enhancements The Biggest Overhaul I've Ever Suggested

[Vile]

So I've been trying to wrap my head around the development and future of ROSE, specifically around gearing and endgame for the last few weeks.
I've been taking in opinions, comparing them to my own, and trying to find a solution that contains the least amount of concessions but the best compromise so everyone wins.
So far, this is what I've formulated theoretically.

Step 1: Already been done to an extent, but remove the Honor & Valor gear from the Honor & Valor shops. [This doesn't mean don't bring back the SHOPS with the materials etc in them, those are crucial in some regards, and are the foundation and main interaction of Game Arena and it's reward structure at present, along with a myriad of other gameplay].
Step 2: Bring back Factions. [I'll touch on the 5th and potentially 6th never implemented factions later in another thread or separate part of this post]
Step 3: Give each faction a shop/vendor.
Step 4: Remove all armor and weapon drops from Dungeons.
Step 5: Remove all PvM + PvP Offense + Resistance from gear.
Step 6: Take all Honor Sets, Valor Sets, Exalted Sets and place them into the Union Reward shop, contained in boxes <Coffers> that yield single pieces you select at the time of purchase. [This is so that when created, they generate sub-stats, since re-rollers are also now gone]
Step 7: Edit the Disassembly table of all these armor sets, to yield 34% of the purchase price in Union Points.
Step 8: Add daily quests to Factions, which you select a list of quests from a bigger pool, to do for Union Point rewards. [You can choose PvP or PvM tasks, or even mix them if you want]
Step 9: Clan Fields <This requires it own post, I'll post a link here later>
Step 10: Add some type of badge, or seal or item from Dungeons that can either be exchanged for Union Points, or Directly reward Union Points upon completion of a Dungeon, Arena, or Union War.

What does all this accomplish:
You've removed the barrier between PvP and PvM gear [some people have been wanting this to happen in some regards].
You've removed incentive/requirement for people to be forced into doing the types of content they don't want to: removing an irritating situation.
You've expanded the pool of options for gearing choices and builds
You've reintroduced and immediately integrated Factions into the core loop of the game and endgame activities.
You've introduced a way to quickly get a base set, then farm for BiS <best in slot> gears via manifested sub-stats on gear coffers.
and You've given a daily log-in incentive that will feel rewarding for anyone casual to hard core as the daily tasks should be fairly fast and simple, whilst there remains benefits to repeatable content runs.

There are still many questions regarding things like, Runes, Elements, PAT's, Story, Dungeons etc and more. but from a foundational point, I think this offers potential to be bet best, most stable middle ground possible for everyone to enjoy. I also posted it in the public view, because I would like to encourage as MANY people as possible to consider this, and hopefully not allow personal sentiments or agendas/interests to prevent us from all hammering out /something/ that works. That something I'm hoping is this idea.

Cheers:
Vile

[Vexoi]

As much as I liked having different builds for PvM and PvP, I think this is not only a good idea and a good compromise but also a good starting point. Plus, it still allows making multiple builds without having them PvM or PvP. I also feel like it might be easier to balance everything out that way.

I'm curious to see what you have to say about the 5th and 6th (there was a 6th one too?) factions. I missed factions so bringing them back would be a wonderful feeling of nostalgia. I'm also looking forward to what you have to say about clan fields.

53 minutes ago, OwlchemistVile said:

Step 3: Give each faction a shop/vendor.

Would they all sell the same items? Or would we have the typical Chiv, Glor, Lum, Prec sets for each of them and some other items would remain the same? (A bit like what it was before) Also, would that mean that brave & courage armor, for example, would be gone? If 2 extra factions were to be added, the brave and courage sets could potentially be added to those 2? That'd be fun!

56 minutes ago, OwlchemistVile said:

Step 4: Remove all armor and weapon drops from Dungeons.

Would dungeons only give faction points? I feel like the armor and weapons from dungeons were the biggest reason to do them. On that same note, if you leave a faction and join another, I would prefer it to be the same currency but I feel like it would make more sense if it wasn't... Speaking of currencies, Honor and valor would probably no longer be a thing? I understand you don't have the answer to everything but I'm just trying to catch your vision.

1 hour ago, OwlchemistVile said:

You've removed incentive/requirement for people to be forced into doing the types of content they don't want to: removing an irritating situation.

I really love this, this gives you the option to do whatever you feel like, depending on your mood, and still get to gather points/currency to get good gear.

[Kid]

good addition to what we already have but i dont think removing drops from instance is a good idea. union gear should be and extra choice and not everyone should be forced to join one just to get endgame gear.

[Rebus]

I usually enjoy your takes and ideas, but I strongly have to disagree with this one. Streamlining equipment into a linear progression from one place is killing a lot of the original mmorpg spirit out of this game. I really hate the quest reward equipment sets and current Honor sets for the same reason.

Your suggestion makes gearing a (mandatory) time investment, but no more than that. How boring is it to know, that whatever upgrade I want I just go and farm Union Points and then buy the slightly better version of what I already have.

 

Equipment should come frome diverse sources and there should not be a clear "these 4 pieces together are clearly BiS" enforced by strong set boni or a disproportionate amount of stats (like the current Honor sets). I want to explore and look around and then have so many (potential) options from different places, that it's not easy to see, what would be "best" and most practical to chase. There needs to be an element of exploration and mixing and matching, looking for items to complement the best you've got, even at the higher levels.

 

There is wealth of interesting stats available on only few current endgame items. Use those to create new prefixes for a diversify in equipment at all levels. Rather than making the "standard" items even more redundant, I'd love to see them expanded upon.

3 hours ago, OwlchemistVile said:

Step 5: Remove all PvM + PvP Offense + Resistance from gear.

I whole-heartedly agree with this point. Flat damage modifiers are the most boring stats and the naming breaks immersion. There are stats uniquely suited for PvP equipment like sleep, stun, mute and critical resistance, which could be complemented further by a criticial damage resistance.

 

If this game becomes a Union Point treadmill, where all you do during the endgame to better your equipment is turn in another batch of points for another 10% of power I'm really not interested in playing anymore. Gearing should not be this uninspired.

[Winniethenoob]

1 hour ago, Rebus said:

I usually enjoy your takes and ideas, but I strongly have to disagree with this one. Streamlining equipment into a linear progression from one place is killing a lot of the original mmorpg spirit out of this game. I really hate the quest reward equipment sets and current Honor sets for the same reason.

Your suggestion makes gearing a (mandatory) time investment, but no more than that. How boring is it to know, that whatever upgrade I want I just go and farm Union Points and then buy the slightly better version of what I already have.

 

Equipment should come frome diverse sources and there should not be a clear "these 4 pieces together are clearly BiS" enforced by strong set boni or a disproportionate amount of stats (like the current Honor sets). I want to explore and look around and then have so many (potential) options from different places, that it's not easy to see, what would be "best" and most practical to chase. There needs to be an element of exploration and mixing and matching, looking for items to complement the best you've got, even at the higher levels.

 

There is wealth of interesting stats available on only few current endgame items. Use those to create new prefixes for a diversify in equipment at all levels. Rather than making the "standard" items even more redundant, I'd love to see them expanded upon.

I whole-heartedly agree with this point. Flat damage modifiers are the most boring stats and the naming breaks immersion. There are stats uniquely suited for PvP equipment like sleep, stun, mute and critical resistance, which could be complemented further by a criticial damage resistance.

 

If this game becomes a Union Point treadmill, where all you do during the endgame to better your equipment is turn in another batch of points for another 10% of power I'm really not interested in playing anymore. Gearing should not be this uninspired.

I dont have enough knowledge to go in depth on this, but isnt this exactly where we are heading? level 100 is cap at first planet.. so anything after the first planet basically becomes a grind for different gear? be it through Union points or grinding x mob 10000 times?

[Rebus]

12 minutes ago, Winniethenoob said:

I dont have enough knowledge to go in depth on this, but isnt this exactly where we are heading? level 100 is cap at first planet.. so anything after the first planet basically becomes a grind for different gear? be it through Union points or grinding x mob 10000 times?

Yes and no. Neither his original post nor my response was not about whether the game play loop should be about equipment acquisition (which it would also be with a new level cap). The question is how that equipment acquisition would work. And he prefers there to be one go-to place with a currency for all your equipment needs and I oppose that notion (simplifying massively here, refer to the original posts).

[Vile]

I don't understand how doing Dungeon, Arenas, King Hunting/Hunt Charges, Crafting, and or fetch quests to get currency to buy gear isn't diverse enough. just because you exchange the currency at a central point, doesn't mean you're only being rewarded at that point. You're just giving yourself more control over what you get [despite them being in RNG sub-stat coffers that you will grind literal years for BiS sub-stats but that was another concession I made, that I don't like].

Quite literally, just so we're clear, I thought the way it was before was perfectly fine, and only needed some balance and a bit more set diversity. This entire this is a response to the community wanting to change something in my opinion that wasn't broke.

[Rebus]

What this system essentially does, is make it so you passively get stronger the more you play. Realistically, there will be a meta of ideal stats/items, so it's not like the majority of players will have a great time pondering the choices. A system like that makes it such that gearing is not really a concern or consideration. The longer you play, the more superior you are compared to newbies and that's all it boils down to for the majority.

 

At least to me, a core part of RPGs is, that not all items are easily available. You find things and make the best out of what you have. That doesn't mean, that there can't be supplementary items from a vendor. But ideally the purpose of those would be to help make the rest work, not to be the core of your set.

 

I understand, that people are used to how it was and that comes with a level of comfort. But for the sake of this game being successful again, things like this need to be considered on their merits, rather than comfort. It's well possible that I'm wrong on this, but I feel strongly enough about it, that I feel I need to voice dissent.

 

[Vile]

That's fine, that's why it's posted. I will make a small correction though, NA's gearing was not deterministic, and absolutely not easily obtainable. Many elements were RNG, or a very very long grind. A lot of people voicing concerns about shops all being removed, and all gear being random drops and too samey to tell what you should be using, are just sick and tired of not having any achievable goals or clear direction to go, myself included.

[Whoop]

3 hours ago, Rebus said:

What this system essentially does, is make it so you passively get stronger the more you play. Realistically, there will be a meta of ideal stats/items, so it's not like the majority of players will have a great time pondering the choices. A system like that makes it such that gearing is not really a concern or consideration. The longer you play, the more superior you are compared to newbies and that's all it boils down to for the majority.

 

At least to me, a core part of RPGs is, that not all items are easily available. You find things and make the best out of what you have. That doesn't mean, that there can't be supplementary items from a vendor. But ideally the purpose of those would be to help make the rest work, not to be the core of your set.

 

I understand, that people are used to how it was and that comes with a level of comfort. But for the sake of this game being successful again, things like this need to be considered on their merits, rather than comfort. It's well possible that I'm wrong on this, but I feel strongly enough about it, that I feel I need to voice dissent.

 

Nothing is going to stop people to farm for the best gear instead of going with what you find and have. So I think in your scenario, it still essentially leads to passively getting stronger the more you play. What I do agree on here is that the endgame gear shouldn't come from only just the union shops, but should be obtainable through different routes in the game. 

3 hours ago, OwlchemistVile said:

I don't understand how doing Dungeon, Arenas, King Hunting/Hunt Charges, Crafting, and or fetch quests to get currency to buy gear isn't diverse enough. just because you exchange the currency at a central point, doesn't mean you're only being rewarded at that point. You're just giving yourself more control over what you get [despite them being in RNG sub-stat coffers that you will grind literal years for BiS sub-stats but that was another concession I made, that I don't like].

Quite literally, just so we're clear, I thought the way it was before was perfectly fine, and only needed some balance and a bit more set diversity. This entire this is a response to the community wanting to change something in my opinion that wasn't broke.

I feel like the issue isn't the lack of options to gather currency but rather 1 of these being more efficient than the others. Players will just end up spamming this option without ever touching the rest. 

The way the king set was gathered was very interesting, of course the problem with the set itself was that it took up costume slots. 

[Rebus]

3 hours ago, Whoop said:

Nothing is going to stop people to farm for the best gear instead of going with what you find and have.

Absolutely, but it depends on how "farmable" or readily available all items are. E.g. in games with big party PvM content (like WoW raiding) people would also chase the best items, but are limited to one chance to drop per boss per week (since you could only kill them once every week). On top of that, the absence of personal loot in earlier iterations made it, such that that loot (of ~3-4 drops per boss) had to be distributed between around 25 people. The chance of you having the BiS set even over 2-3 months were pretty slim, though you'd likely have good, but not perfect items for every slot and had to mix and match to make the current stat distribution work.

Not saying, that this is exactly how it has to be done in ROSE, but there are organic and proven ways to limit loot acquisition.

3 hours ago, Whoop said:

So I think in your scenario, it still essentially leads to passively getting stronger the more you play.

If you do specific content to get specific items, it's not passive. You are actively going out of your way to chase something, rather than just passively acquiring currency with whatever you do.

3 hours ago, Whoop said:

What I do agree on here is that the endgame gear shouldn't come from only just the union shops, but should be obtainable through different routes in the game.

Ideally, putting together a set of vendor items would never be BiS, though passable. And only by combinding items from different sources (without mixing PvP and PvM), you'd get to an ideal setup. E.g. from a dungeons, crafting, quests, vendor, random drops etc.

Vendor items shouldn't be inferior in their stat amount, but e.g. less attractive for usage in every slots due to the stats they provide.

[Vile]

So far the biggest issue I see is

Yes: Log in. Do content. Get Reward.
No: Log in. Do content. Get Currency. Buy reward you want.

Because, .... I'm actually not sure what the problem is with the second one tbh. I also don't understand what about this system is passive, while the other one is active, considering you'd be doing the same thing [And non of this removed open-world drops, or uniques, or crafted jewelry, or crafted armor, or crafted weapons].

[Vile]

Based on what was mentioned today on Stream after having watched it, I'm going to close this thread. From the sound of it, purchasing end-game gear from vendors is something the DEV's are looking to get away from I think. If that's the case, then this entire idea isn't viable.