Removing the ability to give class specific buffs to other players, keeping self buffs.

[Averybee24601]

In this post I'd like to make people aware of a big concern I, and some people may have. That concern lies with the fact all classes will have their own buff(s) that is able to buff others, rather than before having cleric be able to give all buffs, hawker, soldier, dealer, and muse will be able to. Now I understand their intentions behind removing cleric offensive buffs, them wanting cleric to be more of a playable class and avoid them being used as only "buffslaves" However, this raises an even bigger issues and will just shift the label of clerics being a "buffslave" to all of the other classes, making players make multiple of each class only for the purpose of giving that classes buff, rendering that character useless for anything else, which ultimately defeats the purpose of their initial reasoning of removing cleric buffs, to avoid any class from being a "buffslave". And if you don't think this is going to happen, I'm sorry to inform you it will, i experienced this meta myself in the  2016-17 era of NA rose, everybody had their buffslaves dedicated to those two buffs they got rendering them useless for anything else. I think to solve this problem, the best solution would be to simply remove all targeted buffs make all of the classs a specific buffs self buff only. I think this would not only make for a level playing field, solving the solution of having no characters or classes as buffslaves, but also incentivize diverse and unique playstyles. By this i mean it will provoke players to give more thought to what class they'd like to play, and pick what stat theyd like to specialize in, for example hawker is atk speed movement speed, soldier is atk power defensive, dealer is accuracy, critical, etc. i think i just think it would make that class more unique to certain stats, adding to the lore of that class providing more class specific benefits, creating more diverse playstyles rather than playing one class who can have every buff they want.

 

I'd love to hear your thought on this issue if you have any. Thanks so much for reading!

 

Edited May 10, 2022 by Averybee24601

[Sui]

They limit it to two clients so people won't be able to walk around with 5 alts just buffing themselves. You also shouldn't destroy an entire mechanic of buffing people just because you're worried people may do a scenario you're making up in your head (the game isn't even playable atm!).

I'm sorry but this feels like an overreaction to something that hasn't even happened yet.

[Charas]

PVP with self buffs doesn't work / is not balanced in latest EVO. The amount of balancing work this would imply is gigantic and therefore, I'm against this idea. I will stick to remove buffs all together and add it as passive stat boost to let the game feel good for everyone without having to waste time begging for buffs or having to log 4 different chars (1 buffing account) every 15 minutes.

I would like to see a revamp of "buffs" design... with class specific buffs disappearing completely on hawker / dealer / soldier and Mages -> regrouping buffs into 2 skills only 1) attack 2) defence, giving those exclusively to clerics, party wide (no group wide) with a long CD (let's say 2 minutes) for a 10 sec duration. This would let cleric manage burst phases in PVE and PVP giving a very tactical role to the class without affecting the base game balance drastically.

Remember, we all want the game to come out, and forcing the team to go through a whole rebalancing of every skills for every class is not in our best interest!

[Averybee24601]

2 hours ago, Sui said:

They limit it to two clients so people won't be able to walk around with 5 alts just buffing themselves. You also shouldn't destroy an entire mechanic of buffing people just because you're worried people may do a scenario you're making up in your head (the game isn't even playable atm!).

I'm sorry but this feels like an overreaction to something that hasn't even happened yet.

I know it'd be unfortunate removing all buffs, but its just not fair being able to buff players with other classes and it creates an unlevel playing field, even more so with the removal of cleric buffs. And yes multi clienting is being restricted but thats only per PC, lots of people have multiple PC'S and will still be making these buffslaves, the only difference being now its even more unfair than having unlimited clients because rather than everybody being able to benefit from this exploitation only hardcore people with multiple pcs will be able to do this. and to your point that this was an  over exaggeration, it is not i have played the previous version on which this game shutdown in which this did happen, why would it not happen again with no changes to the system? Anyways, because of your feedback, i reflected on this idea a little more and i think that i have a way to improve it so i thank you for that. So, How about rather than removing them all together keeping them as PvE only buffs when buffing others. Because this doesn't turn into an issue and make it an unfair and unlevel playing field until you factor in PVP. having friends, being in a big clan, or even doing it yourself with multiple clients it doesnt matter its an unfair advantage and will break balance. So, I think keeping them in the game, still making people feel strong but not making it unfair in pvp would be the best idea. To add to this even more, I think it'd be cool if yeah they were PvE only buffs BUT only when casting it on another person and giving them the buff, i think to keep the diversity in builds and uniqueness to classes as i mentioned, they made it so when its casted on yourself/ you own the buff, you get the full benefits of PVP and PVE but others still only get pve. 

what do you think about that idea? Thanks for your feedback i really appreciate it.

Edited May 10, 2022 by Averybee24601

[Malak]

To me, another solution would be to have the buff locked on the party players.  If the buff giver leaves a party, all the buffs he put on players from that party are removed too.

So cleric will still be a buffslave, but you just have to keep him there and potentially loosing another teammember on said party.
Another way to balance buffric would be around those :

 - Buffs are more aggressive but stay way less (thinking of seconds).  Something around that
 - Having a stat that modifies the duration of said buffs, making a balance between his power & his duration (you can't max both).

Just random toughts that surely requires more polishing but maybe interesting in the long run ?

 

[Averybee24601]

1 hour ago, Charas said:

PVP with self buffs doesn't work / is not balanced in latest EVO. The amount of balancing work this would imply is gigantic and therefore, I'm against this idea. I will stick to remove buffs all together and add it as passive stat boost to let the game feel good for everyone without having to waste time begging for buffs or having to log 4 different chars (1 buffing account) every 15 minutes.

I would like to see a revamp of "buffs" design... with class specific buffs disappearing completely on hawker / dealer / soldier and Mages -> regrouping buffs into 2 skills only 1) attack 2) defence, giving those exclusively to clerics, party wide (no group wide) with a long CD (let's say 2 minutes) for a 10 sec duration. This would let cleric manage burst phases in PVE and PVP giving a very tactical role to the class without affecting the base game balance drastically.

Remember, we all want the game to come out, and forcing the team to go through a whole rebalancing of every skills for every class is not in our best interest!

 

1 hour ago, Charas said:

PVP with self buffs doesn't work / is not balanced in latest EVO. The amount of balancing work this would imply is gigantic and therefore, I'm against this idea. I will stick to remove buffs all together and add it as passive stat boost to let the game feel good for everyone without having to waste time begging for buffs or having to log 4 different chars (1 buffing account) every 15 minutes.

I would like to see a revamp of "buffs" design... with class specific buffs disappearing completely on hawker / dealer / soldier and Mages -> regrouping buffs into 2 skills only 1) attack 2) defence, giving those exclusively to clerics, party wide (no group wide) with a long CD (let's say 2 minutes) for a 10 sec duration. This would let cleric manage burst phases in PVE and PVP giving a very tactical role to the class without affecting the base game balance drastically.

Remember, we all want the game to come out, and forcing the team to go through a whole rebalancing of every skills for every class is not in our best interest!

That's practically exactly what im saying is remove buffs. Idk if you mean remove buff pots too? i think buff pots are fine and fair, i just think that having other classes being able to buff you is unfair and easily can be easily exploited by running multiple clients on other pc's  I'm not by any means forcing anybody to do anything i'm simply giving ideas towards a game mechanic in hopes to avoid certain scenarios and metas from happening again and giving them ideas on how to solve that. I disagree with the passives being an alternative to buffs i think it would just make the game even more unbalanced and classes more OP to make these buffs a passive you get all the time, should just be removed entirely rather than making every class feel as OP not having buffs. 

But thanks for your feedback!

[Nadwin]

One more extravagant solution...
Instead of having the cleric class, turn it into a witch/wizard class, specialized in debuffs, curses, and damage over time skills... and probably the ability to reduce potion effects on the targets.
And make Mages more focused on damage... w/o the debuffs, but keeping the 2 Stuns skills...

And for the buffs... instead of it coming from skills, it could come from the items... something like Path of Exile, but not that complex.
buffs could come from Jewels and secondary stats on items... and Artisans could even use a scroll to add a specific buff to the crafted item.
This opens the possibility to really have unique builds depending on the list of buffs the devs get into the game... 
 

[Averybee24601]

2 hours ago, Malak said:

To me, another solution would be to have the buff locked on the party players.  If the buff giver leaves a party, all the buffs he put on players from that party are removed too.

So cleric will still be a buffslave, but you just have to keep him there and potentially loosing another teammember on said party.
Another way to balance buffric would be around those :

 - Buffs are more aggressive but stay way less (thinking of seconds).  Something around that
 - Having a stat that modifies the duration of said buffs, making a balance between his power & his duration (you can't max both).

Just random toughts that surely requires more polishing but maybe interesting in the long run ?

 

I really like the idea of letting players choose between longer duration and stronger buffs thats a really good idea! although having them only in parties there would still be this unfair advantage and people will just stay in the party the whole time. i think a good idea maybe would be just to have them as PvE buffs and unable to be used as PVP but the caster/ owner of the buff gets to keep both benefits where as when placing the buff on other players they just get pvE benefits. cuz thats really where it becomes unfair to other players is when you factor in pvp. 

[Avatar]

10 minutes ago, Nadwin said:

One more extravagant solution...
Instead of having the cleric class, turn it into a witch/wizard class, specialized in debuffs, curses, and damage over time skills... and probably the ability to reduce potion effects on the targets.
And make Mages more focused on damage... w/o the debuffs, but keeping the 2 Stuns skills...

And for the buffs... instead of it coming from skills, it could come from the items... something like Path of Exile, but not that complex.
buffs could come from Jewels and secondary stats on items... and Artisans could even use a scroll to add a specific buff to the crafted item.
This opens the possibility to really have unique builds depending on the list of buffs the devs get into the game... 
 

Having the Witch/Wizard class would be dope.