Inverted dealers

[Ashura]

I feel most of the dealer (arti/bourg) skills are inverted and would acutally benefit the one more than the other in my opinion it is just not interesting enough and enjoyable to play these characters because you not only miss a few skills that would make the class decent again.

Insane cooldown of bourg skills is ridiculous i do get that the Packed Power should help with this but it is definitely not well thought through in my opinion, also the skill Cannonier's Panic which gives you added m-spd really does not make sense if the max lvl only lasts for 5sec and you have the windstep skill which give you 300m-spd when activated to run away. This should be an arti skill (Cannonier's Panic) for its lack of damage and survivability. This is also true for (Excitable Trigger Finger) which would be more beneficial for bourg's than artisan. Launcher Smash added effect should also change from m-spd down to a stun effect.

Bourg gun skill tree should also be available for artisans or should be transfered to the artisan class as it is much more beneficial as well. I remeber asking for weeks on end on discord(supporter chat) and in my clan where i can get the skill book (Weapon Augment) and no one responded well someone said HoO might drop it but only until i leveled a bourg i found out its in its skill tree, yet the skillbook says gun but not specifying that it is a bourg skill only.

Crafting - Honestly i do not have a really good solution for this conundrum as i feel it is not beneficial at all to artisan's if they can craft items,armor,weapons for the next level but the success rate is really low so you can't use it or craft an item i.e you are lvl155 and want to craft a new lvl160 set of armor or weapon but you craft it or the amount of materials you can't find or a low drop rate for the materials. So in that regard it will be a waste of time and effort.

Perhaps crafting materials with higher quality mats would improve this scenario to increase the success rate but will take a hit on added sub stats due to insufficient expertise.

Edited December 29, 2023 by Ashura

[HilariousFace]

5 hours ago, Ashura said:

Crafting

Call me crazy all you want, but I think the whole Artisan class should be deleted, reworked as a normal fighting class instead of being something for someone to grind the levels for convenience. I believe everyone including champ, knight, raider, scout, cleric, mage should have access to crafting as common skills. The whole crafting privilege of this class has been significantly deteriorate by other power creeping stuff introduced into the game the past 10 years, the only really Artisan class exclusive stuff are

 

Gem cutting - significantly obsolete by king dropped gems

Advanced Reinforcement/Endowment - Reinforced armor are good for survival, however the potential is severely hindered by the max vending slots limitation

Hardened/Darkened/Balanced/Enchanted - the first two are good, but accuracy is not needed for PvM, and MP consumption % is nowhere near close to those weapons that you actually need them like unique wand, staff

PAT craft - also significantly obsolete by cart parts that you can obtain from events, and they have failure rates upon crafting, certainly not affordable by new players

Advanced alchemy craft - did I miss something? why do these box of red/blue pots have such high failure rates? what's the point to craft these when you have to do an extra step to unbox them?

Advanced subitem craft - materials are hard to gather because players are not gathering enough mats and don't have enough zulies to pay you back

Accessory craft - this one is not bad I guess, but the useful one cannot get max stat because they are grade 6 items, the dropped unique jewelry all can get max stat

 

So, I don't see the point keeping these lackluster crafts exclusive to Artisan which is a boring experience to level up with. Make Artisan a normal fighting class who specialize in area denial skills, engineering watch towers to attack nearby monster insight, or disable a certain radius of monster aggression. A new artisan party buff that exempt the ammunition consumption, and a new artisan party buff that exempt armor/weapon durability degrading from fighting.

 

[HoneyBuns]

 

7 hours ago, Ashura said:

I feel most of the dealer (arti/bourg) skills are inverted and would acutally benefit the one more than the other in my opinion it is just not interesting enough and enjoyable to play these characters because you not only miss a few skills that would make the class decent again.

Insane cooldown of bourg skills is ridiculous i do get that the Packed Power should help with this but it is definitely not well thought through in my opinion, also the skill Cannonier's Panic which gives you added m-spd really does not make sense if the max lvl only lasts for 5sec and you have the windstep skill which give you 300m-spd when activated to run away. This should be an arti skill (Cannonier's Panic) for its lack of damage and survivability. This is also true for (Excitable Trigger Finger) which would be more beneficial for bourg's than artisan. Launcher Smash added effect should also change from m-spd down to a stun effect.

Bourg gun skill tree should also be available for artisans or should be transfered to the artisan class as it is much more beneficial as well. I remeber asking for weeks on end on discord(supporter chat) and in my clan where i can get the skill book (Weapon Augment) and no one responded well someone said HoO might drop it but only until i leveled a bourg i found out its in its skill tree, yet the skillbook says gun but not specifying that it is a bourg skill only.

Crafting - Honestly i do not have a really good solution for this conundrum as i feel it is not beneficial at all to artisan's if they can craft items,armor,weapons for the next level but the success rate is really low so you can't use it or craft an item i.e you are lvl155 and want to craft a new lvl160 set of armor or weapon but you craft it or the amount of materials you can't find or a low drop rate for the materials. So in that regard it will be a waste of time and effort.

Perhaps crafting materials with higher quality mats would improve this scenario to increase the success rate but will take a hit on added sub stats due to insufficient expertise.

The team is in the process of reviewing all of the job classes with the goal of balancing but also tweaking and improving skills and dealers definitely need a lot of love.  Crafting is especially brutal because a crafter can't make anything they can use themselves until they are max level. The team is aware of the problems with the crafting system.

As for the unique skill problem you mentioned, I made this topic about a month ago to help clear up some of the unique skill confusion.  As we review each job class, we will be adjusting descriptions on many skills to make them easier to understand.  

It's all tied together and it will take time, but we're working on improving and balancing the job classes. 

[Ashura]

3 hours ago, HoneyBuns said:

 

The team is in the process of reviewing all of the job classes with the goal of balancing but also tweaking and improving skills and dealers definitely need a lot of love.  Crafting is especially brutal because a crafter can't make anything they can use themselves until they are max level. The team is aware of the problems with the crafting system.

As for the unique skill problem you mentioned, I made this topic about a month ago to help clear up some of the unique skill confusion.  As we review each job class, we will be adjusting descriptions on many skills to make them easier to understand.  

It's all tied together and it will take time, but we're working on improving and balancing the job classes. 

Thank you for the response HoneyBuns.

I am referring to the skill (Weapon Augment) in the bourg skill tree if you opt to go gunbourg route, but the unique skill Augmenting Reflection only indicates it can be used with a gun and not that it is a bourg unique skill only. This in essence make using a gun artisan null and void because the launcher atk spd will be higher than your gun atk spd considering launcher default atk spd is 0.6 and gun default atk spd is 0.7 i cant remember the thread i read regarding the base atk spd's for all classes might have been in one of the patch notes if i am not mistaken. Anyway

The other problem is also that if you intend to go the route of an artisan who deals DoT damage/battle artisan or non-crafting artisan most of the skills are limited for choice.

 

Edited December 29, 2023 by Ashura

[zstark]

8 hours ago, HilariousFace said:

Gem cutting - significantly obsolete by king dropped gems

Advanced Reinforcement/Endowment - Reinforced armor are good for survival, however the potential is severely hindered by the max vending slots limitation

Hardened/Darkened/Balanced/Enchanted - the first two are good, but accuracy is not needed for PvM, and MP consumption % is nowhere near close to those weapons that you actually need them like unique wand, staff

PAT craft - also significantly obsolete by cart parts that you can obtain from events, and they have failure rates upon crafting, certainly not affordable by new players

Advanced alchemy craft - did I miss something? why do these box of red/blue pots have such high failure rates? what's the point to craft these when you have to do an extra step to unbox them?

Advanced subitem craft - materials are hard to gather because players are not gathering enough mats and don't have enough zulies to pay you back

Accessory craft - this one is not bad I guess, but the useful one cannot get max stat because they are grade 6 items, the dropped unique jewelry all can get max stat

 

So, I don't see the point keeping these lackluster crafts exclusive to Artisan which is a boring experience to level up with. Make Artisan a normal fighting class who specialize in area denial skills, engineering watch towers to attack nearby monster insight, or disable a certain radius of monster aggression. A new artisan party buff that exempt the ammunition consumption, and a new artisan party buff that exempt armor/weapon durability degrading from fighting.

 

Gems- There are gems that drop only from kings and gems that you can craft.

advance rein/endow, - i agree

Hardened/Darkened/Balanced/Enchanted- i agree

Pat craft- yes carts can be obtained from events but these are not always available. Prices of carts have dropped significantly and worth investing in as they are transferable to any of your chars or accounts.

Advanced alchemy craft- you can craft them individually using alchemy craft if you don't want to unbox them but crafting crates saves time than crafting them individually.

Advanced subitem craft- The majority of the materials can be obtained from disassembling npc items. This saves time from farming.

Accessory craft- I think a putting max stats on 140 accessories will be too op and probably make arua and hebarn accessories irrelevant even though the arua and hebarn stones are rare.

14 hours ago, Ashura said:

I feel most of the dealer (arti/bourg) skills are inverted and would acutally benefit the one more than the other in my opinion it is just not interesting enough and enjoyable to play these characters because you not only miss a few skills that would make the class decent again.

Crafting - Honestly i do not have a really good solution for this conundrum as i feel it is not beneficial at all to artisan's if they can craft items, armor, weapons for the next level but the success rate is really low so you can't use it or craft an item i.e you are lvl155 and want to craft a new lvl160 set of armor or weapon but you craft it or the amount of materials you can't find or a low drop rate for the materials. So in that regard it will be a waste of time and effort.

Perhaps crafting materials with higher quality mats would improve this scenario to increase the success rate but will take a hit on added sub stats due to insufficient expertise.

Crafting- The question is. Can you wear a 160 armor if you are level 155? I think it's reasonable to have at least some difficulty crafting a higher level item. You can simply level up and buy accessories that give more con and always use a crafting hammer. I personally have successfully crafted items from as early as level 30 up to level 240s. I think the crafting system is ok but could be a lot better. I agree that the success rates needs improving and having new skills would be nice too.

Artisan/bourg gameplay- I mainly use artisan but I can see why artisans and bourgs can be less interesting and less enjoyable than other classes. Imo, its probably due to requirement of bullets/shells to use their main weapon and less mobility/survivability skills than other classes. I've experienced and seen artis/bourgs using axe or sword when they've run out of bullets and shells in dungeons lol. I think bullets, shells and ammunition should be removed. Also, when I join cou and SC, its kinda sad that artis/bourgs always need be piggybacked by other classes or else we just die trying to go to the bosses. Clerics/mages have heals and mana shield, knights and champs have high def, scouts and raiders have stealth. bourg/arti? a movement speed passive?. Overall, artis/bourgs are unique and still fun to play but they should not be limited to being a crafter and farmer class. I've only recently started doing dgs and it seems like its mostly raiders and clerics that join dungeons. I see champs, mages and knights often however I would also like to see more of my fellow artisans in dungeons too.

6 hours ago, HoneyBuns said:

 

The team is in the process of reviewing all of the job classes with the goal of balancing but also tweaking and improving skills and dealers definitely need a lot of love.  Crafting is especially brutal because a crafter can't make anything they can use themselves until they are max level. The team is aware of the problems with the crafting system.

It's all tied together and it will take time, but we're working on improving and balancing the job classes. 

This is something to look forward to. 

Edited December 30, 2023 by zstark

[Ashura]

On 12/30/2023 at 2:18 AM, zstark said:

Gems- There are gems that drop only from kings and gems that you can craft.

advance rein/endow, - i agree

Hardened/Darkened/Balanced/Enchanted- i agree

Pat craft- yes carts can be obtained from events but these are not always available. Prices of carts have dropped significantly and worth investing in as they are transferable to any of your chars or accounts.

Advanced alchemy craft- you can craft them individually using alchemy craft if you don't want to unbox them but crafting crates saves time than crafting them individually.

Advanced subitem craft- The majority of the materials can be obtained from disassembling npc items. This saves time from farming.

Accessory craft- I think a putting max stats on 140 accessories will be too op and probably make arua and hebarn accessories irrelevant even though the arua and hebarn stones are rare.

Crafting- The question is. Can you wear a 160 armor if you are level 155? I think it's reasonable to have at least some difficulty crafting a higher level item. You can simply level up and buy accessories that give more con and always use a crafting hammer. I personally have successfully crafted items from as early as level 30 up to level 240s. I think the crafting system is ok but could be a lot better. I agree that the success rates needs improving and having new skills would be nice too.

Artisan/bourg gameplay- I mainly use artisan but I can see why artisans and bourgs can be less interesting and less enjoyable than other classes. Imo, its probably due to requirement of bullets/shells to use their main weapon and less mobility/survivability skills than other classes. I've experienced and seen artis/bourgs using axe or sword when they've run out of bullets and shells in dungeons lol. I think bullets, shells and ammunition should be removed. Also, when I join cou and SC, its kinda sad that artis/bourgs always need be piggybacked by other classes or else we just die trying to go to the bosses. Clerics/mages have heals and mana shield, knights and champs have high def, scouts and raiders have stealth. bourg/arti? a movement speed passive?. Overall, artis/bourgs are unique and still fun to play but they should not be limited to being a crafter and farmer class. I've only recently started doing dgs and it seems like its mostly raiders and clerics that join dungeons. I see champs, mages and knights often however I would also like to see more of my fellow artisans in dungeons too.

This is something to look forward to. 

Its not just a matter of being unable to equip the gear its a matter of even when you are lvl160 the chances of you successfully crafting those items is RNG even with the success rate available, the first hammer you can equip is level 170 fortunately you are able to wear the crown which gives you a 30 Con boost and with all gear having con/sen stats you will likely craft the item but with low substats.

 

If we delve into making arti/bourgs more tankable or have better buff potions then the rest of the other classes will moan that arti/bourgs are OP like they do with cleric/mage, i honestly don't understand why people can't just work things out for themselves on how to beat another player but yeah.

 

Crafting should just be crafting its unnecessary to have 2 (advanced/alchemy) divisions if majority of the lower version is available in the higher tier as well.

Bullets should be easily craftable and materials should not be a pain to gather, another benefit would be if the bullets and arrows added status effects after a while not as potent as skill status effects but at least it will be worthwhile to obtain and use a specific ammo.

The bag dynamic should also change so that it can be used as an extra storage slot or two specifically for dealers or can be mainstreamed and is accessible for everyone to make it more popular, can perhaps also make it that only craftable bags has this effect.

 

[zstark]

3 hours ago, Ashura said:

Its not just a matter of being unable to equip the gear its a matter of even when you are lvl160 the chances of you successfully crafting those items is RNG even with the success rate available, the first hammer you can equip is level 170 fortunately you are able to wear the crown which gives you a 30 Con boost and with all gear having con/sen stats you will likely craft the item but with low substats.

 

If we delve into making arti/bourgs more tankable or have better buff potions then the rest of the other classes will moan that arti/bourgs are OP like they do with cleric/mage, i honestly don't understand why people can't just work things out for themselves on how to beat another player but yeah.

 

Crafting should just be crafting its unnecessary to have 2 (advanced/alchemy) divisions if majority of the lower version is available in the higher tier as well.

Bullets should be easily craftable and materials should not be a pain to gather, another benefit would be if the bullets and arrows added status effects after a while not as potent as skill status effects but at least it will be worthwhile to obtain and use a specific ammo.

The bag dynamic should also change so that it can be used as an extra storage slot or two specifically for dealers or can be mainstreamed and is accessible for everyone to make it more popular, can perhaps also make it that only craftable bags has this effect.

 

You can use crafting hammer as early as level 125. Also buying accessories from NPCs with con will improve success rate. Farming or buying legendary gear from other players also give con and worth investing in.

Have you tried doing dgs?. almost 70-90 percent of players are raiders. They are simply the more dominant class. Once they use stealth they don't take damage from mobs. Clerics/mage and knight/champs are still vulnerable from mobs and still need to invest on potions and good stats (ms,dodge,def) on equipment to get to the boss. Artis and bourgs are at a huge disadvantage as they need alot of ammunition and good equipment to clear and reach the boss which is consuming a lot of resource and time. To put more fuel in the fire, I've experienced being kicked out of SC a number of times because they want to have a 'smooth run'. 

I did not mention anything regarding buff potions and artis/bourgs needing to be tanky. I mentioned that they need more survivability and mobility skills. It's not about beating another player, its about the experience of playing the class and game generally.

I agree that crafting ammunition can be difficult. Some crafted ammunition does have elements that deal more damage to mobs with weaker defensive element and would benefit from slight status effect as you say. However, imo, crafting crates only gives 100 ammunition, runs out quickly, takes up space in the inventory and does not sell well if you vend. Either buffs are introduced to ammunitions quantity/quality/status effects or remove them entirely. Although, I will miss the cold bullets if entirely removed  . 

100% agree on the bag feature. Also, to make artis and bourgs more popular the reload animation should be changed. Currently, the gun animation reloads every auto attack, which is not realistic. Clerics have an indicator bar for their mana shield so I think it would be nice to have an indicator for bullets before reloading. 6-9 bullets above the hp bar then the final bullet crits 100% succession before reloading. Lets make dealer/arti/bourg class great  

Edited January 4 by zstark

[Ashura]

14 hours ago, zstark said:

You can use crafting hammer as early as level 125. Also buying accessories from NPCs with con will improve success rate. Farming or buying legendary gear from other players also give con and worth investing in.

Have you tried doing dgs?. almost 70-90 percent of players are raiders. They are simply the more dominant class. Once they use stealth they don't take damage from mobs. Clerics/mage and knight/champs are still vulnerable from mobs and still need to invest on potions and good stats (ms,dodge,def) on equipment to get to the boss. Artis and bourgs are at a huge disadvantage as they need alot of ammunition and good equipment to clear and reach the boss which is consuming a lot of resource and time. To put more fuel in the fire, I've experienced being kicked out of SC a number of times because they want to have a 'smooth run'. 

I did not mention anything regarding buff potions and artis/bourgs needing to be tanky. I mentioned that they need more survivability and mobility skills. It's not about beating another player, its about the experience of playing the class and game generally.

I agree that crafting ammunition can be difficult. Some crafted ammunition does have elements that deal more damage to mobs with weaker defensive element and would benefit from slight status effect as you say. However, imo, crafting crates only gives 100 ammunition, runs out quickly, takes up space in the inventory and does not sell well if you vend. Either buffs are introduced to ammunitions quantity/quality/status effects or remove them entirely. Although, I will miss the cold bullets if entirely removed  . 

100% agree on the bag feature. Also, to make artis and bourgs more popular the reload animation should be changed. Currently, the gun animation reloads every auto attack, which is not realistic. Clerics have an indicator bar for their mana shield so I think it would be nice to have an indicator for bullets before reloading. 6-9 bullets above the hp bar then the final bullet crits 100% succession before reloading. Lets make dealer/arti/bourg class great  

Nice to know i was not aware there were more hammers at lower levels available.

Agree with your points regarding the cooldown and animation needs a review, i didn't mean tanky in the sense difficult to kill like in knight level i was referring to i meant in the sense of having to spend a decent amount of time trying to kill them. The bullets i am aware that it does a little bit more damage if used against mobs that are weak to the respective element i meant that over time it will cause a DoT effect due to excessive/frequent exposure to bullets effect especially the fire/ice/poison bullets.