Battle artisan poll

[prettywomanlover]

Battle artisan used to be so great in NA rose and so much fun, because of their really high attackspeed. I’m not sure if there were a lot of passives removed, or they were nerfed when buffs were nerfed but they don’t feel similar at all to NA rose. And the fact you can play launcher artisan, coming from NA rose, feels extremely wierd especially that they are so much better than gun and make them feel obsolete and pointless to play. I think gun needs more attack speed for sure, and should better passives similar to launcher. What do you think, do you want to see battle artisan made great again? 

Edited April 18, 2023 by prettywomanlover

[Garnet]

We made no nerf, what happened is we buffed launcher base speed until it feels "great" during Alpha because the old attack speed (0.35) is awfull to play, but for an unknow reason it was kept like this for early-access, we probably went so busy that we completely forgot about it...

Battle Artisan are exactly the same as before so the real poll should be:

- Buff gun attack speed

- Nerf launcher attack speed

- Buff gun attack speed and nerf launcher attack speed

 

(and no battle artisan are not fine the way it is, launcher are at the same time stronger and faster than launcher so something will be done for sure)

[prettywomanlover]

43 minutes ago, Garnet said:

We made no nerf, what happened is we buffed launcher base speed until it feels "great" during Alpha because the old attack speed (0.35) is awfull to play, but for an unknow reason it was kept like this for early-access, we probably went so busy that we completely forgot about it...

Battle Artisan are exactly the same as before so the real poll should be:

- Buff gun attack speed

- Nerf launcher attack speed

- Buff gun attack speed and nerf launcher attack speed

 

(and no battle artisan are not fine the way it is, launcher are at the same time stronger and faster than launcher so something will be done for sure)

Thank you for your response, I totally agree they feel similar attack-speed wise. I’m not sure though if simply buffing attack speed will make people choose gun over launcher, or make it feel as viable. as currently In general, attack speed builds are not very viable and skills/ skill power builds will always dominate them. Currently launcher gets critical passives, crit dmg, and skill power. The only passives launcher doesn’t get is attackspeed, accuracy, and pierce defense. None of those are even close to as good as skill power, crit and crit dmg. I think maybe it would be cool if pierce defense was buffed or they were given some passives skill to apply stacks of pierce defense.  I’ve played with pierce defense quite a lot, and it feels like it barely does anything. Maybe it does not work correctly idk. 
 I really appreciate your reply and am very glad it’s something the team is aware of and desire to balance. 

Edited April 18, 2023 by prettywomanlover

[Phish_]

Gun attack speed should be increased. Crossbow attack speed should also be increased (its the slowest weapon at .45%), though not sure about other slow weapons. Nerfing launcher attack speed doesn't necessarily make guns more appealing and to be fair you're going to be using skills most of the time as a launcher despite the fact that their attack speed was increased. It's just now you can actually utilize auto attacks for single targets again compared to before; launcher still doesn't get attack speed assumes other than 5% potentially from one of the unique skills. The gun skill tree has tools that help encourage a melee build (in the bourg tree particularly) but logically it doesn't make sense that launchers are bother higher attack power and attack speed though its good to know it's an oversight. 

 

On another note attack speed substats should be improved too, the max aspeed sub is 2.25% attack speed compared to max ap being 40 attack power. Even with an auto attack build the 40 attack power substat is going to be better than 2.25% attack speed as far as dps goes on top of it also doing more damage with skills too. 

Edited April 18, 2023 by Phish_

[prettywomanlover]

20 minutes ago, Phish_ said:

Gun attack speed should be increased. Crossbow attack speed should also be increased (its the slowest weapon at .45%), though not sure about other slow weapons. Nerfing launcher attack speed doesn't necessarily make guns more appealing and to be fair you're going to be using skills most of the time as a launcher despite the fact that their attack speed was increased. It's just now you can actually utilize auto attacks for single targets again compared to before; launcher still doesn't get attack speed assumes other than 5% potentially from one of the unique skills. The gun skill tree has tools that help encourage a melee build (in the bourg tree particularly) but logically it doesn't make sense that launchers are bother higher attack power and attack speed though its good to know it's an oversight. 

 

On another note attack speed substats should be improved too, the max aspeed sub is 2.25% attack speed compared to max ap being 40 attack power. Even with an auto attack build the 40 attack power substat is going to be better than 2.25% attack speed as far as dps goes on top of it also doing more damage with skills too. 

Totally agree the 2.25% attack speed max substats are a joke. Grade 3 and 4 substats of almost any stat are often better than attack speed max substats. Would be cool if they increased it and we saw more attack speed builds. It’s one thing I really miss from the old NA rose is good attack speed builds. Spamming skills and avoiding normal attacks because they are so much worse IMO is not very much fun 

Edited April 18, 2023 by prettywomanlover

[Phish_]

Yeah that, it would be cool to have more options for viable attack speed builds (in pvp atleast) they are more niche in pvp and very few classes can really utilize them.

[DoubleRose]

1 hour ago, Garnet said:

We made no nerf, what happened is we buffed launcher base speed until it feels "great" during Alpha because the old attack speed (0.35) is awfull to play, but for an unknow reason it was kept like this for early-access, we probably went so busy that we completely forgot about it...

Battle Artisan are exactly the same as before so the real poll should be:

- Buff gun attack speed

- Nerf launcher attack speed

- Buff gun attack speed and nerf launcher attack speed

 

(and no battle artisan are not fine the way it is, launcher are at the same time stronger and faster than launcher so something will be done for sure)

Buff gun 0.55 to 0.6.

Buff artisan attack speed passive from 20% to 25% or even 30%.

Nerf launcher 0.6 to 0.55 or keep it the same.

[prettywomanlover]

3 hours ago, DoubleRose said:

Buff gun 0.55 to 0.6.

Buff artisan attack speed passive from 20% to 25% or even 30%.

Nerf launcher 0.6 to 0.55 or keep it the same.

That’s like a 10% increase at most and is barely going to do anything. Launcher artisan has more ap, skill power, crit and crit dmg, and almost the same attack speed as gun artisan (who’s practically only role is to have fast attack speed) launcher should not have everything and almost the same attack speed . There’s no point to going gun artisan over launcher even if this is implemented. Even if they made these changes it would barely make any difference.

gun should be increased significantly, enough to counter the extremely powerful passives that launcher gets. If nothing. Battle cleric for example can easily get over 1.05 with their passives alone. They should imo be much faster than that even. I think they should have a base of 1.20 with passives, or even higher maybe that would counter launcher artisans op passives, but honestly I doubt it. Attack speed builds are just not good currently so I think if they did a buff, it should be significant

Edited April 18, 2023 by prettywomanlover

[Vile]

Launcher Artisan was better in raw damage before the alpha changes.
Guns were better for range, and earlier application of sleep and fleeing.

Artisans have more problems than just the debate between gun vs launcher. It needs defensives, a decloak option, and it's crafting impact needs to be looked at I imagine they're struggling for work by now outside of gemstones, potions, and MAYBE ammunition.

If Artisan gets attention, it'd be incentive for me to play the game again. No promises. [Not that it is special me playing, my point was, a number of players would return to the game if Artisans were good at combat, seeing as it's their favorite class]

Edited April 19, 2023 by OwlchemistVile

[prettywomanlover]

5 hours ago, OwlchemistVile said:

Launcher Artisan was better in raw damage before the alpha changes.
Guns were better for range, and earlier application of sleep and fleeing.

Artisans have more problems than just the debate between gun vs launcher. It needs defensives, a decloak option, and it's crafting impact needs to be looked at I imagine they're struggling for work by now outside of gemstones, potions, and MAYBE ammunition.

If Artisan gets attention, it'd be incentive for me to play the game again. No promises. [Not that it is special me playing, my point was, a number of players would return to the game if Artisans were good at combat, seeing as it's their favorite class]

I agree. I absolutely loved the class in NA, but it just feels terrible in this version sadly, unless you play launcher. Even then, you die in like 1-2 hits lol I think what it lacks is CC abilities. the sleep is nice, but i think they need more CC abilities similar to that to keep them alive. For example, maybe some sort of trap they can put on the ground and it traps their legs in place for like 4 seconds or something liek that

Edited April 19, 2023 by prettywomanlover

[Bobbity]

My assumption is that there's a laundry list of things to do before battle artisans (and Dealers in general) get looked at. Accordingly, I'm just spinning my wheels, waiting for the next year or so until that actually happens. There's been discussion and there have also been a lot of suggestions re: dealer combat, crafting and utility skills, CGs, unemployment etc. etc. etc. so I don't need to add anything here except DON'T FORGET TO FIX ARTISANS. 

 

@prettywomanlover I've suggested landmines/proximity mines any number of times, and I've pointed out the overlap between that and scout traps. So, this is known but that discussion still needs to happen seriously at the dev team level.

 

Off-topic: Don't forget to vote on my awesome new timewasting poll: Do katars eat raw meat?