State of ROSE Online - PvE, Artisan, and Cleric

[Kitty]

Hi. I wanted to provide some feedback on the current state of the game and the various systems currently in the game, ranging from classes to game design.

I have a level 250 Cleric and Artisan, and a level 200 Bourgeois.
I've explored and completed Cave of Ulverick, Sea of Dawn, and Halls of Oblivion.
I haven't participated in any PvP arenas solely due to server issues. Focusing mostly on PvE, the most PvP interaction that I've experienced was a small territorial skirmish in Sikuku Ruins for the Bone Spiders and on occasion griefing by higher level players during leveling.

With the following said, my feedback will only consist of cleric, artisan, and the PvE game systems that I've interacted with throughout my journey.
I will only outline the negative experiences in order to keep this short and focus on the critical points.

Cleric

- Early leveling 
Until the point where you can specialize into the healing skills of the Cleric tree, Muse feels extremely reliant on bonfires to compensate for the lack of healing that their skills provide.
MP Recovery was essential in my leveling experience to be able to efficiently rotate all my healing skills to be able to keep my party members up. Keeping bonfires up would also eat up a significant portion of your mana, so MP Recovery is a staple stat in your leveling experience.

In order to provide the most healing and support for my party members, I fully specialized into Charm. This allowed me to have enough MP5 to keep bonfires up and rotate all of my healing skills on cooldown.

Despite having high healing power and access to all my Muse skills, I often struggled to keep my party members alive under stressful situations.

Compared to the Cleric's healing tree, the Muse's healing tree feels very lackluster and could benefit from higher values. It feels very frustrating to have all your skills on cooldown and you are still unable to reliably keep an ally up with the current set of Muse skills.

- Wands
I leveled from 1 to 250 with the same level 30 wand, until I upgraded to a Salvation wand for the reduced MP consumption.

Upgrading wands serves no purpose for full support muse/cleric, as the MP Consumption is almost identical on all wands except the Unique/Exalted wands at end game.

This feels very disappointing as receiving weapon upgrades as you level is one of the most exciting aspects of any MMORPG.

Having available options between a DPS Wand and a Support Wand could be an interesting way of compensating for the lack of healing as a Muse.

- Skills
The following skills feel very lackluster in the Muse/Cleric class trees:
* Heal (Party) - doesn't heal for a lot even at high charm. Probably the worst skill for clerics. I do not use this anymore at level 250.
* Heal (Single Target) - a little bit better than Heal (Party), but still feels lackluster compared to the Cleric skills.

800 and 1300 healing restored compared to Cleric's skills healing for 3k+.

- Unique Skill: Soul Revive
This unique skill is a waste of points. The extra skill points are better used elsewhere. Having the skill point usage reduced significantly may make this skill more sought after.
- Buffs & Charm
Besides increasing your healing, Charm feels almost negligible to increase a Cleric's buff power. The stat only increases the power of the defensive and MP buffs. 
This design feels inconsistent with the buffs the other classes have. This could be due to the buffs being shuffled out to other classes.

Having buff power increased by Charm for the increased damage buff would bring it in line with other classes and their buffs.

Artisan

This class is the master of crafts. Throughout ROSE's history, they're one of the most sought after classes to be friends with/create one alongside Cleric.

This section will only focus on crafting. 

- Crafting UI
I'm not trying to make demands... but the crafting UI is the most unfriendly and clunkiest interface that I've interacted with. It just needs a complete rework.
* Ability to shift left-click materials into the crafting window. Dragging them becomes tedious when you're trying to craft different items.
* Easier way to select craft type and item to be crafted. Not really a big priority, but it would be nice to have a UI where you can easily go through each craft type or even search the item you want to craft, making it easy to access rather than a series of clicks.

- Crafting Skills
Learning the entire crafting tree for Artisan consumes two entire skill bars. While this isn't a big issue, I believe it would be good quality of life to have one skill that opens the crafting UI, and categories of crafting unlock in this UI based on the crafting skills you learn.
Instead of active skills, they would be passive unlock skills.

- SEN Crafting
Crafting with high SEN has become completely useless unless you are seeking max stats or high durability.
The restriction on item grade for max stats negatively hurts crafting unless you are crafting a grade 7 or higher item.

Regardless, at the current state of the game, max stats have become extremely saturated on the market, and fails to compete with Unique max stats which are becoming more sought after.

The game's current design is also at fault as crafted gear is more or less for cosmetic reasons with the implementation of Exalted / Valor / Honor gear.
These game systems make artisan crafting moot.

Why should an Artisan invest into a SEN set if all they are good for is max stats and seeking to min/max your durability and/or dodge rate? 

There is not enough reason to invest into SEN simply because the end gear leans towards non-crafted sets.
- Chemicals & Their Success Rates
Low Essence practically has the same success rate as the highest quality. This really doesn't make sense considering that the chemicals are separated on the drop table by different rarities.
Low Essence, being the lowest quality, should have the lowest success rate when used for gem crafting.
For subsequent tiers, the percentage should go up slowly, and then raise considerably when reaching a quality breakpoint.

This would create a higher demand for higher quality chemicals that are currently worth the same as low essence due to the little difference in success rates.

Leaving the Artisan and Cleric classes aside, I'll go into specific systems which I feel create a negative experience for players in this version of ROSE.

- Exalted Gear
There is just too much exalted gear. As more and more players readily traversed into dungeons, Exalted Gear became a common commodity for almost every shop.
It can be a featured as part of a set you are looking for, or it could have a max stat you are seeking.

After collecting the max stats that I need for my classes, I found the catalogue of Exalted Gear throughout all the shops as a sore sight. 
It is practically in most of the shops that you visit, and I feel like this excess of Exalted Gear / Weapons just creates bloat in shops, as most people will attempt to sell them for more than their disassemble or shop value.

- Drop Tables
* Jewel Boxes as a drop
I've killed a lot of these ghosts and I probably got two jewel boxes throughout my entire leveling experience. Feels like a lottery drop that is as rare as a 240 accessory drop.
Not sure if this was designed as a way to "farm" gems for artisan crafting... but this drop isn't worth actively farming for because dungeons drop Jewel Chest (V).
This is more of a jackpot items for lower level players than it is an actual item you farm, and it feels out of place and has even lower drop chance than a Jewel Chest (V), which is a more valuable item.
* Map Drops
The current drop table for maps leaves much to be desired... I do not think that having the same loot table for every single map to be good game design. This invalidates a lot of older zones or monsters that are considerably tougher, and are available in an easier design somewhere else.

Throughout my leveling experience in Eldeon, I rarely had seen players trying to farm in any of the other maps excepted the "designated quest spots". Zones should have exclusive loot that players can focus their farming on. 

To give enough availability to farming, having multiple zones with similar but different loot would promote players to spread out into different spots.

Goblin Cave used to be popular in previous versions of ROSE, but I seldom had seen players actively trying to farm there because the drop table is identical to the one in Kenji Beach, or Gorge.

* Boss Drops
Bosses in their current state, in lower level and higher level, do not merit the time you take to kill them. The drops are more than often mediocre, ranging from trash drops to absolutely nothing at all. This isn't always the case... but the issue is that it is more often the case that it isn't worth killing them at all because the drop chances are abysmal with and without drop gems.

Spending over four hours hunting bosses in Orlo to receiving common trash drops is very demotivating and disappointing. 
This was done before I had known drop gems were a thing that were taken seriously... but the game seems balanced towards the idea of using drop rate jewels / consumables (from cash shop, on the previous version) instead of putting in the effort to farm something.

Bosses, at lower level, should reward more experience. They should also have their total HP reduced, as without a big party, these bosses are a pain to kill. Killing bosses for experience should be a side activity that new players can participate in to level up. 

You can kill more monsters in the time that it takes to kill one king, and earn more experience than you would killing a king.

- Hope Quest - Chief Turak
A quest available in Sikuku Ruins which makes you collect monster materials in order to enter the Chief Turak maze on the map.
The quest rewards players in your group, individually, a set of chemicals (Lisent U, Lisent HG, and Enthiric), and the amount received can be increased by specializing into Charm.

This quest has completely destroyed the chemical market in the economy and is constantly being abused by clans by stacking a full group and reaping the rewards that are received PER PERSON.

For the sake of the economy, this quest should be completely removed and the maze repurposed into a new Game Arena dungeon that allows players to venture into the maze and challenge Chief Turak and his minions. 

- Uniques
These fall into the same category as Exalted Gear & Weapons.

Uniques have become another source of max stat chasing and has become a sore sight when browsing shops.
The term 'unique' is as good as the term 'common' when defining their rarity. 

Artisans should be one of a few sources for max stat chasing, to give them a reason to invest into a SEN set to craft for friends or for themselves or their services.
- Repeatable Quests
These quests have created a mindless repetitive task of simplifying the leveling experience, which I do not think most players enjoy.

ROSE always had the charm of finding a group of monsters and grinding them to max level. Quests were never a thing in Luna and much less Eldeon. This was one of the most enjoyable aspects of previous ROSE versions which has become invalidated through the introduction of these quests.

They are also responsible for funneling players into specific zones, causing other zones to be completely devoid of activity as their experience rates are nowhere near as luxurious as repeatable quests.

Repeatable quests should be replaced by other activities which are more engaging and interactive with the game world, and experience rates should be increased if the quests are removed in favor of actual grinding.

Ex:
- World Boss quests that reset daily, and give an ample amount of experience
- Lower level dungeon rebalancing and giving the opportunity for players to venture into these and having experience as an extra reward.
- Create a "hunting board" which has the players kill a certain amount of monsters. Kill 2000 - 3000 monsters and receive a flat experience amount.

The repetition of turning in repeatable quests over and over completely kills player interaction in the world and can be replaced by simple ideas like the ones listed above.

- Gems & Itemization
The current gem system feels like it clashes with the classic gems. 
Classic gems seem niche and only used for certain classes because the skill effects on the new gems outweighs the benefit of having pure stats.

The previous gem system where all your gear only used classic gems was a lot more simple and also had Artisans participate in the gearing rush that players venture through.

In the current state of the new gem systems, the lesser tiers of gems are often completely useless because Artisan can only craft classic gems.

Artisans being able to craft and work with the new gems would be a positive change to have lesser tiers have the possibility of becoming a greater gem.

Ex:
2 [12] can be crafted into [13]
2 [2] can be crafted into [3]

- Castle Gear
I think it would be cool if this had a reason to be built. Currently it is completely cosmetic, and has been for many ROSE versions. 

Maybe we could use it as a requirement to enable a world event that all players can participate in?
- Jewel Chest (V)
This jewel chest, which drops from dungeons, is currently the only viable way of progressing through classic gems.
Compared to the new gems, it feels unnatural and also difficult to farm as it is locked behind the RNG of getting the box, and also obtaining the correct gem.

Having these dropped from an open source source would be a good way to create new competitive farming spots.

Closing Notes
I feel like these are some of the major game design problems with ROSE at the moment, and I wished to highlight them for the developers so they can consider redesigning some of these key problems in the future.

Edited February 7, 2023 by Kitty

[Grimdue]

Hopefully the devs see this

[Phish_]

1 hour ago, Kitty said:

 

- Unique Skill: Soul Revive
This unique skill is a waste of points. The extra skill points are better used elsewhere. Having the skill point usage reduced significantly may make this skill more sought after.
- Buffs & Charm
Besides increasing your healing, Charm feels almost negligible to increase a Cleric's buff power. The stat only increases the power of the defensive and MP buffs. 
This design feels inconsistent with the buffs the other classes have. This could be due to the buffs being shuffled out to other classes.

Having buff power increased by Charm for the increased damage buff would bring it in line with other classes and their buffs.

Soul revive  does give you access to 2 revives on separate cooldowns, if youre into that.

I do agree that building a cleric for strong buffs is something that was lost, especially since the mp buff is usually unimportant and magic defense is niche and only useful sometimes. Increasing the enhance damage buff to be based on charm is… a bit dangerous, this can easily get out of hand and be too strong.

I understand the philosophy the devs chose which was to not have clerics be a ‘buff slave’ and give someone strong buffs for 15 minutes while they just do their own thing. However I think clerics should be given like 2 strong short duration buffs (something like a 20 second buff similar to a knights guard buff that you can only cast on one person at a time) so they actually have to use it actively and be present in battle.

I am thinking one offensive buff and one defensive buff

An Offensive buff could be a temporary enhance damage/movement speed buff

The defensive could be something like a crit defense/hp recovery buff (there is no way to increase crit defense other than charm in the game and no crit def buff so I think it’d something to play with. 

 

1 hour ago, Kitty said:

- SEN Crafting
Crafting with high SEN has become completely useless unless you are seeking max stats or high durability.
The restriction on item grade for max stats negatively hurts crafting unless you are crafting a grade 7 or higher item.

Regardless, at the current state of the game, max stats have become extremely saturated on the market, and fails to compete with Unique max stats which are becoming more sought after.

The game's current design is also at fault as crafted gear is more or less for cosmetic reasons with the implementation of Exalted / Valor / Honor gear.
These game systems make artisan crafting moot.

Why should an Artisan invest into a SEN set if all they are good for is max stats and seeking to min/max your durability and/or dodge rate? 

There is not enough reason to invest into SEN simply because the end gear leans towards non-crafted sets.

Crafting max stats is still useful, its just people only really seek out certain combinations.

One thing I think they should do….. The highest craftable armor you can reinforce is level 200, but 220 and 240 armor exists. The highest hardening weapons is for 200, but 225 weapons exists.

I know allowing this will make 240 valor armor and exalted gear less valuable though but it’s kind of lame that artisans haven’t been able to craft the highest level armor since 2010.

  

1 hour ago, Kitty said:

- Chemicals & Their Success Rates
Low Essence practically has the same success rate as the highest quality. This really doesn't make sense considering that the chemicals are separated on the drop table by different rarities.
Low Essence, being the lowest quality, should have the lowest success rate when used for gem crafting.
For subsequent tiers, the percentage should go up slowly, and then raise considerably when reaching a quality breakpoint.

This would create a higher demand for higher quality chemicals that are currently worth the same as low essence due to the little difference in success rates.

Agree with this fully and its kind of dumb how hermes has 1% higher success rate than low essence even though its in the legendary tier. There also doesn’t need to be like 10 different chemicals either when they have almost identical success rates and they just clutter up inventory, especially when doing dungeons because EVERY SINGLE CHEMICAL TYPE drops there. The amount of powders/ lisents was reduced because of this too.

  

1 hour ago, Kitty said:

 

- Exalted Gear
There is just too much exalted gear. As more and more players readily traversed into dungeons, Exalted Gear became a common commodity for almost every shop.
It can be a featured as part of a set you are looking for, or it could have a max stat you are seeking.

After collecting the max stats that I need for my classes, I found the catalogue of Exalted Gear throughout all the shops as a sore sight. 
It is practically in most of the shops that you visit, and I feel like this excess of Exalted Gear / Weapons just creates bloat in shops, as most people will attempt to sell them for more than their disassemble or shop value.

Yeah… I do think dungeon rewards could use some adjustment, but the thing is, some of the rewards will always end up being saturated because that’s one of the main things people do in the end game, unless of course you add a bunch of lackluster rewards but that’s also a really bad way to approach things also. For example 9th grade talismans/bindrunes/apotropes are a reward from sikuku catacombs, when this dungeon first came out this was fine since it was the only way to obtain them (or disassembling exalted gear) and you needed them to refne exalted, but now, they drop in every map over level 200 so theres an abundance of them in game and they are a pitiful reward. On top of that only Shaman Ranka has useful rewards in sikuku catacombs, (sorcery elements and forest ash) as the boss specific rewards from executor ulgath (the capes) are understated and worse than doctors back arms, and Gloppy (Gloopy Mask) is lousy because of the movement speed penalty. When runes were a thing you could get different runes from all the bosses which made fighting them more appealing.

 

  

1 hour ago, Kitty said:

- Uniques
These fall into the same category as Exalted Gear & Weapons.

Uniques have become another source of max stat chasing and has become a sore sight when browsing shops.
The term 'unique' is as good as the term 'common' when defining their rarity. 

Artisans should be one of a few sources for max stat chasing, to give them a reason to invest into a SEN set to craft for friends or for themselves or their services.

So yeah this a good topic. The stronger low level uniques get flooded due to Cave of Ulverick and Halls of Oblivion. Now you could say just reduce the rate of getting these uniques  as rewards or even remove them completely (from cou probably), however then those rewards need to be replaced with something else (which will likely flood the market UNLESS its something you need a lot of en masse that its not really flooding. Another issue comes down refining uniques…. You refine them with ancient scarabs, and you get scarabs? Dissassembling uniques….. and you don’t need 1 like you do with talis/binds/apotropes… you need 5. So there pretty much needs to be enough of supply of uniques in game to sate the necessary demand of refining them. Alternatively you could just increase the drop rate of scarabs (they’re literally like the rarest thing in the game to drop lol) but also in order to get unique substats you need to actually get a decent amount of unique items as they cant be crafted at all.

 

  

1 hour ago, Kitty said:

- Gems & Itemization
The current gem system feels like it clashes with the classic gems. 
Classic gems seem niche and only used for certain classes because the skill effects on the new gems outweighs the benefit of having pure stats.

The previous gem system where all your gear only used classic gems was a lot more simple and also had Artisans participate in the gearing rush that players venture through.

In the current state of the new gem systems, the lesser tiers of gems are often completely useless because Artisan can only craft classic gems.

Artisans being able to craft and work with the new gems would be a positive change to have lesser tiers have the possibility of becoming a greater gem.

Ex:
2 [12] can be crafted into [13]
2 [2] can be crafted into [3]

I was thinking about this also but I feel it would only really be useful if you get 12’s and not the very early games ones. The boss drop gems were added as a way to utilize the new stats and to give more things to make bosses worth farming.

 

Edited February 7, 2023 by Phish_

[Kayuchi]

Agreed with everything. Every minute no action is taken destroys the market further.

Its not the buggy worse connecting things that is slowly killing the game already. It are the exploits. And there have been numerous so far.

And the droptable is just shit, see also 'farming is dead in this current rose version topic'

[Fietsopa]

24 minutes ago, Kayuchi said:

Agreed with everything. Every minute no action is taken destroys the market further.

Its not the buggy worse connecting things that is slowly killing the game already. It are the exploits. And there have been numerous so far.

And the droptable is just shit, see also 'farming is dead in this current rose version topic'

Well, I guess most people benefitting from this will keep quiet about some of the more game-breaking exploits such as possible dupes or quest/disassemble abuse, so until someone grows a backbone to spill the beans the status quo will continue. That's why I think committing to no reset when you know your game will launch with a considerable likelihood for game-breaking exploits is a bad idea from a dev standpoint.

I see three possibilities and each of them is damaging in different ways, all stemming, in my opinion, from the no-reset-even-though-it's-early-access mindset.

• The exploits are fixed but nothing is done to fix the damage already caused, so the game "launches" with an oversaturated economy, which potentially kills interest for new joiners.
• The exploits are fixed and something is done to roll back exploits but no reset. This would be incredibly hard to do if there no proper database to follow items and is complicated further when, for example, a dupe is sold to someone who legitimately farmed the zulie to buy a "clean" item. This sounds unrealistic. 
•  The exploits are fixed and there is some type of reset (e.g. parallel server opens up on launch and encourages the "Early Access" server to merge over time).

[DoubleRose]

Can't have a single discussion of what actually needs fixing without the "what if we just nuked everything?" people coming out of the woodwork. Resetting fixes zero underlying problems. Where's the scenario of everything gets wiped without no real changes and everyone just quits?

It would not be hard for the devs to halve the reward of the Turak Ritual quest and cut unique drop rates while they think of a solution. Not hard to switch the gem chests for a thing you can trade with the npc for a grade 3 gem of your choice. Kind of concerning that they haven't done that when they know these things are issues. I know the server and fossil are bigger issues, but these are such low hanging fruit.

[Fietsopa]

23 minutes ago, DoubleRose said:

Can't have a single discussion of what actually needs fixing without the "what if we just nuked everything?" people coming out of the woodwork. Resetting fixes zero underlying problems. Where's the scenario of everything gets wiped without no real changes and everyone just quits?

It would not be hard for the devs to halve the reward of the Turak Ritual quest and cut unique drop rates while they think of a solution. Not hard to switch the gem chests for a thing you can trade with the npc for a grade 3 gem of your choice. Kind of concerning that they haven't done that when they know these things are issues. I know the server and fossil are bigger issues, but these are such low hanging fruit.

I'm pretty sure most of the people open to a reset actually want problems to be fixed before resetting. There are probably very, very few people who are foolish enough to believe that a simple reset, without first fixing the underlying exploits and bugs, will change something.

The point being made, rather, is that certain items and resources appear to have entered the economy in vastly increased quantities because of various exploits, abuses, or lack of balancing. Depending on the depth of the problem and the population of the server, it might legitimately take a long time to drain out these items and stabilise the rate of obtaining such items to a value that makes sense for progression. Aspects like the availability of uniques or refining materials have a direct effect on player retention and engagement - if new joiners have access to the higher tier of gear immediately because so much of that gear has been generated via exploit, abuse or simply by lack of proper balancing, then you essentially cut off a large chunk of the sustained progress these players should experience as they level through the game. Also, you hit pretty hard any "nostalgia" players who join to see not only vast changes to the core game features they remember and love (e.g. buffs) but also a market that resembles a long-running private server instead of a fresh "official" server. 

Regardless of whether you favour some form of reset or not, pretty sure all agree that step one is resolving the outstanding issues. Only after that can you take stock of the situation and see how to tackle the damage caused by what you just fixed. But there is an element of timing that is crucial here. There is a time window where you need to work on this before you bleed out. 

[DoubleRose]

On 2/7/2023 at 10:20 AM, Fietsopa said:

Also, you hit pretty hard any "nostalgia" players who join to see not only vast changes to the core game features they remember and love (e.g. buffs) but also a market that resembles a long-running private server instead of a fresh "official" server. 

Regardless of whether you favour some form of reset or not, pretty sure all agree that step one is resolving the outstanding issues. Only after that can you take stock of the situation and see how to tackle the damage caused by what you just fixed. But there is an element of timing that is crucial here. There is a time window where you need to work on this before you bleed out. 

If things could be fixed now, there will be time for things to correct during early access. I'm not saying to the point that every problem is solved, but that their remaining harm will be far smaller than the damage done to the game by wiping it at that point. That's why it is frustrating to have steps in the right direction that are not being taken.

Most or all nostalgia players are already playing or were unhappy with server issues and are waiting. The amount of gear available when new players start comes down the vision of what the launch after early access should look like. By saying no wipe, the devs made early access the official, buggy launch. They cannot market the "official" launch as the first launch unless they nuke everything. They would have to make their core fans suffer through the luna grind and royals of oblivion all over again. As long as Rednim complies with European laws and updates the game every so often, it will survive. Rose lasted so long even when Warpportal was just milking it to death, so having devs that care will be enough once the log in server works. The goal should be to fix stuff enough while keeping the core base happy because that will be sufficient for the game to keep running.

 

 

[Frikion]

I agree with all the points, I would add the valor store equipment and materials.

The materials in the store are what rendered farming useless, the full equipment with relatively good options annihilated the reinforced and hardened craft with good options ( sen artisan).
The main issue here is that they brought back a version of NArose that was sick, changes that were made to keep the active population of the game, mostly all max level, not to attract or maintain new income. 

I agree with the honor store, but the valor store has to change or the economy of the game will never have a solid base (mostly created by the crafters).

Example:

Valor equipment should be up to level 120, and so value quests from that level down should deliver something more points to make it attractive. Already after that level is a job in the hands of the craftsman.
No weapon of value, this leave it up to the crafter and the unique weapons that are currently abundant. 

I don't have an opinion on class balance because I think that's something that is always changing in a game. 

Edited February 9, 2023 by Frikion

[Sjoerd]

Economy is too ruined.. far beyond fixable.  Market flooded with almost highest level of chems (enth), very powerful grade 13 gems and uniques that are in no way unique anymore. This was already known a couple of weeks ago and it is still ongoing and will probably go on for more weeks until actions are finally taken.

Edited February 9, 2023 by Sjoerd

[Kayuchi]

What concerns me the most is that no staff member have replied here. Like this is beneficial for this games future.

@HazDS can you maybe give us some intel? As I see you quite often on the forum.

[Chocaholic]

I fully support the part about the map drops. Find some friends to hunt specific drops was fun and made sure that the complete map was used.

[Phish_]

9 hours ago, Frikion said:

I agree with all the points, I would add the valor store equipment and materials.

The materials in the store are what rendered farming useless, the full equipment with relatively good options annihilated the reinforced and hardened craft with good options ( sen artisan).
The main issue here is that they brought back a version of NArose that was sick, changes that were made to keep the active population of the game, mostly all max level, not to attract or maintain new income. 

I agree with the honor store, but the valor store has to change or the economy of the game will never have a solid base (mostly created by the crafters).

Example:

Valor equipment should be up to level 120, and so value quests from that level down should deliver something more points to make it attractive. Already after that level is a job in the hands of the craftsman.
No weapon of value, this leave it up to the crafter and the unique weapons that are currently abundant. 

I don't have an opinion on class balance because I think that's something that is always changing in a game. 

The Valor shop materials are an almost negligible impact on the economy. Every piece of metal, wood, cloth, stone, leather can be aquired by dissassembling yellow gear you buy from a weapon/armor npc at a much better cost efficiency than using valor on it. The only materials from the valor shop that you might bother even getting are ones like sharp thorn, dragon scales and paper wing pieces because they only drop from like 1-2 mobs and the drop rate is too low.  

Edited February 9, 2023 by Phish_

[Frikion]

12 hours ago, Phish_ said:

The Valor shop materials are an almost negligible impact on the economy. Every piece of metal, wood, cloth, stone, leather can be aquired by dissassembling yellow gear you buy from a weapon/armor npc at a much better cost efficiency than using valor on it. The only materials from the valor shop that you might bother even getting are ones like sharp thorn, dragon scales and paper wing pieces because they only drop from like 1-2 mobs and the drop rate is too low.  

It is understood, but you are talking from the point of view of the artisan, that is, if I want to create something with my artisan I clearly look for the materials by disassembling or something.
The artisan originally buying the materials mostly chemical was a way to make zulie when you were starting out and currently that is not the case.
My point is that with all these equipment upgrades and facilities with the valor quests, the crafter has lost much of his job, and it's not bad because now it is used in battle but I do not know the pace of the game is based on only high levels, and no one enjoys the road and only focus on running to the top.
But well I think that's already something generational hahahaha

[Katy]

 I agree with so much of what has already been said. But I do believe that it will be addressed in time. Server stability has to come first. Rose code has a lot of rabbit holes and that's putting it nicely.

The market is whack atm for real, but it's hard to realize or predict how a massive influx of players are going to affect the economy. I didn't believe how many people maxed and had billions of zulie and I'm only playing for a week??? I also noticed that about 80%+ of shops are drops which is my first red flag in a Rose server. (Remember that time you are dying to play Rose and you find a server, grind to Zant, no zulie for skill books muchless weapon upgrade, but find Junon is loaded with gazzillion zulie end game gear? You quit and uninstall immediately?)

I'm taking my time to enjoy the game rather than to max. I am leveling up a solo cleric. Also trying to dual client a support cleric with an artisan. Not really feeling the artisan tho. Pretty much easier to just farm zulie and buy the stuff because barely anything I NEED at this point is crafted. The exception is enhanced armor/weapons but the cost is high. I would love to see artisans crafting up costume gears. And in different colors. I LOVE to dress all my dollies. I feel that the crafting system needs a major overhaul, but with a well thought out and somewhat different agenda.  Consideration should be given to the progression of artisan. They are almost worthless until max level?  It would be nice to have farming as a reason to build bourgs and mages. There should always be reasons to go back to lower level maps. It creates a more social environment.

I am not complaining as I know just how much there is to be done and I think the team is going a nice job of it.

My biggest concern for the state of the game atm is clans and friends. I mean, let's be honest. There is no way to connect to people without it which is why most of us loved Rose to begin with. Just my two cents

[Kitty]

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The Valor shop materials are an almost negligible impact on the economy. Every piece of metal, wood, cloth, stone, leather can be aquired by dissassembling yellow gear you buy from a weapon/armor npc at a much better cost efficiency than using valor on it.

I usually just bought all the materials I needed with Valor because it was a pain to research what disassembled into something.
And most of the time when I disassembled, it felt like the odds were against me and I only got blades. 
 

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Pretty much easier to just farm zulie and buy the stuff because barely anything I NEED at this point is crafted. The exception is enhanced armor/weapons but the cost is high.
Consideration should be given to the progression of artisan. They are almost worthless until max level?

Artisans benefit from reaching max level because their total success rate % is increased every level.
If you already have very high or 100% success rates, then it doesn't matter as much. If you are trying to gem craft, then every % that you can get is valuable because the percentage of success will always be low for high grade gems.

It's already a pain to level an Artisan, as they barely have any AoE. Much less having to do repeatable quests with one...
And on top of that, they are near worthless at max level unless you do gem crafting because there is truly not much that players need from their crafts besides low level gear reinforcements, gem crafting, and a few high level crafts (wings of the pheonix, accessories) 

 

Edited February 10, 2023 by Kitty

[Phish_]

1 hour ago, Kitty said:

I usually just bought all the materials I needed with Valor because it was a pain to research what disassembled into something.
And most of the time when I disassembled, it felt like the odds were against me and I only got blades. 


 

A good rule of thumb is you'll get the same materials when you disassemble that it would take to craft it. 

 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/u/0/d/1uXClAevF9ep55Nc9y7kKLVrCXz10OBWcEIdcMHMT1OM/htmlview

The Google doc with crafting recipes is a good reference for that.