[POLL] What do you see as Pay2Win

[rayun]

Here is list collected from chats/forum about various items what was in past in Item mall or have been discussed/requested by users.

Select things you think gives unfair advantage to whoever buys them (hence p2w).

Hopefully people will try to be objective and keep also in mind that game developers needs income in order to run/develop the game.

Pay2Win means that selected feature gives UNFAIR advanture to user who pays compared to others (who DOESNOT pay)

Edited November 2, 2023 by rayun
added some details

[Zeror]

Basicly anything that give someone who pays an advantage to anything ingame compared to someone who does not pay.

Things i consider not Pay2win:

• Buying a fresh high level character. This is not pay2win as this gives you a boost so you play more quickly with friends. This will only make the game more fun. But it option should be limited though. Only 1 per year or something.
• Teleportation tickets (teleport between maps/cities from any place). Can't hurt the game as these can be bought ingame as well.
• Extra storage space or no deposit fee for storage. Can't hurt the game that much. Yes, you could store more items to sell, but a vending shop can only hold that much items each time.
• Costumes/Visuals/etc. As long it's cosmetic it's totally fine.
• Party/group buffs (can buff all party in range instead of one by one). You're not the only one that benefits from it, so it's fine.

Everything else you mention in the poll is pay2win if you ask me.

Edited November 2, 2023 by Zeror

[DoubleRose]

Stuff that other people can't get or can't feasibly earn. Like those IM passives in NA that gave +10% to a stat. Yes there were valor ones, but I think you could have both, so you were able to buy stats.

Faster mounts/carts same thing. Others can't get those bonuses, so you are buying a permanent advantage.

Upgrade success also is p2w like with those rune things in NA and reinforcing in this version. If your odds are unfeasible without the IM, it's p2w.

You could consider the most of rest p2w, but I see it as f2p friendly, which would be a better goal for this game. Without some pay to fast mechanics, a lot of players will leave (and already have). 

[Uliche]

I'm glad this topic has not died. I made 250 about two weeks ago but I still prefer to purchase a visitor 250, i been wanting a mage and a healer i dont want  to do the grind. ever again.

To me a few things are pay2win, and usually those things are end game enhancements. like boosts, passives, and foods better than the ones crafted or bought in game. Also equipment that has better stats than drops from the mobs in game for things like sen/con crafters or charm/in for best buffs. 

 there is already runes that help increase the percentage for refinement but I like to see more pvp arenas and pvm arenas with smaller raids/instances of 3 players and a single currency since some arenas are empty. so i dont mind if people sell them via shop.

Infinite teleportation scroll would be nice but character locked and obtainable at low levels in a a quest, since they have us doing so many boring repeatable quest. it be nice to actually travel different places and get to see the full maps. I missed many maps on each planet because this time around it was not just to hunt in dense mob areas, it was a lot of travel back and forth for the high amount of exp rewarded from turn in quest. But i am also that guy who also prefers to pay that 250 visitor. Ive done this 20+ times already before and this time it was a 1 time two client and it was boring and sickening. the developers need some money to keep game going.

 

i wouldn't mind paying 2 bucks for premium if it came with a bunch of nice stuff like no charge on depositing depot items and more storage. cool seasonal mounts with more speed or carts, more inventory slots on character bag, travel journals, more energy, character slots, aoe buffs without being in party.

[RoseOnPlayer]

The only P2W elements are these two:

1. Anything that affects stats/combat vs player (both direct and indirect).

2. Anything with significant zulie advantage such as being able to trade with others those items bought with real money or item mall (including cosmetics).

Edited November 3, 2023 by RoseOnPlayer

[GodOfEntity]

Here's a pretty simple flow chat. 

[missylove]

sepal events like 2x and 3xp weekends like the old days 

[HilariousFace]

Let's be honest, we can't be too snowflake at calling everything P2W, the game needs to make money somehow in order to be self-sustainable.

In the end, P2W is not the only problem, some people still have advantage over you because they can spend 5+ hours per day, they will certainly have an advantage over you.

I'm ok with Pay to Skip, but not to the degree where if you don't pay up, you never even reach the basic goal of doing something.

You should only be able to pay to get more than basics, but you should not be induced to pay to get to the basic.

[RoseOnPlayer]

On 11/5/2023 at 7:44 AM, GodOfEntity said:

Here's a pretty simple flow chat. 

Depends on the nature of advantage. Does the advantage affects "winning" in terms of combat? If yes > Pay2win. If no > Not pay2win.
 

On 11/8/2023 at 5:40 AM, HilariousFace said:

Let's be honest, we can't be too snowflake at calling everything P2W, the game needs to make money somehow in order to be self-sustainable.

In the end, P2W is not the only problem, some people still have advantage over you because they can spend 5+ hours per day, they will certainly have an advantage over you.

I'm ok with Pay to Skip, but not to the degree where if you don't pay up, you never even reach the basic goal of doing something.

You should only be able to pay to get more than basics, but you should not be induced to pay to get to the basic.

If they play 5+ hours a day, then they deserve that advantage. If one player just paid to skip this, that's pay2win.

Edited November 9, 2023 by RoseOnPlayer

[GodOfEntity]

There are people that will argue false truths as though they are facts, believing in these delusions; Example; Flat Earthers. (leftists, ect.) 

You believing that you can justify something being not pay to win. When it pays to give an advantage. Doesn't make it any less pay to win. 

If someone pays money, to proceed in the game, in any way, shape or form. This is an aspect of pay to win. Your inability to comprehend this, is unfortunate. I wish I had the patience to explain to you in further detail as to why. But currently. I lack this patience. 
But I'll try;
Basically, Paying money for an advantage, is by definition, pay to win. 
Because you are PAYING MONEY. For something that gives you an ADVANTAGE over other players. Paying for an ADVANTAGE is what qualifies something to be considered as pay to win. You are paying for a progression you'd otherwise have to earn. 

Again. You don't have to agree with me, you can say that I'm wrong. 
But I am certain, a judge would agree with my definition. 
Cheers. 

Edited November 9, 2023 by GodOfEntity

[HilariousFace]

8 hours ago, RoseOnPlayer said:

If they play 5+ hours a day, then they deserve that advantage. If one player just paid to skip this, that's pay2win.

It's not that simple, it's a lot deeper than this. If you look at it simply from the outside, of course pay to skip is bad. And to see if something is P2W, you have to look at winning what. Reaching Lv.250 is not winning the game, but in the case of ROSE online, reaching Lv.250 give you access to a lot money making opportunity and the side effect of further nurturing your other character, pay to skip in this case is indirect pay to win.

I'm not an advocate for P2W, I used to be super anti pay to win in the old NA rose, but I grew up, started seeing things from the bigger picture. No one likes pay to win, even right now I don't like it either. My point is, look at the big picture, look around the people in the game, look at the shops in Junon, look at the game arena occurrence and look around the forum activity, if you have played the previous NA rose, you don't see history is repeating itself? The previous NArose had only like 3 developers, it milked the playerbase like mad through refine runes, re-roll hammer, boosters, yet it bite the dust. The current ROSE under Rednim have 6 developers, I doubt it is sustainable in the long run with just cosmetics microtransaction and donation.

This game is not some hyper competitive eSports game. If you are ok with someone spending 5+ hours per day to have an advantage, you should be ok with someone spending a little bit of money to have some convenience as well. But again, I'm not an advocate of P2W, I hate it so much, though there are plenty of ways to monetize this game without interfering with the game's competitive fairness and integrity.

Pay2Win is disgusting because you are fighting against someone with advantage over you due to certain items locked behind paywall, but you know what's more disgusting? Fighting with crap gear against someone with end game gear because you are not as hardcore and elite gamer enough but you have all the knowledge, skill stat build, fighting experience to begin with. PvP is a competition of skills, builds, experience, knowledge, it's not a competition of time investment sink into this game.

So again, when it comes to Pay2Win, you have to identify what you are trying to win.

1) Becoming the wealthiest player

2) Becoming the largest costume collector

3) Becoming the biggest crew, clan

4) Achieving the highest CON, SEN, CHA, AP, DEF, M-Speed, etc

5) Speedrunning to Lv.250, or dungeons time attack

6) Acquiring the best PvM, PvP equipment

I choose not to sink a hundreds of hours in order to set foot to compete not because I'm lazy, but I've seen sht in the past. Saying P2W is not ok but Nolife2Win is ok, is pretty self contradictory and hypocritical.

 

 

[foxxy]

can bring old IM Passivs to IM again AND to Valor/Honor shop. so u can buy if u dun have time to play that long / day/week or invest time to get from honor/Valor an hold ur money.

that is not p2w for me. 

[RoseOnPlayer]

On 11/10/2023 at 1:22 PM, HilariousFace said:

It's not that simple, it's a lot deeper than this. If you look at it simply from the outside, of course pay to skip is bad. And to see if something is P2W, you have to look at winning what. Reaching Lv.250 is not winning the game, but in the case of ROSE online, reaching Lv.250 give you access to a lot money making opportunity and the side effect of further nurturing your other character, pay to skip in this case is indirect pay to win.

I'm not an advocate for P2W, I used to be super anti pay to win in the old NA rose, but I grew up, started seeing things from the bigger picture. No one likes pay to win, even right now I don't like it either. My point is, look at the big picture, look around the people in the game, look at the shops in Junon, look at the game arena occurrence and look around the forum activity, if you have played the previous NA rose, you don't see history is repeating itself? The previous NArose had only like 3 developers, it milked the playerbase like mad through refine runes, re-roll hammer, boosters, yet it bite the dust. The current ROSE under Rednim have 6 developers, I doubt it is sustainable in the long run with just cosmetics microtransaction and donation.

This game is not some hyper competitive eSports game. If you are ok with someone spending 5+ hours per day to have an advantage, you should be ok with someone spending a little bit of money to have some convenience as well. But again, I'm not an advocate of P2W, I hate it so much, though there are plenty of ways to monetize this game without interfering with the game's competitive fairness and integrity.

Pay2Win is disgusting because you are fighting against someone with advantage over you due to certain items locked behind paywall, but you know what's more disgusting? Fighting with crap gear against someone with end game gear because you are not as hardcore and elite gamer enough but you have all the knowledge, skill stat build, fighting experience to begin with. PvP is a competition of skills, builds, experience, knowledge, it's not a competition of time investment sink into this game.

So again, when it comes to Pay2Win, you have to identify what you are trying to win.

1) Becoming the wealthiest player

2) Becoming the largest costume collector

3) Becoming the biggest crew, clan

4) Achieving the highest CON, SEN, CHA, AP, DEF, M-Speed, etc

5) Speedrunning to Lv.250, or dungeons time attack

6) Acquiring the best PvM, PvP equipment

I choose not to sink a hundreds of hours in order to set foot to compete not because I'm lazy, but I've seen sht in the past. Saying P2W is not ok but Nolife2Win is ok, is pretty self contradictory and hypocritical.

 

 

Don't overcomplicate. MOBAs aren't pay to win because even if you spent million dollars, you won't have the advantage in winning the game. There's no such thing as Pay2win when it comes to owning skins.

[Missy1981]

On 11/10/2023 at 3:22 PM, HilariousFace said:

Pay2Win is disgusting because you are fighting against someone with advantage over you due to certain items locked behind paywall, but you know what's more disgusting? Fighting with crap gear against someone with end game gear because you are not as hardcore and elite gamer enough but you have all the knowledge, skill stat build, fighting experience to begin with. PvP is a competition of skills, builds, experience, knowledge, it's not a competition of time investment sink into this game.

 

 

how is it more disgusting to go into a PvP area and getting butt kicked by someone who has put the EFFORT into their build? you just sound like a jelous toddler because your butt hurt from losing

 

... Anyway back to the actual topic... Anything that gives an unfair advantage to those who pay money for the game...

Things like

-special mounts/carts would be pretty awesome, but they have to be char/acc locked

-remote storage access; but only limited types and number of items can be put in at at time. E.g. can only put equip in storage, but you can only use 1 page specific to remote storage with a say 10-1000 zulie increase per item, depending on normal price for storage

-more char's per account would be good, I personally use my char storage to help sort everything

-unique costumes would be awesome, but make them account bound or I believe there would be way to much RMT for people not wanting to support the dev's by buying them the right way

[krynix]

Although I am still on hiatus since the zuliepocalypse, I would like to see a set of IM unique equips that are character bound or account bound that can be used to boosting experience up to level 200 when leveling. I really like to grind the levels but I don't have the luxury of time playing this game by now. Since my hard earned zullies really took a hit, i am having a hard time upgrading my equips and stopped playing. If only there are IM equips for my characters to level why not give another try to play this game again.

[MeNewbie]

On 12/4/2023 at 1:16 AM, krynix said:

Although I am still on hiatus since the zuliepocalypse, I would like to see a set of IM unique equips that are character bound or account bound that can be used to boosting experience up to level 200 when leveling. I really like to grind the levels but I don't have the luxury of time playing this game by now. Since my hard earned zullies really took a hit, i am having a hard time upgrading my equips and stopped playing. If only there are IM equips for my characters to level why not give another try to play this game again.

This ain't gonna happened any time soon because people with p2w mind will always win even if they are wrong.

[Vile]

I find this to be a better indicator of votes [edited at the time of this post]
It is formulated to essentially be Of the number of people who voted [44 at the time] this number of people or, this % of people, voted on this option.

 

Edited December 17, 2023 by OwlchemistVile