Bobbity
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Posts posted by Bobbity
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Although clerics-in-training can level by themselves tolerably well enough, their exp gain isn't as much as other classes - and I'm okay with that. Class differentiation is real enough for our purposes. I don't mind them being at the bottom of the totem pole, as it were. Clerics shine late-game, as they should, and guilds should be fighting over a decent cleric with good timing, decent mana management, strong heals and mental fortitude (and maybe truly unique skills?)
What do you guys really want though? Do you want all classes to level at the same speed? Have the same strengths and weaknesses? Or do you just want clerics to "not suck"? Because clerics don't suck. Leveling a cleric might feel like a sub-optimum experience. You likely think, "well, this is where buffs come in, duh." No. This is where MASSIVE MULTIPLAYER ONLINE comes in. Play with friends. Help level the cleric in a party. If you want, clerics could gain bonus exp in parties through a hidden skill or the attribute they add the most (CHA? INT? SEN? I dunno these days.)
To understand what the cleric should do, you should look at the other classes as well. Classes should need each other to complete a major goal but not to level. I've said this part before but maybe I should've been more clear.
- Artisans right now don't level well, even with good gear. I'm okay with that MOSTLY. There are ways to make their leveling path more interesting, unique and profitable and I'll talk about that in a post I'll likely link here when I edit this one.
- Katars and hawkers tend to have a variable leveling experience, depending on if they're geared or not. At the same time this can be more interesting and fulfilling. See the above for a post I'll link on this topic.
- With the hp regen displays and calcs more reliable, leveling soldiers typically is stable and relaxing unless you have no idea what you're doing.
Guys, you really don't need dual client + buffslaves. You really don't. What you need is for the game to be interesting and engaging. You need the grind itself (the major component of the game) to be interesting, or at least not super-boring. You need your character to be strong enough and fast enough to get a decent amount of exp a day. You also want your character to be able to risk a higher exp gain without being instantly squished like a tomato dropped from Burj Khalifa.
How is this achieved?
- Additional mechanics (with high visibility) that force a choice on the player (with all routes of the choice being rewarding). We can't have a rigid metagame, a rigid playstyle that an actual bot could play (and play better than us!) I've seen players turn themselves into machines, performing the same action LITERALLY THOUSANDS OF TIMES. This is not an exaggeration. LITERALLY. THOUSANDS. Hundreds of thousands.
For example, there could be a choice between nuker (strong burst damage spells with relatively low cooldowns), right-click DPS hitter (high attack damage, high attack speed, high attack accuracy), summoner (either spawning minions on an ad hoc basis or focusing on leveling one specific minion over time, having them grow their abilities with you as you level) or pure full-support (no attack, only heal and... buff? Whatever.) Or a warlock debuffs and curses type. Whatever it is, it's diversity.
- Endgame goals for every class that are also diverse and not part of a fixed 'best practices' meta. The dev team is all about choice and diversity, so no worries.
- Other stuff
Honestly, there's a lot more involved here than a simple of to buff or not to buff. When we look at the big picture, buffs are a small component of the entire experience, not a gamebreaker.
Anyway, I know I've said some stuff badly again because I wrote this while falling asleep. I hope to come back to this later.
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Muses tend to use wands, so they have ranged magic dmg but their nukes are mediocre and deal flat dmg that doesn't scale to lategame. The more hp their enemies have, the worse off they all are. The heals are also pathetic. Muses die first or second, depending on if there's collusion. Hawker would win, of course. Earlygame hawkers tend to have a very slight positional advantage over katars or dualhanders.
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I don't have much of substance to say on this topic YET. I'll add a good bit more once certain things have been said by specific people in this thread, CRAKE's skill mechanics thread and simiapurpura's castle siege wars thread.
First, some context:
My experience differs from the majority of the community in that I enjoyed the long, slow grind. I didn't multiclient my main. I didn't solicit buffs, I didn't look for parties. I had a tiny little gun and I shot innocent monsters with it. When the enraged monsters tried to gut me for this unprovoked indignity, I'd take as many hits as I dared and then run away to heal up - then rinse and repeat. I looted materials to craft potions that could help me, ammo for my gun, armor I could either wear, sell or disassemble for making my own. I enjoyed it immensely. The thought that I was solely responsible for my growth, if only I was smart enough, skillful enough, brave enough, planned well enough was my driver.
My two major alts were muses: one, an FS and the other a BC. My FS ended up in a cozy little clan where the chief crafted me a beautiful offhand with excellent substats. I'd level with one or two of my clannies and some randoms and enjoy a nice social experience. All this time, my main spent a lifetime and more grinding for the same accessory from the same mob on Luna. For 2 years.
My experience doesn't trump that of others who lived by the buff and died by the buff. I enjoyed both lifestyles, both solitary living off the land and the one of social experiences. Hell, 2 of my clerics have a name meaning 'Party' in a non-English language. I'm proud to say that one of the best experiences I've ever had was being part of a multi-party group that leveled over 40 parties on Kenji Beach. I'm as proud of that as I am to have made it to level cap by my own efforts, using my own loot, crafting the solutions to my challenges and rising above them. And yet, my experiences gained from other games tell me I've walked a strangely artificial path. A lacking path. Things that could've been never were and I am mediocre.
Your problem is NOT whether clerics are OP. They are not and never truly were, except in combat as finely-tuned BCs. (There are people better than me in terms of mechanics that can explain this.) Your problem is with the mechanics available to clerics AND ALL THE OTHER CLASSES such that each class is truly DIFFERENTIATED.
A raider should have natural competitive advantage in their field. They should be the best at what they do, and what they do isn't nice.
Similarly, we have to identify what clerics SHOULD be best at. Don't just cling to the past and say "buffs". This is not a useful answer. Buffs are skills; they don't describe a purpose or a competitive advantage. What is a full-support cleric meant to BE? If your answer always gravitates towards "pa buff po" then, my dear Visitors, your problem lies in the game ROSE Online itself. Rush On Seven Hearts. There are hundreds of different mechanics and skillsets lazy and team could implement, given time and understanding. We should be moving past the nostalgic intoxicating drug of buffing newbies into superhumans and into making ROSE a game that engages and involves by its very design. Drugs are as destructive as they are fun, people.
We demigods formed by Arua's divine Love and our own will to be in that universe, are as deficient in our purpose as we are lacking in our lore.
I recommend you start fixing there.
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While on paper giving artisans repair abilities sounds awesome, we should be careful of turning them into some sort of "da3m aljami3" Omnisupport class. Right now, an artisan is the only class that can give (almost) all the available buffs via buff potions. They can craft gems that increase combat stats, reinforced and endowed armor, directly improve weapons for a specific attribute (ATK, ACC, AS, MP consumption etc.) Obviously, they're constrained by loot, time, effort and available skill points. Additionally, many artisans retire from field combat and focus just on crafting. Having said that, we don't want to force a support meta onto artisans as we used to have for clerics. I think a good 60% of the playerbase was unaware that clerics needed nothing for combat, and it was the meta forced upon them that weakened their capabilities.
So, TL;DR: I welcome a Repair skill but we should be mindful of balance.
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On 1/13/2022 at 3:32 AM, Trebor said:
about if your head goes underwater, and if you don't have a snorkel on, your HP will start going down?
Why should be be able to run or drive fast through water when it will actually slow a person or vehicle in real life. No one can breath underwater either, so a snorkel would need to be worn on the character to keep breathing.
The slow is a good idea and we should think about how aquatic combat would work. Good idea; I like it. I feel like the drowning mechanic would work fine on planets controlled by Hebarn, not all water in general. This can add another wrinkle to the Arua vs Hebarn War, new combat factors never before seen! Why do I say this? Visitors are souls taken from the Sea of Souls by Arua Herself and given amortal bodies. We 'die' but respawn endlessly. We use mana and grow stronger by absorbing 'experience' (the souls of our fallen enemies?) We suffer neither hunger nor thirst. We don't even bleed normally. Basically, we're gods. There's no reason for us to drown in regular water. That said, remember that Arua can barely manifest safely on the friendly planet of Junon. Accordingly, even our divinity must have limits.
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SUGGESTION: Allow characters to be named with spacing and even additional formatting
Based on previous updates, this suggestion is likely to already be on the list of 'things to implement' so this might be redundant. I reckon it's worth highlighting though.
PROS:
-Never-before seen quality of life improvement to player immersion.
-Greater variety of character names
CONS:
-May require longer development time than anticipated
-???
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Just realized that if we were taken from the Sea of Souls, it makes sense to arrive at Junon on a boat. Lots of great memories of the first map. as well.
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There are actually quite a few good spots for that on Luna. Junon also has a few random buildings that by implication serve as 'places where monsters come from'. Some of those (Anima Lake, Forest of Wisdom, Goblin Caves) can be instanced mini-dungeons too.
Good idea!
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I reckon we could have an auction house/consignment house for controlled goods like super-rare Epics or cosmetics. Why not both?
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For the purposes of PvP, you might want this to be confidential info, though. In town, this should be fine, since this info is available in groups as well. Whoever wants to hide their info in town could buy something that obscures that info.
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Emotes might be easier to develop than costumes, definitely something a player on a Battle Pass could play towards.
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Suggestion:
Cast range increase: Add 3 meters to Sniping's cast range per skill level learned
Cooldown increase: Add 5 seconds to the cooldown.
Status change: Have the skill deal guaranteed critical damage.
If Sniping has, for example, 9 skill levels with a maximum cast range of 30 meters, the new Sniping would be effective at 33 meters at level 1 and 57 meters at level 9.
The cooldown would also go from 6 seconds at all level to 11 seconds. This includes the casting time.
PROS:
-Sniping would fit the theme of the skill name and skill tree.
-Dealers can deal more reliable damage in battle without instantly being discovered. However, avoiding death would still be reliant on their ability to find cover.
-Supplements - does not replace - the effectiveness of their mid-range attack skills.
-Adds to a potential fortification-based playstyle. A Sniper would have to move to find better cover after firing. But should you follow the Sniper? Maybe there are traps! You don't know!
CONS:
-Sniping would be less available in PvP / not be spammable.
-Requires changing some skill values that haven't been changed in forever
-.... (other stuff I can't think of right now, let me know what else goes here)
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The following proposes a small tweak to Alchemy Craft that has continuous benefits for vertical progression as well as some benefits for PvP and other end-game content.
Currently, Level 1 Alchemy Craft can craft some HP and MP potions, a basic grenade and flash grenade (single-target ACC down consumable), a box of bone arrows, a box of iron bullets and crates of aforesaid HP/MP vials.
Firstly, there's no reason crafting iron shells shouldn't be an option alongside iron bullets. This makes launcher-wielding Dealers a bit more independent and frees up some space in their backpack. Also, please adjust the ACC down debuff from flash grenades to be extended by 1.5 seconds. This would match the time it takes a Dealer to execute another skill or to run out of aggro range.
Secondly, being able to craft mines could offer Dealers a very strong addition to their current playstyle. Mines are consumable small invisible ground-placeable semi-permanent units that damage and debuff nearby enemies when self-destructing on contact. The range of contact should be around 3.5m, slightly greater than melee attack range. Units use the Dealer's summon gauge and disappear in PvP when the Dealer dies or leaves the arena instance. Whether this happens when the Dealer dies in the open-world map is up for debate. Availability of crafting ingredients naturally limits the strength of this addition (via loot and zulie), preventing overpowered strats. Ingredients would be similar to grenades.
Being able to use mines and even later stationary True Sight items like sentries (an evolution of the basic mines for the endgame Dealer) to detect and counter assassinating katars could also be a unique but not overpowered PvP playstyle, depending on the implementation. Anyone who has ever played in similar ways in games like RUST and Dota should be able to easily understand the mental metagame involved that adds another layer to PvP combat. For players who are unfamiliar with this style of combat, feel free to message me with your questions outside of the forum.Thirdly, could we have another basic crafting recipe to convert gunpowder to gunpowder packets (maybe gunpowder and a cloth-type material?). This gives Dealers even greater independence by converting looted items almost directly into ammo and ordnance. Every potentially impactful decision a Dealer has to make, especially regarding looted materials (toss or keep?) makes their experience more meaningful and enjoyable.
Lastly, I'd like to propose a radical addition known as a Fire. This would be another consumable crafted from coal, wood and metal. When consumed, the 'fire' spawns a temporary fire-model unit (the one seen in Goblin Caves and Desert of the Dead, not the Bonfire model of Muses) on the ground that gives a flat and percentage (scaling) bonus to CON for nearby allied units. This relates to an endgame goal for Artisans called a Forge that isn't the currently useless Castle Gear.
Please consider the above seriously, especially the iron shells and mines crafting. Thank you for your consideration.
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On 2/6/2022 at 7:51 PM, Minkja said:
I'll have to echo others and say that water having zero effect on movement was one of the things I loved. I wouldn't have it any other way haha
I reckon we could have some deep water where swimming/floating/being slowed by water could be a thing, e.g. Sunshine Coast. It could lead to some interesting fights if you're hunting treasure in the deeps and both your as and ms are slowed.
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All the creatures of Orlo (The snakes, devourers, snappers and mastyx) are my favorite and aren't on the list. Having said that, I'm very close to the antares in DoD just because they're pacifists in an area soaked in evil energies.
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This is useful but not interesting. It also encourages turning 'support' classes into bots. That's one of the reasons we had the buffs taken from clerics.
To add value to crafting, make getting to this point of being able to batch craft harder, as in it requires some sort of zulie and time investment. Imagine saving up to buy a smithy or build a factory/manufactory, similar to player housing on jRose. From that point, you own the means of mass production and are a level above crafters that can only craft artisanally.
At the same time we can look at making single-item 'artisanal' crafting more interesting and valuable. Dealers have CON as their main attribute, so spending more time focusing on crafting one item should offer more non-random options and deliver greater rewards than mass production.
I'm glad this conversation's finally happened, as I've talked about batch crafting for a good long while now.
What you will do with bots. (plox implement some ;D)
in Suggestions
Posted
^Good suggestions. I'll add another: have mobs move as a result of weather effects which, in turn, are a result of skill overuse used in that map and adjacent maps. Water skill usage could eventually result in rain, drawing hordes of mobs to drink, wind skill overuse could result in hurricanes, scattering flocks of mobs across the map outwardly (and damage players), arcane spell abuse could result in players losing their mana much quicker, fire spells could cause wildfires and damage over time.