Appearance and quality

[Buffiies]

Hello!

This topic is a personal opinion and it will be different for all of us. Lately, the appearance and quality of costumes, weapon skin, and in-game objects have been lacking in appearance and quality (in my opinion). As in;  low quality (sharp edges, not looking as sharp as the rest of the game) and not fitting the Rose Online theme (It looks like it has been meant for another game). Tho as written, this sort of discussion can be difficult to discuss because for you it can be great but according to me it's bad. That is why it is important to discuss this and respect each other's views on this. Please vote in the poll and make a comment on what you think!

I understand, that Rednim is a tiny team. But that doesn't mean we should pump out just anything. Rather use the Item Malls costumes that we all know and remember that are good quality. Because some costumes/etc. look like it is from a private server. 

Thank you. This is not meant to be hateful towards anyone, just a discussion to make the game we love, a better place. 

Edited September 3, 2023 by Buffiies

[Heatfist]

Aren’t most of the low quality looking items from previous development? It would be helpful to actually post some examples for comparison.

Rednim have only added very few of their own art assets into the game so far…

“On a serious note, yes we've been working on our art pipeline which has been slow but we've made a lot of progress in the past few months. This enabled us to add some new custom content to the game and our first release was the dark oblivion set. The reason it was the first added to the game is because it's the first "complete" set the artists have completed. It takes a lot of time to go from concept -> game with many iterations, tweaks and adjustments. This was a pet project from the artist who created it and he wanted the freedom and creativity to create his vision. While the set is very cool we decided to put it on the item mall since the design more appropriate as a costume than a regular ROSE item. We do have several other art projects in development that will be part of the core game when they are complete and ready to be added. Of course it takes longer and more work to add in game content since you can't just plop it in an NPC shop, it needs to fit thematically and have a reason to exist in the game. 
The Dark Oblivion set is the first weapon set we've created and published, all the other item mall items are existing items from the old item mall that we are rotating . Rest assured we are not just sitting here pumping and dumping costumes while ignoring the game” - Lazy Penguin (on Discord)

The Dark Oblivion Weapons look great in quality in comparison to the older things. They actually look a bit too good for the game. 

They recently did the Clan vs Clan uniforms for Godly Clan for winning the Summer tournament. As well as some temporary in game Banners in the same colour and design as the uniform (as requested by the Clan).

They also released their first in game loot as the new lvl 200 Accessories. Which art wise look a bit different from old designs but unique in their own way to still fit with the games overall look. 

I believe some of the lower quality stuff is also receiving some retouching at some point.

Edited September 4, 2023 by Heatfist

[HoneyBuns]

The only actual new items we've added are the level 200 accessories and the Dark Oblivion costume weapons.  Everything else is from NA.

[Buffiies]

14 hours ago, HoneyBuns said:

The only actual new items we've added are the level 200 accessories and the Dark Oblivion costume weapons.  Everything else is from NA.

I might been unclear in my first message. What I mean is the new costumes that were also added at the end of NA. I know Rednim isn't responsible for those, but they still have a choice to either use them or not.

On 9/4/2023 at 8:14 AM, Heatfist said:

Aren’t most of the low quality looking items from previous development? It would be helpful to actually post some examples for comparison.

Rednim have only added very few of their own art assets into the game so far…

“On a serious note, yes we've been working on our art pipeline which has been slow but we've made a lot of progress in the past few months. This enabled us to add some new custom content to the game and our first release was the dark oblivion set. The reason it was the first added to the game is because it's the first "complete" set the artists have completed. It takes a lot of time to go from concept -> game with many iterations, tweaks and adjustments. This was a pet project from the artist who created it and he wanted the freedom and creativity to create his vision. While the set is very cool we decided to put it on the item mall since the design more appropriate as a costume than a regular ROSE item. We do have several other art projects in development that will be part of the core game when they are complete and ready to be added. Of course it takes longer and more work to add in game content since you can't just plop it in an NPC shop, it needs to fit thematically and have a reason to exist in the game. 
The Dark Oblivion set is the first weapon set we've created and published, all the other item mall items are existing items from the old item mall that we are rotating . Rest assured we are not just sitting here pumping and dumping costumes while ignoring the game” - Lazy Penguin (on Discord)

The Dark Oblivion Weapons look great in quality in comparison to the older things. They actually look a bit too good for the game. 

They recently did the Clan vs Clan uniforms for Godly Clan for winning the Summer tournament. As well as some temporary in game Banners in the same colour and design as the uniform (as requested by the Clan).

They also released their first in game loot as the new lvl 200 Accessories. Which art wise look a bit different from old designs but unique in their own way to still fit with the games overall look. 

I believe some of the lower quality stuff is also receiving some retouching at some point.

The Dark Oblivion set is good-looking! Don't get me wrong, it might not suit my characters 'theme'( I mostly dress my chars cutely haha). I do find it good-looking!

Example 1

Spoiler

This does not even look like ''Rose Online'' and I have never seen it before, must be an oldie one but the feeling it gives is p-server.

Example 2

Spoiler

This was a new costume that came in Patch Notes v610 on June 15, 2016. The dress and the female shoes look like it been sprayed on her and the quality looks like it's unfocused. It kind of gives ''Kate Perry from her Super Bowl Halftime show back in 2015''-feeling (Spoiler).

Spoiler

The texture on the wings seems to have some sort of effect on them. But the lack of details makes it difficult to even understand what they are trying to look like. I like exploring different materials and giving them different effects but when it comes to the point where you do not even understand what it is, it's difficult to like it. Tho it has thickness which not all costumes have, even the Golden era costumes have no thickness (Hopefully in the future).

The male body is the only thing I like but it seems like there is some sort of error on the end of his shawl (is shawl even the correct name for the red thing across his upper body?). Is it supposed to look like a flame but the background hasn't been removed?

Example 3

Spoiler

The skull/wings look un-focused and the overall looks like it's retro comic book art.

Example 4

The Clan vs Clan tournament; the sign in Junon congratulating (btw, congrats Godly) Godly looks bad, not the message it gives out but the sign itself looks... p-server and odd.

Spoiler

I hope this clears a little bit from what I have been noticing about in-game. I understand this won't be categorized as ''Must be done ASAP but it is my own thoughts from what I have seen in-game. 

Edited September 5, 2023 by Buffiies

[HoneyBuns]

If we didn't use the existing costumes from the many, many design contests we had at NA, this Item Mall would be completely empty. Since the revenue that keeps the server running is only obtained thru purchases, it seems kind of counter-productive to me.

I can appreciate the fact that not everything looks fantastic and that is something the art team will be addressing and tweaking when possible as time goes on.

[Buffiies]

16 hours ago, HoneyBuns said:

If we didn't use the existing costumes from the many, many design contests we had at NA, this Item Mall would be completely empty. Since the revenue that keeps the server running is only obtained thru purchases, it seems kind of counter-productive to me.

I can appreciate the fact that not everything looks fantastic and that is something the art team will be addressing and tweaking when possible as time goes on.

That is some sort of explanation and gives an understanding. It is not the ideas from the costume contests that are wrong, it is the quality and appearance of the actual costume, such as the ''sprayed-on'' feeling, the low quality in some textures, and so on.

I know, by now Item Mall is the only thing that is producing revenue for the server which is literally its heat-beat. Would be fun with some sort of Premium feature, but that's a different story and a different topic. It is a complicated topic to talk about, Should we mass produce new content that is 'meh' to create more revenue or produce less content that is 'Wow' but perhaps create less revenue? Perhaps as you said, they are already there and if they weren't there, it would been a bigger problem.

[Sneaux]

What is it about the CvC Banner that feels particularly "p-server and odd" to you?

As far as the costumes go, they were from WarpPortal but I wholeheartedly agree that their quality is lacking. Some of the normal gear quality is lacking too. Addressing poor quality textures and models is on my list of things to tackle. Of course, going through each equippable item in the game and reviewing for needed edits and then completing those edits is going to be a long process but it's something I think is very important to do for the game's art style and presentation.

[Buffiies]

15 hours ago, Sneaux said:

What is it about the CvC Banner that feels particularly "p-server and odd" to you?

As far as the costumes go, they were from WarpPortal but I wholeheartedly agree that their quality is lacking. Some of the normal gear quality is lacking too. Addressing poor quality textures and models is on my list of things to tackle. Of course, going through each equippable item in the game and reviewing for needed edits and then completing those edits is going to be a long process but it's something I think is very important to do for the game's art style and presentation.

With its structure. Rose has a lot of massive buildings and structures. Everything is too big for the actual character model (kind of funny when you think about it, can't even reach up to the table in some places) and everything is robustly built. This sign has two sticks that are so tiny and slim and in perfect form, that it makes an odd feeling and it sticks out. 

Thank you for the comment, I understand it's a job that takes time, and it is not easy. Even if you think ''How hard can it be to make so the hair doesn't stick out from the hats?''. The idea is easy but the actual coding/fixing takes time. If you want a second opinion on something, am glad to take a look at them, It would be an honor to work on the game a bit like I did before. One of my favorite things in Rose is costumes and I just love the nature and environment of Rose.

[Sneaux]

6 hours ago, Buffiies said:

With its structure. Rose has a lot of massive buildings and structures. Everything is too big for the actual character model (kind of funny when you think about it, can't even reach up to the table in some places) and everything is robustly built. This sign has two sticks that are so tiny and slim and in perfect form, that it makes an odd feeling and it sticks out. 

Thank you for the comment, I understand it's a job that takes time, and it is not easy. Even if you think ''How hard can it be to make so the hair doesn't stick out from the hats?''. The idea is easy but the actual coding/fixing takes time. If you want a second opinion on something, am glad to take a look at them, It would be an honor to work on the game a bit like I did before. One of my favorite things in Rose is costumes and I just love the nature and environment of Rose.

Those new hair styles are a pain in the butt! Haha. We have a very talented volunteer artist who worked on some new hair styles a while back and I have those prepared for the game. I'm not sure when or how they'll be implemented. And I've asked that same volunteer to work on fixing up the existing low quality hairs. Again, not sure when that will be done as their time is restricted and they work on a volunteer basis. But I trust them with the hair improvements, they'll do a great job with that.

After you brought up the CvC banner, I looked at it again and I definitely could have built the model up a bit more. I think I'll modify it in the future to have some feet or a foundation on each pole and maybe beef up the poles a little as well. I'm not above trying to blend the object in more. Another area that it may feel out of place is that it's placed in the map as a fake NPC basically, and that means it doesn't have lightmap baked onto it or onto the terrain from it so it can look out of place for that reason too.

Thankfully this time around, the CvC banner is a temporary decoration added to Junon Polis to celebrate the winning clan and won't be around forever haha. Hopefully we can make some model improvements between now and next CvC.

[Buffiies]

17 hours ago, Sneaux said:

Those new hair styles are a pain in the butt! Haha. We have a very talented volunteer artist who worked on some new hair styles a while back and I have those prepared for the game. I'm not sure when or how they'll be implemented. And I've asked that same volunteer to work on fixing up the existing low quality hairs. Again, not sure when that will be done as their time is restricted and they work on a volunteer basis. But I trust them with the hair improvements, they'll do a great job with that.

After you brought up the CvC banner, I looked at it again and I definitely could have built the model up a bit more. I think I'll modify it in the future to have some feet or a foundation on each pole and maybe beef up the poles a little as well. I'm not above trying to blend the object in more. Another area that it may feel out of place is that it's placed in the map as a fake NPC basically, and that means it doesn't have lightmap baked onto it or onto the terrain from it so it can look out of place for that reason too.

Thankfully this time around, the CvC banner is a temporary decoration added to Junon Polis to celebrate the winning clan and won't be around forever haha. Hopefully we can make some model improvements between now and next CvC.

Rose Online has a such lovely community that takes time to fix an old thing like that. Love it!

You could also make the CvC banner attached between two towers, hanging by a 'string' and by that, you don't need to make the poles. However, it might need some animation to flutter and that might take a longer time (?). Am no programmer, just a person with opinions. (Lol, like we need more of that).

The temporary banner is doing its job, let us celebrate Godly's win, and let's look forward to the next CvC! It was fun! Perhaps some sort of PVM tournament? Fastest dungeon run?!