Don't consume Basic Arrow/Basic Bullets

[Aquil]

Hello,

Since there is durability on items, I kinda find it stupid to constant bring the arrows with me as a bow hawker, it ruins the experience of having fun in this game to be honest, arrows cost 0 zulie anyway, so why we cant just make it buy only 1 for good. Muses can shot attacks without any magic arrows or anything like that, why not make it for hawkers/dealers too  Or maybe make a Hawker passive skill in bow/crossbow tab to need only 1 arrow and it dont end

Edited January 1, 2023 by Aquil

[Zurn]

I think all ammo should be either an increase to the stacks limit or make something like (for arrows) a quiver you purchase, lets say for wooden arrows its 0 zulie, bone arrows, maybe 1,000 zulie, and so on. Once bought it has endless arrows of that type, or a set amount like 100,000 or maybe even a timer for a few days

[Vile]

Artisan craft arrows. I've talked on this point before but the long and short of it is.

Wooden Arrow should be "default" and unlimited unless a special arrow is equipped, then it will use those arrows on attack. If you run out, you default back to your basic wooden arrow.

I am NOT in favor of removing ammunition crafting from the market, or the list of goods Artisans provide.

[Aquil]

2 minutes ago, OwlchemistVile said:

Artisan craft arrows. I've talked on this point before but the long and short of it is.

Wooden Arrow should be "default" and unlimited unless a special arrow is equipped, then it will use those arrows on attack. If you run out, you default back to your basic wooden arrow.

I am NOT in favor of removing ammunition crafting from the market, or the list of goods Artisans provide.

Yeah that's what i meant, just leave the better ammunition as it is, just make basic infinite/default as u say

[Sneaux]

Agreed, all basic Ammunition should be automatically and infinitely used with no Ammo equipped. If you want better ammo you equip it in limited quantity. I also agree with Zurn that an equippable Quiver/Ammo Box item or bigger ammo stacks would be a great addition too.

[Zeror]

6 minutes ago, Sneaux said:

Agreed, all basic Ammunition should be automatically and infinitely used with no Ammo equipped. If you want better ammo you equip it in limited quantity. I also agree with Zurn that an equippable Quiver/Ammo Box item or bigger ammo stacks would be a great addition too.

This indeed.

Maybe even add a basic skill (for all classes) to switch between basic ammo or equipped ammo.

[Bobbity]

No. I oppose this suggestion completely in its current form.

 

On 1/1/2023 at 3:09 AM, Aquil said:

Muses can shot attacks without any magic arrows or anything like that, why not make it for hawkers/dealers too

How do I shot web, bro? Muses wield the power of a god. That's what mana is, the metaphysical 'weight', force, presence, gravity, importance and power of a being, and we are gifted with Arua's mana. Those who follow the muse path get to wield it in even more focused and versatile ways.

 

On 1/2/2023 at 1:06 AM, OwlchemistVile said:

Artisan craft arrows. I've talked on this point before but the long and short of it is.

Wooden Arrow should be "default" and unlimited unless a special arrow is equipped, then it will use those arrows on attack. If you run out, you default back to your basic wooden arrow.

I don't have a huge problem allowing hawkers to learn how to fletch arrows. If a level 10 dealer can do it with just a leg bone and some wood it shouldn't be beyond a hawker's capabilities to learn it eventually. I'd support it as a PvM valor skill, something you'd work towards earning and learning, not a basic skill. Dealers need to eat too. In the same way that we don't want ALL the buffs on clerics, we don't need to have literally ALL crafting on dealers. If a spear-champ wants to learn how to craft spears, who am I to stop her? Sure, she can't equip a crafting hammer so things won't ever be easy, but don't let your dreams be memes, guys.

 

Now onto the meat and potatoes of the post. I am once again asking for your financial support you to consider the following: 

• Economics is all about demand, supply, excess and deprivation, and most importantly, opportunity cost
• Dealers are the economics-oriented class
• if any ammo exists in a permanently free state such that you don't even need to buy it more than once you are depriving dealers of part of their economy
• if bone arrows can be crafted from animal leg bones and any spare bit of wood, surely basic ammo can be crafted from a more available recipe

 

Right now, gunpowder packets x25 + iron x5 through Alchemy can give you iron bullets. That's the lowest tier of crafted ammo available. Launcher enjoyers have to wait until they get to tiar-dropping maps before they get their turn (35-40 levels later?) In my experience, iron isn't as readily available as animal bone legs. It doesn't drop in large volume, nor is it reliably procced as a disassembly product. Yet it's used in NPC gear and a number of crafted items (even face items). Clearly, it'd be a balance issue to make iron drop more readily. Why can't we just have bean bullets and normal bullets made from varying quantities of free-dropping looted metals? Rusted iron, tin, bronze, copper etc. Or just some tier of bullets lower than iron bullets, essentially. Here's the current layout:

Bean bullets: quality 5, dmg +3

Bullets: quality 10, dmg +5

Iron bullets: quality 15, dmg +9

 

To paraphrase a great Ben Stiller movie, if you can make an air gun from rusted iron and tin you can make bullets from rusted iron and tin.

 

Just the decision that a dealer has to make whether to sell looted mats vs store them is a huge part of why people become dealers (or should I say ARE Dealers.) The option to use these mats for enhancing their attack damage vs other options only adds to that decision, that feeling. It's the feeling of living between the extremes of a skint flat-broke scrub in mismatched patchwork looted armor and being the CEO of a major guild, commanding an army of lethal mechs, knowing you could become or go back to either based on your increasing knowledge and hard work. In other words, there has to be the risk of poverty and the glowing prize of wealth for dealers to be dealers. When you take away the most basic poverty one can experience, you're taking away an entire layer of decision-making from what it means to be a Dealer. You're also forcing a meta that should not be forced.

 

I might've rambled there, so if you need clarity, let me know and I'll try to do it better.

 

 

 

Edited January 5, 2023 by Bobbity

[Sneaux]

33 minutes ago, Bobbity said:

No. I oppose this suggestion completely in its current form.

 

How do I shot web, bro? Muses wield the power of a god. That's what mana is, the metaphysical 'weight', force, presence, gravity, importance and power of a being, and we are gifted with Arua's mana. Those who follow the muse path get to wield it in even more focused and versatile ways.

 

I don't have a huge problem allowing hawkers to learn how to fletch arrows. If a level 10 dealer can do it with just a leg bone and some wood it shouldn't be beyond a hawker's capabilities to learn it eventually. I'd support it as a PvM valor skill, something you'd work towards earning and learning, not a basic skill. Dealers need to eat too. In the same way that we don't want ALL the buffs on clerics, we don't need to have literally ALL crafting on dealers. If a spear-champ wants to learn how to craft spears, who am I to stop her? Sure, she can't equip a crafting hammer so things won't ever be easy, but don't let your dreams be memes, guys.

 

Now onto the meat and potatoes of the post. I am once again asking for your financial support you to consider the following: 

• Economics is all about demand, supply, excess and deprivation, and most importantly, opportunity cost
• Dealers are the economics-oriented class
• if any ammo exists in a permanently free state such that you don't even need to buy it more than once you are depriving dealers of part of their economy
• if bone arrows can be crafted from animal leg bones and any spare bit of wood, surely basic ammo can be crafted from a more available recipe

 

Right now, gunpowder packets x25 + iron x5 through Alchemy can give you iron bullets. That's the lowest tier of crafted ammo available. Launcher enjoyers have to wait until they get to tiar-dropping maps before they get their turn (35-40 levels later?) In my experience, iron isn't as readily available as animal bone legs. It doesn't drop in large volume, nor is it reliably procced as a disassembly product. Yet it's used in NPC gear and a number of crafted items (even face items). Clearly, it'd be a balance issue to make iron drop more readily. Why can't we just have bean bullets and normal bullets made from varying quantities of free-dropping looted metals? Rusted iron, tin, bronze, copper etc. Or just some tier of bullets lower than iron bullets, essentially. Here's the current layout:

Bean bullets: quality 5, dmg +3

Bullets: quality 10, dmg +5

Iron bullets: quality 15, dmg +9

 

To paraphrase a great Ben Stiller movie, if you can make an air gun from rusted iron and tin you can make bullets from rusted iron and tin.

 

Just the decision that a dealer has to make whether to sell looted mats vs store them is a huge part of why people become dealers (or should I say ARE Dealers.) The option to use these mats for enhancing their attack damage vs other options only adds to that decision, that feeling. It's the feeling of living between the extremes of a skint flat-broke scrub in mismatched patchwork looted armor and being the CEO of a major guild, commanding an army of lethal mechs, knowing you could become or go back to either based on your increasing knowledge and hard work. In other words, there has to be the risk of poverty and the glowing prize of wealth for dealers to be dealers. When you take away the most basic poverty one can experience, you're taking away an entire layer of decision-making from what it means to be a Dealer. You're also forcing a meta that should not be forced.

 

I might've rambled there, so if you need clarity, let me know and I'll try to do it better.

 

 

 

I think the best solution here is to make basic 0z ammo a default ammo that doesn't have to be purchased and is used when ammo isn't equipped. Leave the other ammos alone, no one time purchase ammo equipment. Dealers still need to be able to craft and sell good ammo.

 

I do support making ammo stack higher than 999 though. But as it stands now, if we just made basic 0z ammo infinite you have to choose between lower attack and more ETC space or higher attack and less ETC space.

[Zeror]

49 minutes ago, Sneaux said:

I do support making ammo stack higher than 999 though. But as it stands now, if we just made basic 0z ammo infinite you have to choose between lower attack and more ETC space or higher attack and less ETC space.

Move ammo to Consumption tab instead perhaps.

[Bobbity]

1 hour ago, Sneaux said:

I think the best solution here is to make basic 0z ammo a default ammo that doesn't have to be purchased and is used when ammo isn't equipped. Leave the other ammos alone, no one time purchase ammo equipment. Dealers still need to be able to craft and sell good ammo.

 

I do support making ammo stack higher than 999 though. But as it stands now, if we just made basic 0z ammo infinite you have to choose between lower attack and more ETC space or higher attack and less ETC space.

You just quoted my whole post just to ignore it. Why? I have already stated why your idea is bad. Your post says nothing new and offers no meaningful solutions acceptable to Dealers or that is sustainable over the long term. This is not a pserver. You can't just do stupid stuff willy-nilly and ignore the consequences. What is your answer to what I proposed?

Edited January 5, 2023 by Bobbity
Fell asleep while typing

[Sneaux]

2 hours ago, Bobbity said:

You just quoted my whole post just to ignore it. Why? I have already stated why your idea is bad. Your post says nothing new and offers no meaningful solutions acceptable to Dealers or that is sustainable over the long term. This is not a pserver. You can't just do stupid stuff willy-nilly and ignore the consequences. What is your answer to what I proposed?

Your post seems to have an issue with messing with Dealers' money making because someone suggested people could buy one use equipment ammo where you buy it and then you have it forever. I don't like that suggestion because it hurts crafted ammo profitability.

So how is making the ammo that's already free and doesn't affect Dealers at all infinite and a default ammo conflict with your post?

I read your whole post and it was just a rant about taking away Dealers' ability to make money from crafted ammo and ranting about loot drops and recipes. But they already don't make any money from the basic free ammo you can already buy at an NPC.

So clearly you haven't been reading the whole topic here or you would have seen that, or maybe you just didn't actually read anything I said and raged out on me instead.

Making the basic, already free ammo able to be used infinitely and by default when no other ammo is equipped doesn't harm Dealers' profitability in any way, shape, or form. Because they can already craft better quality ammo to sell and the basic ammo is already free.

[LMDM]

honestly i would be happy with larger stacks and to be honest it not going in the materials tab in game if anything put it in consumable, there is always room for them i hate haveing to make a decision on how many slots i should eat up in my materials tab to determine how long i can go out and kill things. weght is not an issue backpacks solve that but slots are and how much you can carry is severely decreased by carrying ammo that you need to play the game  

[Bobbity]

Sorry if it came off like a rant. It feels like you aren't a dealer because you don't seem to think like one. It's not about the money per se, it's the entire Dealer experience.  In fact, it's the entire ROSE experience.

Spoiler

Imagine Dealers don't need to craft until lvl 250. No need for reinf, no hardened, no enchanted or endowed, just pew pew with launcher. Is that class still a Dealer? You're doing exactly that by progressively removing the scarcity economy that is at the heart of the dealer. We do all that because we're driven. That entire cycle of 'kill, loot, disassemble, craft, sell, kill, loot' isn't just because we like it but because that's what we do. When I hunt and loot it's because I'm satisfying a need. You're coming with the mentality that needs, deprivation and scarcity are bad and wrong. That's a pserver mentality. Pserver devs don't give a damn; if the paying customer wants his Faith costumes with +10000 ATK and ASPD then that's what he'll get.  Want wings with +3000 MS? Sure.

We exist in an economy of (artificial) scarcity: of skill points, toughness, dps, money, inventory and storage space. Even connections. it's artificial but it's REAL.  If you have this fake ammo thing, dealers won't bother crafting higher dps ammo because it doesn't make fiscal sense to prioritize ammo crafting. It'd be a waste of skill points. The only people who'd craft better ammo are already settled, levelcapped, vending in Junon, prepping for AA and maybe some demanding dg like SC. 

I used to craft backseats and reinf for a living. Most of my trade was by word of mouth since I sold significantly under market price. Of course, that meant slim margins but that was fine. if I didn't have to craft at all until level cap then I'd just be a visitor with a gun. What would I even be doing here? 

So, TL;DR: you're taking away the need to craft instead of solving the problem by letting crafters craft. There's a significant LACK OF CRAFTING HAPPENING WITH THE SO-CALLED CRAFTER CLASS. Let them CRAFT. Modify the drops slightly, add 2-3 recipes in the crafting chain. Problem solved. No need for some stupid pserver hack like infinite free mediocre ammo. People should satisfy their lack of ammo by... crafting ammo. In CRATES. 999 CRATES. FROM LOOT. Holy crap, what an idea. Imagine SOLVING YOUR RESOURCE PROBLEMS THROUGH THE MIRACLE OF SCIENCE.

[Vile]

1 hour ago, Sneaux said:

Making the basic, already free ammo able to be used infinitely and by default when no other ammo is equipped doesn't harm Dealers' profitability in any way, shape, or form. Because they can already craft better quality ammo to sell and the basic ammo is already free.

^ This.

[Bobbity]

I've got a question for you players who seemingly are solely focused on zulie: "Do you craft before level 40? What about before level 70?" The question is on-topic.

[Sneaux]

1 hour ago, Bobbity said:

Sorry if it came off like a rant. It feels like you aren't a dealer because you don't seem to think like one. It's not about the money per se, it's the entire Dealer experience.  In fact, it's the entire ROSE experience.

  Reveal hidden contents

Imagine Dealers don't need to craft until lvl 250. No need for reinf, no hardened, no enchanted or endowed, just pew pew with launcher. Is that class still a Dealer? You're doing exactly that by progressively removing the scarcity economy that is at the heart of the dealer. We do all that because we're driven. That entire cycle of 'kill, loot, disassemble, craft, sell, kill, loot' isn't just because we like it but because that's what we do. When I hunt and loot it's because I'm satisfying a need. You're coming with the mentality that needs, deprivation and scarcity are bad and wrong. That's a pserver mentality. Pserver devs don't give a damn; if the paying customer wants his Faith costumes with +10000 ATK and ASPD then that's what he'll get.  Want wings with +3000 MS? Sure.

We exist in an economy of (artificial) scarcity: of skill points, toughness, dps, money, inventory and storage space. Even connections. it's artificial but it's REAL.  If you have this fake ammo thing, dealers won't bother crafting higher dps ammo because it doesn't make fiscal sense to prioritize ammo crafting. It'd be a waste of skill points. The only people who'd craft better ammo are already settled, levelcapped, vending in Junon, prepping for AA and maybe some demanding dg like SC. 

I used to craft backseats and reinf for a living. Most of my trade was by word of mouth since I sold significantly under market price. Of course, that meant slim margins but that was fine. if I didn't have to craft at all until level cap then I'd just be a visitor with a gun. What would I even be doing here? 

So, TL;DR: you're taking away the need to craft instead of solving the problem by letting crafters craft. There's a significant LACK OF CRAFTING HAPPENING WITH THE SO-CALLED CRAFTER CLASS. Let them CRAFT. Modify the drops slightly, add 2-3 recipes in the crafting chain. Problem solved. No need for some stupid pserver hack like infinite free mediocre ammo. People should satisfy their lack of ammo by... crafting ammo. In CRATES. 999 CRATES. FROM LOOT. Holy crap, what an idea. Imagine SOLVING YOUR RESOURCE PROBLEMS THROUGH THE MIRACLE OF SCIENCE.

Like, I understand what you're saying. But you're not understanding that the argument doesn't apply because Dealers already don't have to craft basic ammo. It's free from an NPC. Why would I ever craft the basic ammo as a Dealer? You're not depriving Dealers from crafting or making crafting pointless by letting people have easier access to an already free, junky ammo. And as a Bourg and Scout player, yes I would buy better ammo from a Dealer. No I wouldn't buy a basic ammo crate from a Dealer because it's already free. I want the best AP I can afford, so of course I'm going to utilize Dealer crafted ammo crates for ammo above the basic 0 zulie ammo.

While we're at it, yeah I think moving ammo to the Consumable tab is a great idea and makes more sense than the Materials tab.

[LeMiki]

I don't think there needs to be some complicated solution for this. Just a separate bag/tab for ammo will do wonders. Maybe removing the weight too.

[Bobbity]

I'm glad you asked why anyone would ever craft basic ammo as a Dealer. There's a very obvious reason that you're not seeing because like someone else here you sound like you play in a very zulie-oriented way.

Let's say you're in Goblin Caves for some reason, killing goblins (and pongs and ghosts too, I suppose.) You're here to grind, loot and level. You've got space for loot and you've got some ammo. And the loot dropped can somehow be used to craft more ammo. Do you go back to town for more ammo when you're out or do you make more ammo? Now imagine being able to make ammo whenever you want. Now imagine you're in a party and they need ammo. The ability to make ammo isn't just for added dps or to sell to PvP addicts. It's an emergency skill for when you need bullets or shells, for when your xbow knight or scout needs arrows. It's to keep things going - much like a cleric's flames keep us going. It's also for people WHO DON'T GO TO TOWN. They live off of their loot, and I am offended that you people are determined to exclude this entire category of players because all you think about is zulie instead of an inclusive gameplaying experience. You've been doing this for years. If someone in your party has a problem, if you lack something, a crafter should be able to sort you out, even if it's something as simple as 'we need to keep the grind going'. But instead, you want to sidestep this. 'Run out of ammo? But this is a game, we can't have finite ammo. Let's give everyone infinite ammo.' Why are you forcing a meta? Why can't crafters do for themselves instead of having to run to NPCs for everything? People want to craft because they actually want to craft BECAUSE THAT'S WHY THEY PICKED DEALER. If you just want to hit from range, hawker is lovely for this; you can become a scout and kite for years. There's already so little crafting going on earlygame and you want to make the situation worse.

 

31 minutes ago, LeMiki said:

I don't think there needs to be some complicated solution for this. Just a separate bag/tab for ammo will do wonders. Maybe removing the weight too.

Oh, now we're removing the weight too?  If we remove the weight, we might as well do whatever we want. Up the damage, add an on-hit stun, slow and blind, aoe on auto-attack... just add some ideas here since it's a free-for-all now. It'll make the mobile game a lot easier, no need to skill anything.

 

EDIT: This has devolved into a rant, clearly. I want to point out that this is a bone of contention for me for the past 8 years or so because the Dealer class needs to be sorted out in creative and effective ways but all that's given so far are sops. There are obvious remedies that don't involve weird pserver-ish hacks and actually improve gameplay at both earlygame and lategame (more interesting, tactical etc.) but all I see is stuff like 'infinite ammo, 0 weight ammo' and the like. I'll discuss it via DMs instead of cluttering up this particular thread with my aggro.

Aside, there's actually no reason there can't be a separate ammo tab. Right now, it feels like a cop-out but it might be the best solution eventually.

 

EDIT the 2nd: What are you guys gonna do when we end up on planets with no NPC shops? No friendly NPCs? Teleticket back to Junon? We don't have those anymore, AFAIK.

Edited January 5, 2023 by Bobbity
Fell asleep while typing

[Sneaux]

But, like...Dealers could and 100% would still be able to craft more ammo in the field. If your Scout runs out of Bone Arrows congratulations the Artisan in your group can craft more on the spot still. But wait, what if your Artisan doesn't have the materials to craft you more ammo for some reason? Oh right. This suggestion takes effect and you can use crappy, already free base ammo instead until everyone's ready to finish their grind session instead of having to stop and go back for materials or more ammo. This isn't a suggestion for changing Ammo materials to something easier to find or things more commonly dropped. That's a good idea, make a new post for it if you feel this passionately about ammo crafting.

Also, people who never go back to town for more food, ammo, etc and live off of their loot can still do that. It literally wouldn't change their preferred, niche playstyle unless they wanted it to change it. They can still play how they want to.

[Vile]

In typical fashion, a simple, easy QoL change topic is now a over-complicated embarrassing mess because someone got jealous of a good idea and thinks doing it "different" [their idea] is better by virtue of it being their idea.

Just make Bean Bullets for guns, Cannon shell for Launcher and Wooden Arrow for Bow/Bowgun default "auto attack". Special arrows as they are now. Add a quiver/ammo pack for ammo specific storage expansion. AND LEAVE IT BE. Good god. Complexity for complexity sake is the reverse opposite of optimization.
 

K.I.S.S.

[Aquil]

On 1/5/2023 at 9:44 PM, Bobbity said:

It's an emergency skill for when you need bullets or shells, for when your xbow knight or scout needs arrows. It's to keep things going - much like a cleric's flames keep us going. It's also for people WHO DON'T GO TO TOWN. They live off of their loot, and I am offended that you people are determined to exclude this entire category of players because all you think about is zulie instead of an inclusive gameplaying experience. You've been doing this for years. If someone in your party has a problem, if you lack something, a crafter should be able to sort you out, even if it's something as simple as 'we need to keep the grind going'. But instead, you want to sidestep this. 'Run out of ammo? But this is a game, we can't have finite ammo. Let's give everyone infinite ammo.' Why are you forcing a meta? Why can't crafters do for themselves instead of having to run to NPCs for everything? People want to craft because they actually want to craft BECAUSE THAT'S WHY THEY PICKED DEALER. If you just want to hit from range, hawker is lovely for this; you can become a scout and kite for years. There's already so little crafting going on earlygame and you want to make the situation worse.

Bro, no offence, but what are u smoking? Did someone EVER asked a dealer to craft him a basic bullet/arrow/cannon and PAID for that? I play this game for like 15-17 years and never ever as i remember had situation like this... Anyway I like how u are such a hypocrite calling others "all about zulie guys" while u are totally all about zulie.

Btw this topic is not about "Ree my DEALER is so weak i need to craft for living", but about Arrows/bullets/cannons, so please if u don't mind, stop using it for ur bitter lamentations about dealers crafts

[Bobbity]

@AquilYou clearly look down on crafting if you think it's something for the weak. I see it as an amazing ability to solve almost every problem. But I guess you didn't read with a rational or open mind, or you don't see it from my perspective. Either way, thanks for the useful suggestion.

Basic ammo isn't for zulie. They're to do exactly what your suggestion proposes but in a more organic way. Real ammo instead of server-faked ammo.

 

@OwlchemistVileI don't need to discuss the positives of the proposal, they're clear. The idea OP proposes is a very good one if we 

- had no better natural alternatives that covered existing gaps

- the dealer class had been balanced and fixed for years and needed no review

-this was a pserver with a dev that didn't care.

I apologize for going a bit 'extra' there. That said, your snideness and ad hominem attacks are better left for DMs. Yes, the target was clear. I won't insult you or another person on this forum; don't insult me. I've seen plenty of ideas on this forum that were at least as good as mine, usually much better - I've never had a problem with those. I see few things simpler than letting crafters craft. Please have a moderator remind you of the terms of use for this site.

 

@Sneaux

If this proposal is implemented, you will definitely have parties lasting longer in the field. They will default to the trash server-provided bullets until they have proper ammo again and there will be no gaps, no problems. People will occupy their grinding spots until they get sick of it and make plans to be there even longer than that. That's a problem in and of itself but there are positives, of course. Here's what I'm thinking, though: this proposal aside, chances are, if you've run out of even emergency supplies then your party SHOULD retire. People have wives and lives, kids and work. Overwhelmingly, that's the server's current community. I refuse to believe that an artisan can't carry enough twigs and source enough leg bones for an entire night's worth of grinding. In other words, there's nothing wrong with a party not grinding for 3 weeks without rest. What you propose is an artificial plaster for a wound that doesn't exist.

 

Edited January 7, 2023 by Bobbity
Left out some words again, sigh.

[LoreChief]

I don't think theres an importance to having consumed ammo tbh.  I play an artisan and bow hawker, and it doesn't add anything to the immersion or enjoyment of the game. 

1. If you can hold hours worth of ammo, it never *feels* like anything special. 
2. If you need to refill it very often, it feels like garbage.
3. It takes up too much inventory space, and we're already very limited on material inventory space.
4. It doesn't even serve as a gold sink because of how cheap it is.

It would be one thing if it were a game like Tree of Savior where a Fletcher crafts specialized ammo for usage with different skills.  It would be another thing if it were a game like RO where you have special arrow types you use for very niche situations (even then carrying different types of ammo is still a restriction on our already limited space...).

I would prefer to see something like...

1. Ammo is now an off-hand equipment
2. You craft a singlular ammo to serve as an equipment, and you can 'refine' that ammo as well.
3. Crafting an offhand ammo is expensive (other than the basic you can just buy)
4. Crafting an offhand ammo requires very special mats
5. Refining them is for the most part optional, as there's very little difference between +0 and +10 ammo (Maybe like a 20% increase?)

Examples:
-Shrapnel Bullet (Gun Ammo):  Your auto-attacks now do 5m AoE damage but deal 50% less overall damage.