Revert the Buff Changes Yes/No

[TheShredr]

1 minute ago, Majestic said:

if you played like me for over 10 years the one class you really liked and get that change to your face you probably rant too
or it will interpreted as a rant and thats why im saying that i guess the majority dont see the mess it will cause
and the few that voted yes can actually see how bad its going to get and doesn't need "a try" to prove themselves corrected sir

I also ROSE for over 10 years and always hated the 'buff slave' aspect (or the building a seperate character for an AFK purpose only) of this game! So maybe there are more voices than just yours and of your followers. It is fine to share your opinion, as do I, but you are disqualifying every other opinion to be dumb or not valid.

[Majestic]

8 minutes ago, TheShredr said:

I also ROSE for over 10 years and always hated the 'buff slave' aspect (or the building a seperate character for an AFK purpose only) of this game! So maybe there are more voices than just yours and of your followers. It is fine to share your opinion, as do I, but you are disqualifying every other opinion to be dumb or not valid.

and u welcome to say whatever its in your heart
but as i said before you dont need to hurt other people fun and expericne just to please you and your followers
there was enough suggestions how to balance cleric and "solve" whats not need to be solved buff slave issue without removing his buff and purpose of been a support class
and saying slave slave slave is ranting also..... so dont play the support cleric class choose other class bro put skill points on other skills
why smacking cleric's name class as a support and purpose for the sake of getting rid of the buff slave stigma
i love it and there is alot of other players that like it
and with that u like forcing to create 4 classes buff slave
what a blast

Edited December 5, 2022 by Majestic

[darthtomski]

I'm willing to give the changes a chance despite generally enjoying the cleric as it was (I played as a cleric main). I hope they've given the cleric something else because if we've just been stripped of our main purpose and no further adjustments have been made then this change will destroy the class. I'm also not 100% sure this change won't just make all classes buff slaves in a sense. I can easily imagine min-maxers having one of each class to get all the buffs as before but we wont know for sure until we're all trying them out.

It seems to me Rednim have demonstrated willingness to revert changes or change course when it seems necessary which gives me faith they will do what needs to be done for the good of the whole game.

I'm hoping the changes work out well and I will see you all on launch day to find out

[Loerslang]

7 minutes ago, Majestic said:

i wish it was just one change
but that change as you see affected all classes now so they are mid buffers making them buff slaves whats the point in that sir?
so all the other commetns are nonsense and the majority with open mind are just and right?
and we are the cry babies?
we know what we love we know how nostalgia is important
and you dont need to hurt one class to please those people and hurt other people
there was lots of suggestion for cleric how to make it good without removing buffs from him

First of all, please read back my comments and search for the part where i called you a crybaby. Because i can't find it
So please don't say i'm calling anyone anything. I am here to have a normal conversation about upcoming changes in a normal way! 
The thing is, how can you be so 100% sure that it will be so bad that the entire game will be destroyed? The question that i get with that is; Have you already tried playing with the new changes? Have you already hit max level with the new changes and thus seen most of the game with the new changes? 
If not, i think you can't be 100% sure that everything is destroyed am i right? First, things need to be tested and played. If it works out, it works out. If it doesn't work out, the changes can always be reverted. 
Besides that, i want to mention again that changes will always be made to whichever game there is on this planet, and that in Rednim's case it is never the intention of the Dev's to hurt people. They work hard and try their very best to come up with solutions to make it as much as fun possible for everyone! 

[Majestic]

12 minutes ago, Loerslang said:

First of all, please read back my comments and search for the part where i called you a crybaby. Because i can't find it
So please don't say i'm calling anyone anything. I am here to have a normal conversation about upcoming changes in a normal way! 
The thing is, how can you be so 100% sure that it will be so bad that the entire game will be destroyed? The question that i get with that is; Have you already tried playing with the new changes? Have you already hit max level with the new changes and thus seen most of the game with the new changes? 
If not, i think you can't be 100% sure that everything is destroyed am i right? First, things need to be tested and played. If it works out, it works out. If it doesn't work out, the changes can always be reverted. 
Besides that, i want to mention again that changes will always be made to whichever game there is on this planet, and that in Rednim's case it is never the intention of the Dev's to hurt people. They work hard and try their very best to come up with solutions to make it as much as fun possible for everyone! 

there was multiple suggestions sir about cleric ranting stigma "buff slave"
why am i sure? cuz i played it over 10 years cause i know its core
cause i fall in love with his mechanics and control when he was level 10 to max 250 and after that helping newbies giving them knowledge
bringing more new players to the game and explaining them how it works
and i dont need to play to level 250 with new changes to know its bad my friend... you are KILLING A CLASS CALLED SUPPORT thats what he is supposed to do
to support heal buff bonefire and any player is welcome to take other path and choose other skills for him like battle cleric
but bro you remove his entire soul and purpose of his job! taking stripping away all of his buffs and making by that progress slower cuz dam i need to find some hawker in town to buff me with some speed or whatever buff you need instead looking for 1 class to buff me i need to find 4
and making them "buff slaves"
you can read all other non mainstream comments and decide for yourself if there is sense in it or not

Edited December 5, 2022 by Majestic

[Critpeak]

What I can't understand is, why you want change when you actually don't play cleric? If you consider cleric a buff slave, just don't play with it. 

Big no for magev2.

EDIT:
If you don't want buffs, you can always grind without them, just don't vouch to rest not having them too. Considering how awfully are buffs divided now, you have achieved your dream - you won't have buffs and you ruined the gameplay for many other people which enjoy having buffs.

 

Edited December 5, 2022 by Critpeak

[Loerslang]

6 minutes ago, Majestic said:

there was multiple suggestions sir about cleric ranting stigma "buff slave"
why am i sure? cuz i played it over 10 years cause i know its core
cause i fall in love with his mechanics and control when he was level 10 to max 250 and after that helping newbies giving them knowledge
bringing more new players to the game and explaining them how it works
and i dont need to play to level 250 with new changes to know its bad my friend... you are KILLING A CLASS CALLED SUPPORT thats what he is supposed to do
to support heal buff bonefire and any player is welcome to take other path and choose other skills for him like battle cleric
but bro you remove his entire soul and purpose of his job! taking stripping away all of his buffs and making by that progress slower cuz dam i need to find some hawker in town to buff me with some speed or whatever buff you need instead looking for 1 class to buff me i need to find 4
and making them "buff slaves"
you can read all other non mainstream comments and decide for yourself if there is sense in it or not

Seems like there is no possibility for a normal conversation unfortunately. Too bad.
Can't wait until 13 december to make my characters (including cleric which i have played a lot) and dive into this wonderful game  
Maybe we'll meet in-game, or maybe not  
Anyway, i wish you a good time till release day!

[Majestic]

7 minutes ago, Loerslang said:

Seems like there is no possibility for a normal conversation unfortunately. Too bad.
Can't wait until 13 december to make my characters (including cleric which i have played a lot) and dive into this wonderful game  
Maybe we'll meet in-game, or maybe not  
Anyway, i wish you a good time till release day!

i respect your comments but this is my comment too and it is normal to disagree.... there is nothing to add its a BIG NO for me and i disklike this change

Edited December 5, 2022 by Majestic

[TheShredr]

Let me describe the situations as it was and how it is now (in my interpretation). So the people voting YES, want situation 1 back. People voting NO are open to evaluate situation 2 and give feedback on what they experience:

Situation 1 - Previously

• Cleric had all the buffs available
• All classes had their own specific class buffs available, which were stronger with full buff build
• No client limitation

Pro's:

• Full support Cleric had all the buffs available
• Not reliant on other players for having all the buffs.

Cons:

• To have 1 char with all the buffs available you needed a Cleric.
• To have best possible buffs available you needed a buffer of every class with a special buff build.

Conclusion:

Everyone who doesn't main a Cleric, has to either build one to not be reliant on the available buffs, or build all 4 classes with full buff build for the best available buffs.

-----------------

Situation 2 - Current

• All classes have their own specific class buffs available
• 2 client limitation

Cons:

• To have best possible buffs available you needed a buffer of every class with a special buff build.
• Cleric mains who loved to support, do no longer have all buffs available and can only support through healing.
• Without workaround, reliant on other players for full buffs.

Conclusion:

To be able to have all buffs available, you need a buffer of every class. This isn't easily achievable by yourself with the 2 client limitation (with some workaround of login buffers you could level around 12 minutes with all buffs all by yourself).

-----------------

So my question is what do we want to achieve (or what does Rednim want)? Do we want class builds purely for getting the best possible buffs? Do we want to encourage playing with others and therefore make people reliant on others?

PS: please tell me if I missed any info regarding the situations, pro's, cons or in the conclusions.

 

Edited December 5, 2022 by TheShredr

[Critpeak]

4 minutes ago, TheShredr said:

Let me describe the situations as it was and how it is now (in my interpretation). So the people voting YES, want situation 1 back. People voting NO are open to evaluate situation 2 and give feedback on what they experience:

Situation 1 - Previously

• Cleric had all the buffs available
• All classes had their own specific class buffs available, which were stronger with full buff build
• No client limitation

Pro's:

• Full support Cleric had all the buffs available
• Not reliant on other players for having all the buffs.

Cons:

• To have 1 char with all the buffs available you needed a Cleric.
• To have best possible buffs available you needed a buffer of every class with a special buff build.

Conclusion:

Everyone who doesn't main a Cleric, has to either build one to not be reliant on the available buffs, or build all 4 classes with full buff build for the best available buffs.

-----------------

Situation 2 - Current

• All classes had their own specific class buffs available
• 2 client limitation

Cons:

• To have best possible buffs available you needed a buffer of every class with a special buff build.
• Cleric mains who loved to support, do no longer have all buffs available and can only support through healing.
• Without workaround, reliant on other players for full buffs.

Conclusion:

To be able to have all buffs available, you need a buffer of every class. This isn't easily achievable by yourself with the 2 client limitation (with some workaround of login buffers you could level around 12 minutes with all buffs all by yourself).

-----------------

So my question is what do we want to achieve (or what does Rednim want)? Do we want class builds purely for getting the best possible buffs? Do we want to encourage playing with others and therefore make people reliant on others?

PS: please tell me if I missed any info regarding the situations, pro's, cons or in the conclusions.

 

What you just have said is that removing buffs from cleric, doesn't solve the "buff slave" problem.

It only destroys one of the 8 classes. Good job. 

[TheShredr]

Just now, Critpeak said:

What you just have said is that removing buffs from cleric, doesn't solve the "buff slave" problem.

And I never stated that it did.

[Critpeak]

Indeed you did:

Instead of having one support class with ultimately lower grade buffs, you now need to have all classes.

Edited December 5, 2022 by Critpeak

[TheShredr]

Come on, do I really have to explain my words?

You say: 'What you just have said is that removing buffs from cleric, doesn't solve the "buff slave" problem.'

I say: 'And I never stated that it did.'

Meaning, I never said that removing buffs from cleric solves the 'buff slave' problem.

Edited December 5, 2022 by TheShredr

[Critpeak]

Come on lad, read carefully what I've said and what you've quoted.

9 minutes ago, Critpeak said:

doesn't solve the "buff slave" problem.

 

 

[Daemon]

2 hours ago, Critpeak said:

If you consider cleric a buff slave, just don't play with it. 

And here you fail to see the real root of the problem. With cleric being a buff slave, you essentially HAVE to play it if you don't have anyone else to play with, because buffs are such an essential part of the (late) game.

[Critpeak]

And you fail to see that is not a solution to have 500mspeed up to level 250 if you want to play solo.

If you want to play solo:

You are disregarded, you won't have attack speed, attack power, dodge, crit rate, hit rate, mspeed - nothing!

Current solution is aside from leveling the cleric, you would need to level atleast 2 more classes the same time. That is if you want to have normal rose experience which rose used to provide. Great improvement.

EDIT:

@Daemon or you suggest we grind from level 1 to 250 with the same turtle pace?

 

So far everyone who is against cleric is saying: I don't want to level a cleric - so remove it's buffs, so others won't have them too.

There is no improvement in leveling - what kind of improvement is if you kill lvl 140 monster with 10k hp for 30seconds?

Edited December 5, 2022 by Critpeak

[Luckystriike]

2 minutes ago, Critpeak said:

And you fail to see that is not a solution to have 500mspeed up to level 250 if you want to play solo.

If you want to play solo:

You are disregarded, you won't have attack speed, attack power, dodge, crit rate, hit rate, mspeed - nothing!

Current solution is aside from leveling the cleric, you would need to level atleast 2 more classes the same time. That is if you want to have normal rose experience which rose used to provide. Great improvement.

Going live solo Cleric leveling --> https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1670110367

Edited December 5, 2022 by Luckystriike

[Critpeak]

1 minute ago, Luckystriike said:

Going live solo Cleric leveling --> https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1670110367

Dude be real, everyone who played rose, know even with how rose used to be it's not hard to solo any class without any buffs up to lvl 90.

[Majestic]

people need to wake up and stop with this mantra stigma buff slave buff slave
you dont want to play it dont play it why ruin this fun of support class to others??
by removing its whole purpose of existence that he was created for since day 1
you dont like it? just dont play it leave it to us to play it and have our own fun as we like
dont break this class into pieces and fraction turning him into a puppet of your own liking
it was great and unique as it was.... and you can alter his skills and play it otherwise or just make another toon another class other job
dont ruin support class and leave him to be heal bot

Edited December 5, 2022 by Majestic

[TheShredr]

1 hour ago, TheShredr said:

Let me describe the situations as it was and how it is now (in my interpretation). So the people voting YES, want situation 1 back. People voting NO are open to evaluate situation 2 and give feedback on what they experience:

Situation 1 - Previously

• Cleric had all the buffs available
• All classes had their own specific class buffs available, which were stronger with full buff build
• No client limitation

Pro's:

• Full support Cleric had all the buffs available
• Not reliant on other players for having all the buffs.

Cons:

• To have 1 char with all the buffs available you needed a Cleric.
• To have best possible buffs available you needed a buffer of every class with a special buff build.

Conclusion:

Everyone who doesn't main a Cleric, has to either build one to not be reliant on the available buffs, or build all 4 classes with full buff build for the best available buffs.

-----------------

Situation 2 - Current

• All classes have their own specific class buffs available
• 2 client limitation

Cons:

• To have best possible buffs available you needed a buffer of every class with a special buff build.
• Cleric mains who loved to support, do no longer have all buffs available and can only support through healing.
• Without workaround, reliant on other players for full buffs.

Conclusion:

To be able to have all buffs available, you need a buffer of every class. This isn't easily achievable by yourself with the 2 client limitation (with some workaround of login buffers you could level around 12 minutes with all buffs all by yourself).

-----------------

So my question is what do we want to achieve (or what does Rednim want)? Do we want class builds purely for getting the best possible buffs? Do we want to encourage playing with others and therefore make people reliant on others?

PS: please tell me if I missed any info regarding the situations, pro's, cons or in the conclusions.

 

Still very curious what other people think of this and if it is accurate!? And what your answer to the question would be.

Edited December 5, 2022 by TheShredr

[Critpeak]

It must not be 100% focused @TheShredr .

Whoever wants to solo play using two clients - should be able to.

Whoever wants to search for parties - should be able to.

Buffs existed before, and there were still parties formed, and those who wanted to grind solo - were also able to do it with their own cleric.

A lot of people had clerics because they wanted to be able to play wherever whenever the want.

Now you are FORCING people to play ONE particular gameplay.

[SteveOmaha]

So most of y'all have given up already and won't be playing in a week?  Act like you've been around gaming before.  Things change.  Changes revert and/or are amended.  The process is on-going and nothing new.

[Forestwithin]

1 hour ago, SteveOmaha said:

So most of y'all have given up already and won't be playing in a week?  Act like you've been around gaming before.  Things change.  Changes revert and/or are amended.  The process is on-going and nothing new.

Yeah and i bet the ones complaining now saying they wont play still will be there at launch. 
I dont get it, why do they even complain instead of just waiting for release to try everything out? 

[hjvg]

3 hours ago, Luckystriike said:

Going live solo Cleric leveling --> https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1670110367

its a muse build as a mage

3 hours ago, Critpeak said:

Dude be real, everyone who played rose, know even with how rose used to be it's not hard to solo any class without any buffs up to lvl 90.

yea the lvl`s he is doing atm is still the easy part job does not matter much but the char is build as a mage. but he calls it cleric.


how do you expect people that need to be active in fighting to get till the point he can do dungeon or raid to then just stand still and only heal as heal slaves for the party?
a cleric was supporting from lvl 10 till endgame so you where alrso focused on your party members to give them buffs or heal when needed. but with this new build you need to be focused on killing mobs on a cleric till the moment other people need you somewhere to heal.


i i think i know why the vote has no`s then yes as the people that where just using the cleric as leecher and let it stand afk think we have to lvl 1 char less becasue i want all fighter classes and i am not going to heal in a dungeon anyway so i dont care 1 char less to lvl
the people that vote yes are mostly the people that played the cleric as main char whitch where ofcourse already less people.

yes i will probley be logging in ingame when its online. but as far as i have seen today on the live stream i dont think it will be long till i am done with my muse wannebe cleric and then the game is done for me aswell.

and yes they can change it after its live but i am not going to wait a half a year till the change and a full server reset has been done as the change is so big that it can not be added with out a whipe or at least everyone needs a stat and skill reset when a change like this is inplented after being live

 

Edited December 5, 2022 by hjvg

[erko]

I have a open mind for the changes, let us try and if it's no good - I'm sure the developers will take action and change back/fix it.