord anytime.  Everything has not been finalized yet but I can help you at least get some understanding of the differences between evo and iRose.

 

[hjvg]

5 hours ago, Avatar said:

I remember seeing your name. It’s crazy. A knight comes to mind. You were one of the people I wanted to be like when I grew up.. and it would be nice to see you in game again. 

the knight was my brother Firekiller

my main char and for a long time only char was my cleric

[TheShredr]

Could we please use this topic to discuss the suggestion please? No single comment here is reacting to the idea.

[Nemue]

So instead of 1 'buff slave' (which is how everyone calls cleric) you now need a char of each class with max main stat and max charm for best buffs? 

How is this better than the old system can anyone explain me?

[Critpeak]

There is already another cleric topic, with far more opinions, I believe it will be more constructive if some mod merge all cleric topics.

Possibly enabling a vote for what cleric should be will give us greater perspective of what people like more.

 

EDIT: here is the link with currently most discussed cleric topic

 

Edited November 26, 2022 by Critpeak

[TheShredr]

6 minutes ago, Nemue said:

So instead of 1 'buff slave' (which is how everyone calls cleric) you now need a char of each class with max main stat and max charm for best buffs? 

How is this better than the old system can anyone explain me?

If you read the suggestion well the changes indeed have been diverted from 1 single buffer to all classes, but in late NA this was already the case, because for the best buffs you needed the buffs from the specific classes. Those were already better then from a maxed cleric. To make it better and in the line they are going now, I wrote this suggestion.

3 minutes ago, Critpeak said:

There is already another cleric topic, with far more opinions, I believe it will be more constructive if some mod merge all cleric topics.

Possibly enabling a vote for what cleric should be will give us greater perspective of what people like more.

 

Yes, there are other cleric topics with alot of opinions, but those are mostly on how to change the cleric class itself and how the cleric could be used in different ways then buff slave. This topic is about the other classes and their need of CHARM for buffs.

[Critpeak]

In my opinion only cleric should be able to bring buffs to the table. Rest of classes might retain some weaker self-buffs.

Edited November 26, 2022 by Critpeak

[TheShredr]

1 minute ago, Critpeak said:

In my opinion only cleric should have be able to bring buffs to the table. Rest of classes might retain some weaker self-buffs.

That's a valid opinion, but that is not the way the devs have changed directions for now. Changing the cleric back to full buffer is kinda not wanting to try the changes and see how they work out. If they would be changed back, I would indeed rather have the self-buffs be weaker.

But as in stated in my suggestion the classes 'buff slaves' were already a thing in NA, while even cleric buffer was there. So I try to come up with a solution for that aswell as we could figure out a 'new' (or maybe just a healer role and other build for battle cleric) role for cleric.

[hjvg]

but clerics will never be invited in party if they can only heal people will not lose there exp for just heal they will use pots to heal then

[TheShredr]

Just now, hjvg said:

but clerics will never be invited in party if they can only heal people will not lose there exp for just heal they will use pots to heal then

Again, this might be a valid opinion, but is not what this suggestion is about. So please express your disliking of the cleric changes in the topic where that is the main discussion.

[hjvg]

8 minutes ago, TheShredr said:

Again, this might be a valid opinion, but is not what this suggestion is about. So please express your disliking of the cleric changes in the topic where that is the main discussion.

so the only thing you want us to talk about here is

get rit of charm for cleric
and go for only int again on cleric

i already did say i would not understand why using charm so i agree on that.

but the title says fix the cleric but thats the only suggestion i see your doing in the start topic is about the charm and thats not a full cleric fix as far as i understand it

 

Edited November 26, 2022 by hjvg

[TheShredr]

11 minutes ago, hjvg said:

so the only thing you want us to talk about here is

get rit of charm for cleric
and go for only int again on cleric

i already did say i would not understand why using charm so i agree on that.

but the title says fix the cleric but thats the only suggestion i see your doing in the start topic is about the charm and thats not a full cleric fix as far as i understand it

 

Where do you see the word cleric in the title? It says fix 'buff slaves'. Again, in NA there were 'buff slaves' with full CHARM gear from every class, that had better buffs than the full support, full buff cleric class. Please read.

[hjvg]

ok then i would say remove the buffs or get them worse again like they where in Irose.

dont allow all classes to give good buffs


Edit:

so yea cleric for the buffs a real support class like it has been

 

Edited November 26, 2022 by hjvg
litle adition like Critpeak sayed as well

[TheShredr]

5 minutes ago, hjvg said:

ok then i would say remove the buffs or get them worse again like they where in Irose.

dont allow all classes to give good buffs

That is indeed another option, one I don't like personally and not the vision the devs have for now I believe. But if this is what the majority sees as the best solution after trying the new ideas out in EA, I believe they should go that way.

[Critpeak]

7 minutes ago, hjvg said:

ok then i would say remove the buffs or get them worse again like they where in Irose.

dont allow all classes to give good buffs

I'd like to add to that, let cleric have it's purpose and retain all buffs.

[Nemue]

I dont really mind that the buffs are spread out over the different classes but i hate the fact that charm increases buff power.

Because now i'm gonna either need a buff slave with max charm of each class or swap to a full jewelry set of charm gems on my fighters to have decent buffs? 

[TheShredr]

2 minutes ago, Nemue said:

I dont really mind that the buffs are spread out over the different classes but i hate the fact that charm increases buff power.

Because now i'm gonna either need a buff slave with max charm of each class or swap to a full jewelry set of charm gems on my fighters to have decent buffs? 

That is exactly the point this suggestion tries to fix. Maybe in PvM people will not care for that little better buffs, but in the current state of PvP people will min/max those 'buff slaves'.

[Nemue]

Yeah so in pvp each player will log a fighter and a buff slave

Edited November 26, 2022 by Nemue

[fercho70]

On 11/25/2022 at 2:01 PM, hjvg said:

clerics got killed here? 
i am not sure if i am going to play but if the cleric is a useless class now then i will probley not hold up for long.i think the idea of partying and needing each job and cleric for the buffs was the charm of roseonline.

cleric needed always int i would not see why they would change it to charm

its been like since like 2008 it gives u stronger buff where int is more for magic attack and stuff  but i agree with you i think needing a cleric for buff was one of rose main things and ill miss it