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Why not make Rose 2?


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It been over 20 years with Rose online and I love the game, however since people are really interesting and developers are ready I think there should be a better version in term of visuals and capabilities of the engine and bring real engine live.

 

While maintaining all  aspects of the core game, it will allow the developers to bring more innovation to the game and create new concepts.

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It's unfortunately just not a viable route, because Rednim Games is not a multi-million dollar established game studio. It's a small scale passion project bringing back a dead game. And after weighing the options, it made the most sense to stick with the original codebase and build on that.

The game will get improvements incrementally and maybe one day that will include an engine upgrade.

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3 hours ago, Jova1106 said:

Because, people still like rose 1.

Sure, but if enough people still liked it, then the game wouldn’t have shut down in multiple regions. I agree with OP. 

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3 hours ago, Rebus said:

It's unfortunately just not a viable route, because Rednim Games is not a multi-million dollar established game studio. It's a small scale passion project bringing back a dead game. And after weighing the options, it made the most sense to stick with the original codebase and build on that.

The game will get improvements incrementally and maybe one day that will include an engine upgrade.

How did a small studio, who doesn't even have enough funding to hire real developers (their "kickstarter" to hire a real lead developer) get "exclusive rights" to make a new version of Rose Online? This whole situation seems ODD to me.... When you say "small scale passion product" I question how they could possibly get the green light from Gravity as they are a business first and foremost. So did they ask to buy it, Gravity gave them a price, and they licensed the game? Not to mention OTHER clients that the discord specifically mentions to NOT talk about. WHY? Because they "aren't official?" or is it because they too got "the green light" from Gravity too. I mean if a BROKE new studio can afford to buy rights to a game, what is stopping other people from doing so? I have never seen a game dev studio new or old have to fire up a "kickstarter" to hire "a lead game developer". It doesn't make sense to me. Don't get me wrong, I hope these guys succeed and bring Rose back in an official capacity.... but just how official can they be? When I think like a business, it would cost money to license the game. And to get "full exclusive rights in the USA" would cost even more money. Game studios don't just let an IP out of their hands.... money is their only goal.

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3 hours ago, namcost said:

How did a small studio, who doesn't even have enough funding to hire real developers (their "kickstarter" to hire a real lead developer) get "exclusive rights" to make a new version of Rose Online? This whole situation seems ODD to me....

[...]

I have never seen a game dev studio new or old have to fire up a "kickstarter" to hire "a lead game developer". It doesn't make sense to me.

First of all, please do not ever repeat this false talking point of "hiring a real lead developer". Private server trolls keep saying this, but it's not true. As you can see here,  it says "our" lead game designer. That is Garnet, who, like the rest of the team, is still working a regular job.

grafik.png

3 hours ago, namcost said:

When you say "small scale passion product" I question how they could possibly get the green light from Gravity as they are a business first and foremost. So did they ask to buy it, Gravity gave them a price, and they licensed the game?

I do not know the conditions of the licensing contract and I do not want to speculate, but any income for Gravity for a license in that region is more than none. Just because Rednim Games does not have any revenue as a studio from previous games does not mean, that they do not have any (private) capital. Without any capital they could not even pay the hosting fees etc.

3 hours ago, namcost said:

WHY? Because they "aren't official?" or is it because they too got "the green light" from Gravity too. I mean if a BROKE new studio can afford to buy rights to a game, what is stopping other people from doing so?

This is another lie, pushed by the private server trolls. Any active ROSE server does not have an official license and has been perpetrating brazen copyright infringement, enriching themselves through an item mall no less greedy than Gravity's original one. My guess would be, that they just never asked for a license, because it would just cost them money and they've been getting away without having to pay that for a long time.

Those active private servers are enriching themselves based on assets they did not pay for / do not have the rights to. Any official business would disallow those being promoted on their own media channels. Could you imagine WoW private servers being promoted on the the official WoW forums?

3 hours ago, namcost said:

I hope these guys succeed and bring Rose back in an official capacity.... but just how official can they be? When I think like a business, it would cost money to license the game. And to get "full exclusive rights in the USA" would cost even more money. Game studios don't just let an IP out of their hands.... money is their only goal.

Rednim Games is an official business operating in the US, consisting of people who have a good reputation from their previous endeavours into (private) ROSE development. That makes them a pretty serious business partner in my eyes.

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3 hours ago, namcost said:

How did a small studio, who doesn't even have enough funding to hire real developers (their "kickstarter" to hire a real lead developer) get "exclusive rights" to make a new version of Rose Online? This whole situation seems ODD to me.... When you say "small scale passion product" I question how they could possibly get the green light from Gravity as they are a business first and foremost. So did they ask to buy it, Gravity gave them a price, and they licensed the game? Not to mention OTHER clients that the discord specifically mentions to NOT talk about. WHY? Because they "aren't official?" or is it because they too got "the green light" from Gravity too. I mean if a BROKE new studio can afford to buy rights to a game, what is stopping other people from doing so? I have never seen a game dev studio new or old have to fire up a "kickstarter" to hire "a lead game developer". It doesn't make sense to me. Don't get me wrong, I hope these guys succeed and bring Rose back in an official capacity.... but just how official can they be? When I think like a business, it would cost money to license the game. And to get "full exclusive rights in the USA" would cost even more money. Game studios don't just let an IP out of their hands.... money is their only goal.

Jesus Christ, do you need a hug bro?

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1 hour ago, Rebus said:

First of all, please do not ever repeat this false talking point of "hiring a real lead developer". Private server trolls keep saying this, but it's not true. As you can see here,  it says "our" lead game designer. That is Garnet, who, like the rest of the team, is still working a regular job.

grafik.png

I do not know the conditions of the licensing contract and I do not want to speculate, but any income for Gravity for a license in that region is more than none. Just because Rednim Games does not have any revenue as a studio from previous games does not mean, that they do not have any (private) capital. Without any capital they could not even pay the hosting fees etc.

This is another lie, pushed by the private server trolls. Any active ROSE server does not have an official license and has been perpetrating brazen copyright infringement, enriching themselves through an item mall no less greedy than Gravity's original one. My guess would be, that they just never asked for a license, because it would just cost them money and they've been getting away without having to pay that for a long time.

Those active private servers are enriching themselves based on assets they did not pay for / do not have the rights to. Any official business would disallow those being promoted on their own media channels. Could you imagine WoW private servers being promoted on the the official WoW forums?

Rednim Games is an official business operating in the US, consisting of people who have a good reputation from their previous endeavours into (private) ROSE development. That makes them a pretty serious business partner in my eyes.

Well said, Rebus

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1 hour ago, Rebus said:

First of all, please do not ever repeat this false talking point of "hiring a real lead developer". Private server trolls keep saying this, but it's not true. As you can see here,  it says "our" lead game designer. That is Garnet, who, like the rest of the team, is still working a regular job.

grafik.png

I do not know the conditions of the licensing contract and I do not want to speculate, but any income for Gravity for a license in that region is more than none. Just because Rednim Games does not have any revenue as a studio from previous games does not mean, that they do not have any (private) capital. Without any capital they could not even pay the hosting fees etc.

This is another lie, pushed by the private server trolls. Any active ROSE server does not have an official license and has been perpetrating brazen copyright infringement, enriching themselves through an item mall no less greedy than Gravity's original one. My guess would be, that they just never asked for a license, because it would just cost them money and they've been getting away without having to pay that for a long time.

Those active private servers are enriching themselves based on assets they did not pay for / do not have the rights to. Any official business would disallow those being promoted on their own media channels. Could you imagine WoW private servers being promoted on the the official WoW forums?

Rednim Games is an official business operating in the US, consisting of people who have a good reputation from their previous endeavours into (private) ROSE development. That makes them a pretty serious business partner in my eyes.

Good point. +1

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19 hours ago, Rebus said:

First of all, please do not ever repeat this false talking point of "hiring a real lead developer". Private server trolls keep saying this, but it's not true. As you can see here,  it says "our" lead game designer. That is Garnet, who, like the rest of the team, is still working a regular job.

grafik.png

I do not know the conditions of the licensing contract and I do not want to speculate, but any income for Gravity for a license in that region is more than none. Just because Rednim Games does not have any revenue as a studio from previous games does not mean, that they do not have any (private) capital. Without any capital they could not even pay the hosting fees etc.

This is another lie, pushed by the private server trolls. Any active ROSE server does not have an official license and has been perpetrating brazen copyright infringement, enriching themselves through an item mall no less greedy than Gravity's original one. My guess would be, that they just never asked for a license, because it would just cost them money and they've been getting away without having to pay that for a long time.

Those active private servers are enriching themselves based on assets they did not pay for / do not have the rights to. Any official business would disallow those being promoted on their own media channels. Could you imagine WoW private servers being promoted on the the official WoW forums?

Rednim Games is an official business operating in the US, consisting of people who have a good reputation from their previous endeavors into (private) ROSE development. That makes them a pretty serious business partner in my eyes.

You keep bringing up private server trolls a lot in your response.... That which I am not. I am literally not playing any version of rose because there isn't one to play (officially). Not to mention I don't even know these other people "spreading false information" as you put it.... your response to these "trolls" seems way over the top to me. I cam to these conclusions based on what I saw myself....

You literally mention that Rednim games employees work NORMAL jobs, and then do as much work on the game on their spare time. Am I getting this right? And you are saying that the goal of their "kickstarter" is to allow one of these employees working "a normal job" to quit, and essentially work non stop on the game for 3 months. Am I getting this right? Okay so they aren't hiring a NEW lead developer, its to give the lead developer free time to work on the game itself correct? Because it sounds to me like licensing the game from Gravity is pretty dirt cheap.... if a bunch of "fans" who "banded together" can buy a license and then do as they please, then what's is to say anyone else can/could? Hell I am half tempted to call up gravity and ask myself how much licensing would cost just for shits and giggles.... I mean you LITERALLY use the term "passion project" and that doesn't bold well.... when I think game studio I don't think "passion project" and "people working normal jobs plus their position at rednim".....

Did I not see another mention (discord?) where the developers at Rednim will have complete creative control over the game, vs Gravity telling them how to do things? What is to say those other "illegal servers" didn't also get the green light from Gravity. I don't know, I don't run those servers. But I am making an honest point. I am not upset, not trying to stir the pot, I'm just asking questions and making logical points. 

Honestly don't understand how people apply emotion to words written on a page and get so upset. its kinda weird.

Edited by namcost
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26 minutes ago, namcost said:

You keep bringing up private server trolls a lot in your response.... That which I am not. I am literally not playing any version of rose because there isn't one to play (officially). Not to mention I don't even know these other people "spreading false information" as you put it.... your response to these "trolls" seems way over the top to me. I cam to these conclusions based on what I saw myself....

You literally mention that Rednim games employees work NORMAL jobs, and then do as much work on the game on their spare time. Am I getting this right? And you are saying that the goal of their "kickstarter" is to allow one of these employees working "a normal job" to quit, and essentially work non stop on the game for 3 months. Am I getting this right? Okay so they aren't hiring a NEW lead developer, its to give the lead developer free time to work on the game itself correct? Because it sounds to me like licensing the game from Gravity is pretty dirt cheap.... if a bunch of "fans" who "banded together" can buy a license and then do as they please, then what's is to say anyone else can/could? Hell I am half tempted to call up gravity and ask myself how much licensing would cost just for shits and giggles.... I mean you LITERALLY use the term "passion project" and that doesn't bold well.... when I think game studio I don't think "passion project" and "people working normal jobs plus their position at rednim".....

Did I not see another mention (discord?) where the developers at Rednim will have complete creative control over the game, vs Gravity telling them how to do things? What is to say those other "illegal servers" didn't also get the green light from Gravity. I don't know, I don't run those servers. But I am making an honest point. I am not upset, not trying to stir the pot, I'm just asking questions and making logical points. 

Honestly don't understand how people apply emotion to words written on a page and get so upset. its kinda weird.

No, you’re not making logical points and are trying to stir the pot. 
 

Rebus is probably too nice to ask, but who tf are you to come here claiming that these developers don’t have experience and literally making shit up without any actual facts to support your claims? 
 

If you want to call Gravity, then go right ahead. No one gives two shits. I can, however, say that you’d probably get no one on your server with this shitty attitude you have and trying to hide it as “logical and honest questions.” If you don’t like this team, then bye. No one is forcing you to stay here or play this iteration of the game. 
 

The team is also under no obligation to be discussing business strategy, or whatever else, to someone like you, especially with the accusations you came here with that you pulled out of your own ass. 

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1 minute ago, Avatar said:

No, you’re not making logical points and are trying to stir the pot. 
 

Rebus is probably too nice to ask, but who tf are you to come here claiming that these developers don’t have experience and literally making shit up without any actual facts to support your claims? 
 

If you want to call Gravity, then go right ahead. No one gives two shits. I can, however, say that you’d probably get no one on your server with this shitty attitude you have and trying to hide it as “logical and honest questions.” If you don’t like this team, then bye. No one is forcing you to stay here or play this iteration of the game. 
 

The team is also under no obligation to be discussing business strategy, or whatever else, to someone like you, especially with the accusations you came here that you pulled out of your own ass. 

Okay first off. Calm down. Take a deep breath. And grow up....

Secondly, when did I say they have no experience? I never said any such words. So not only are you upset for no reason, but you are trying to put words in my mouth. Seems to me YOU are the one trying to "stir the pot"....

Thirdly, my attitude? Bro I don't have one. I am just being honest and open. Something you should try sometime instead of lashing out like a child.... I wasn't even trying to talk trash about Rednim. I am just pointing out the obvious. I never asked Rednim to discuses business strategy's or "whatever else."

Seriously go outside and get some fresh air....

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38 minutes ago, namcost said:

You keep bringing up private server trolls a lot in your response

That's because you happen to bring multiple of the same, false, claims that have been repeated about Rednim by private server players on discord, and social media. This makes sense as all their work and money they've spent on their characters would be lost if their illegally operating server shut down.
 

38 minutes ago, namcost said:

You literally mention that Rednim games employees work NORMAL jobs, and then do as much work on the game on their spare time. Am I getting this right?

Yep

 

38 minutes ago, namcost said:

And you are saying that the goal of their "kickstarter" is to allow one of these employees working "a normal job" to quit, and essentially work non stop on the game for 3 months. Am I getting this right?

I'm not sure where you're getting 3 months from. It is clearly stated in the goal Rebus posted:

Quote

Our first funding goal will be to hire our lead game designer full-time. This will enable us to focus on work related to game content, game balance, end-game, pvp and more.

 

38 minutes ago, namcost said:

Okay so they aren't hiring a NEW lead developer, its to give the lead developer free time to work on the game itself correct?

See above

 

38 minutes ago, namcost said:

if a bunch of "fans" who "banded together" can buy a license and then do as they please, then what's is to say anyone else can/could?

So you also have a team of 5+ devs who have all been working on open source ROSE for 5-10+ years each too? Go ahead and call

 

38 minutes ago, namcost said:

when I think game studio I don't think "passion project" and "people working normal jobs plus their position at rednim"

See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indie_game

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9 minutes ago, namcost said:

Okay first off. Calm down. Take a deep breath. And grow up....

Secondly, when did I say they have no experience? I never said any such words. So not only are you upset for no reason, but you are trying to put words in my mouth. Seems to me YOU are the one trying to "stir the pot"....

Thirdly, my attitude? Bro I don't have one. I am just being honest and open. Something you should try sometime instead of lashing out like a child.... I wasn't even trying to talk trash about Rednim. I am just pointing out the obvious. I never asked Rednim to discuses business strategy's or "whatever else."

Seriously go outside and get some fresh air....

First off, I am calm. You probably think otherwise because I’m calling you out and quite frankly I couldn’t care less. I am grown and can’t say the same about you looking back at how you entered this community. Look in the mirror if you want to see the definition of a child. 
 

Secondly, anyone here can see you’re the one attempting to stir something. Read your remarks over and tell me you’re not attacking the staff. 
 

Thirdly, yes, your attitude. You absolutely have one. Again, you should probably re-read your posts prior to posting them. You are not being honest and open, you’re being a dick. Go make your own game and wait for me to give baseless accusations and let’s see how well you receive them. The child in this forum is you, lol. 

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Hi all, this thread is getting heated so I am going to lock it. If you'd like to continue discussing elements from this conversation then please start a new thread with those specific discussion points.

 

Regarding the original question, we did consider rewriting the project in Unreal Engine and even have an internal prototype with all the game assets imported into the engine and basic combat/networking. However, we opted not to go down this route as it would essentially mean remaking the entire game from scratch. This is not a small undertaking and would have taken years, our original estimate was 3 years to bring the remake to feature parity. Instead we opted to continue where the game was left off and slowly iterate on it. Will we ever switch engines? Maybe, maybe not, but our current priority is to revive the game and the community. It has already taken us longer than we anticipated to relaunch the game and we would not work on anything to delay that further.


All the best.

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