CLERIC TO SURVIVE THE GAME?

[Garnet]

1 hour ago, Critpeak said:

This is my last post in this forum, 

regarding everyone who want features from other games added, and crying about that they don't want to level a cleric because of this and that.

1. The whole game and every single monster above lvl 70 is build around cleric having it's core buffs.

2. Vouching for something you saw in another mmorpg is pitiful - this is ROSE, no need to add trash features from another game - if you want it just play that game, and leave rose to true ROSE players.

3. Current dismantle of cleric and redistribution it's buffs to other classes - makes pvp ONE SIDED and completely UNBALANCED.

4. Devs so far close all the topics considering cleric changes that majority of opinions is AGAINST their decision - which means nothing is going to change, they'll wait for people to reach 100-120-140lvl start complaining, go back to HOW IS MEANT TO BE, but by that time, most people will be bored and leave.

5. When you want to start a game which is supremely difficult to maintain, don't repeat the bad decisions which lead to it's end. 

- Changing something that is already there doesn't cut it - you have to bring something new, not remodeling, painting, and graphic change.

6. People who stream lvl 30muse with magician build -SHOULD NOT BE ALLOWED to say that is easy to level a CLERIC, what they show it's nothing near the truth.

7. Everyone is laughing at private servers, but the truth is there are private servers, with a ton of people running for years - one specific server is running for 15 years, maybe you should check how far they've developed and build on top of that instead.

8. No matter what you are saying, taken upon your words, not having complete reset - this is the actual launch of the game, naming it early access is just a backup plan so you have something to say when you finally figured you screwed up - but considering that majority of players who play rose - have played it for decades, and know how things go - you probably won't have a second chance.

9. When you open forum for discussions - don't lock every topic that is not convenient to you, you either live with it or just don't waste peoples time.

Progress comes from criticism and pointing out mistakes - not from fake ass lickers. We have few people repeating same thing in the forum, just to oppose the opinions they don't like, no matter if they are backed up with facts. Both in forum and discord.

10. Good luck with this rosewanabee project, and big thanks to the team for the disappointment delivered, I'd rather return playing in a private server, than losing months of my time to some non sense. 

11. Have fun to all players - cleric oriented players - go for mage, magev2 sucks.

As for PVP oriented players - hawkers are the way to go, at least before they nerf them to "balance" the game.

What the point to post this and quit. But i'm sure you will read it so here we go:

1. Whatever that's the case or not (spoiler: no) good for you if you think that's normal, we think not.

2. I have zero clue what you are talking about.

3. Thanks to warn us but we are not completely stupid you know, of course we will have to balance it this is what Early-Access is for.

4. ONE thread by one of us got closed and the reason has been pretty munch explained: stop flooding the forum and the discord about cleric buff, the only thing you are doing is spreding toxicity over the game and influence the opinion that the changes are bad while you didn't even touch the game. So until you played EA and give us proper feedback to make the game BETTER, whatever how munch you create threads and flood our medias that wont change anything and we wont listen. Also you admit that we are enough open to "go back how is meant to be" if at some point we realize we are wrong wich is good, but that's not enough for you, what do you want exactly, a perfect game straight at early-access opening? Sorry that wont happen. Also do you know what is Early-Access???

5. You only say this because of the cleric changes. We literally went over those decision according to the community (p2w, runes, king too strong, refine, etc etc) and we will continue to do it. Also there is an interesting faq that you can read about our plans of literally everything you have said. Of course cleric will require so complex digging to make it shine but i don't know what i'm talking about it since you don't care anyway.

6. So you are saying to players how to play Cleric now? Who stated that you are forbidden to use offensive skills as Cleric? Did you ever hear about Battle Cleric? Do you even know what is War Cleric? Yea, true ROSE player for sure.

7. We perfectly know everything that is happening and developped around us.

8. Ah yes here we go so i really have to explain it finally: early-access is just another name for BETA. Do i need to explain what is a BETA too? The reason why we didn't stated it as release is because we are not satisfied with the current state of the game and because we want the game enough good to be enjoyable to new players, wich is not the case for now. But to reach this point it will still require months of work and the community is tired waiting. So we decided to open the game earlier to the community so players can enjoy playing ROSE again while we make it better. That's why there is no Steam release for now too. The game is not enough good yet to be shown to the world.

9. See 5, also you are the one that make me waste my time actually so a little advice: try tempering your nerves next time rather than throwing a text full of rage for no reason.

10. Your welcome, enjoy your Buff Fairy near Mildun and don't forget to vote.

[SteveOmaha]

14 minutes ago, Majestic said:

thats what makes cleric wanted and welcomed
and bro i was a soldier before cleric
and i never had any problem to level up without a cleric
everyone in party used their on self buff and we manage perfectly
later on higer level yes we needed a cleric nothing wrong with that
cuz cleric buffs are effective only on higher levels 180-200
after u finish a bit to max the skills

and now everyone buffs?? ITS A JOKE MAN ITS A MESS

Dude chill.  If you're going to play this game you'll make friends just the same as if your were needed as a full buff cleric.  No need to worry about the "forced" companionship.

Clerics had buffs removed and some started whining about the change but I haven't really seen any whining about their class having buffs added to their skill trees.  Skill point usage will have to be adjusted across all builds now.  Simply a new challenge.

[Majestic]

3 minutes ago, SteveOmaha said:

Clerics had buffs removed and some started whining about the change but I haven't really seen any whining about their class having buffs added to their skill trees.  Skill point usage will have to be adjusted across all builds now.  Simply a new challenge.

you mean new mess? lol
as i said with respect lets agree to disagree my friend peace and love everything is ok
i cant be at peace with this change i loved the cleric as it was
and lets see after EA what devs think

[hjvg]

1 hour ago, L3nn0x said:

I don't think it was fine before though? You had to play with buffs on to be able to level up otherwise you'd just die & it'd take forever. So you had to level up a cleric at the same time, or have a friend playing cleric, or ask for buffs in Junon before going xp. You couldn't realistically play without a cleric. Our idea with the change was to make clerics less preponderant in the game. They're still required at high level in raids & dungeons, but you don't need to have one to level up as a casual player anymore.

But the buffs are not gone so as sayed bevore by others did removing buffs from cleric fix the problem of releying on buffs i think not as they are just moved to multiple chars

1 hour ago, L3nn0x said:

they're still required at high level in raids & dungeons, but you don't need to have one to level up as a casual player anymore.

but people chooche a class because of there play style and yes i understand the plan is to have them needed in raids and dungeons. 
But i got the feeling that the new expectation for clerics is that they will make a fighting char of it to lvl (so almost a mage) and its a question how many people want to have chars like that in a party as a main class fighter will be in 90% of the casses be stronger so faster leveling.

but then when we are at the end content the clerics that have made it suddenly need to change there play style again from fighting to supporting to keep party`s alive. thats the thing i find strange about it.
there is no other class that i know that need to change there build/play style when reacing the end content

1 hour ago, Garnet said:

5. You only say this because of the cleric changes. We literally went over those decision according to the community (p2w, runes, king too strong, refine, etc etc) and we will continue to do it. Also there is an interesting faq that you can read about our plans of literally everything you have said. Of course cleric will require so complex digging to make it shine but i don't know what i'm talking about it since you don't care anyway.

so kings have been made easyer as well? some people that support the changes are using but heal is needed for kings as well and there you can already be active as support but if i understand this correct they got nerved as well so they could be done easyer with out a cleric aswell


edit:

i have sayed bevore i will check the changes ingame but this is my feeling atm. and i will post my feeling when seeing it ingame as well. but atm the streams of clerics (sayed to be clerics) i have seen atm does not give me much hope my feeling about this topic will change alot but we will see

Edited December 6, 2022 by hjvg

[Loerslang]

1 hour ago, Garnet said:

What the point to post this and quit. But i'm sure you will read it so here we go:

1. Whatever that's the case or not (spoiler: no) good for you if you think that's normal, we think not.

2. I have zero clue what you are talking about.

3. Thanks to warn us but we are not completely stupid you know, of course we will have to balance it this is what Early-Access is for.

4. ONE thread by one of us got closed and the reason has been pretty munch explained: stop flooding the forum and the discord about cleric buff, the only thing you are doing is spreding toxicity over the game and influence the opinion that the changes are bad while you didn't even touch the game. So until you played EA and give us proper feedback to make the game BETTER, whatever how munch you create threads and flood our medias that wont change anything and we wont listen. Also you admit that we are enough open to "go back how is meant to be" if at some point we realize we are wrong wich is good, but that's not enough for you, what do you want exactly, a perfect game straight at early-access opening? Sorry that wont happen. Also do you know what is Early-Access???

5. You only say this because of the cleric changes. We literally went over those decision according to the community (p2w, runes, king too strong, refine, etc etc) and we will continue to do it. Also there is an interesting faq that you can read about our plans of literally everything you have said. Of course cleric will require so complex digging to make it shine but i don't know what i'm talking about it since you don't care anyway.

6. So you are saying to players how to play Cleric now? Who stated that you are forbidden to use offensive skills as Cleric? Did you ever hear about Battle Cleric? Do you even know what is War Cleric? Yea, true ROSE player for sure.

7. We perfectly know everything that is happening and developped around us.

8. Ah yes here we go so i really have to explain it finally: early-access is just another name for BETA. Do i need to explain what is a BETA too? The reason why we didn't stated it as release is because we are not satisfied with the current state of the game and because we want the game enough good to be enjoyable to new players, wich is not the case for now. But to reach this point it will still require months of work and the community is tired waiting. So we decided to open the game earlier to the community so players can enjoy playing ROSE again while we make it better. That's why there is no Steam release for now too. The game is not enough good yet to be shown to the world.

9. See 5, also you are the one that make me waste my time actually so a little advice: try tempering your nerves next time rather than throwing a text full of rage for no reason.

10. Your welcome, enjoy your Buff Fairy near Mildun and don't forget to vote.

Spoken like a god! Hope these cleric hate discussions will dissapear soon because there are many other fun things to discuss about on the forum! (For example a Launch party at Adventure Plains ). This topic is just pure toxicity unfortunately.… would be nice to see other topics florish! 
 

I can’t wait till EA! Hope time will go a little bit faster until 13th december, and nice and slow after that so that there is a lot of time to spend in-game

[asaa]

I don’t understand why people want to have the old clerics in a new game. It’s honestly toxic as heck to make the whole game revolve around one class (cleric giving out all the buffs). Why would people want to play a game that requires two windows or be screwed unless they get buffed by someone else who owns a max buff cleric? 
 

Personally, I think all the buffs should be consumables and have easy access by all classes or have an NPC that gives out 2 hour buffs every couple of minutes in every major city.

Or better yet, remove all the buffs and scale the game without buffs so that you don’t have to seek buffs to play the game…

People like me just want to get on, play, level up, clear stuff without tabbing through multiple clients or spam “buffs pls” in a major city.

[Majestic]

28 minutes ago, X15 said:

I don’t understand why people want to have the old clerics in a new game. It’s honestly toxic as heck to make the whole game revolve around one class (cleric giving out all the buffs). Why would people want to play a game that requires two windows or be screwed unless they get buffed by someone else who owns a max buff cleric? 
 

Personally, I think all the buffs should be consumables and have easy access by all classes or have an NPC that gives out 2 hour buffs every couple of minutes in every major city.

Or better yet, remove all the buffs and scale the game without buffs so that you don’t have to seek buffs to play the game…

People like me just want to get on, play, level up, clear stuff without tabbing through multiple clients or spam “buffs pls” in a major city.

kinda funny u say new game lol srsly
its not a new game my buddy
its reopening old game from 2003-2005
and people had fun back there till the end of NA a few years ago
cleric was the most wanted class it was fun class you could do battle cleric you could do support cleric
most useful skills of him was the buffs 10-12 buffs and they even had unique skills to reduce the amount of clicks
so 1-6 gives all buffs... then you can heal maintain party bonefire thats was his JOB
the people who didn't want to buff can go other classes there is planty
so again i dont get it why dividing those so important skills of the cleric to all classes i cant agree with that move
and i will give a feedback after EA and other people will see its just dont work
only the real OG that likes cleric can understand how Viable are the buffs is for cleric thats what i think
and i hope for the best to this game i trust the devs to understand that eventually

Edited December 6, 2022 by Majestic

[Vile]

32 minutes ago, X15 said:

I don’t understand why people want to have the old clerics in a new game. It’s honestly toxic as heck to make the whole game revolve around one class (cleric giving out all the buffs). Why would people want to play a game that requires two windows or be screwed unless they get buffed by someone else who owns a max buff cleric? 
 

Personally, I think all the buffs should be consumables and have easy access by all classes or have an NPC that gives out 2 hour buffs every couple of minutes in every major city.

Or better yet, remove all the buffs and scale the game without buffs so that you don’t have to seek buffs to play the game…

People like me just want to get on, play, level up, clear stuff without tabbing through multiple clients or spam “buffs pls” in a major city.

^ This guy. This guy knows whats up.
Btw, you can buy crafted buff potions from Artisans. They can buff every stat except Enhance Damage [They have attack up pots, Enhance is another stat] And they even have a purify pot. Their Critical Pot is the best crit buff in the game outside maybe a specific halloween booster.

As for the rest of this thread.
1: This isn't an airport, you don't have to announce your departure. Just leave if you're going to leave.
2: Doom-posting and calling the staff incompetent [in so many words] is likely to just result in a ban. So chill, or refer to statement 1.

As for the whole statement "You can't keep repeating the same mistakes and expect something different" shortly followed by "just leave it how it was it'll be fine", do you even hear yourself. Or are you so busy squealing and throwing your toys out the crib, that you genuinely don't understand the hypocrisy you're espousing? Ya'll need to get a grip. So long as the Dev's remain committed to testing things out and changing what doesn't work, which they said they'll do already, then there's not to lose and everything to gain by trying new things. So just do everyone a favor, and bite your tongue for a bit a let them try. Or keep seething and learn to cope, I don't care.

Edited December 6, 2022 by OwlchemistVile

[SteveOmaha]

Move all buffs to the artisan crafting tree.  Make me richer than ever

[g0s7aR]

On 12/5/2022 at 2:40 PM, OwlchemistVile said:

I retract my compliment Bobbity, have a nice day.

lol can we be friends?

Is there a list of the Cleric changes that someone noted?

[Vile]

1 hour ago, g0s7ar said:

lol can we be friends?

Is there a list of the Cleric changes that someone noted?

There's not a comprehensive list in any one place no. It'd be a bit more obvious once the game goes live, but for all intents and purposes Cleric is exactly the same, minus a few buffs, and possibly some stronger heals.

[MittelDank]

Just for everyone that is worried about cleric, including myself this FAQ answer might ease some fears:
 

Quote

What is your philosophy with the Cleric?
ROSE needs a little bit of innovation. We think, that Cleric should be an active class someone is playing. You should main cleric. Cleric should not be a buff bot, that everybody has as a second window.
Removing all the duplicate buffs has revealed both the strengths and the weaknesses of the remaining Cleric kit. It is a fine solo leveling job, but the heals are just too weak.

I personally think that class specific buffs are fine in principle, especially stats which really make sense for that specific class to give (str/dex/int/con/sen). Atk power, crit and magic up etc can make sense to fit in the different classes. This was already in the final versions of the old naRose.

I did and do still believe that an active gameplay buffer would make the cleric keep it's identity from before while making them essentially un-dual-clientable. They still are very much a buffer but active juggling when to buff through damage or when to heal.

Attacking could apply offensive buffs and healing could apply defensive buffs. This would make cleric very active and feel quite nice imo.

These attacking "buffs" could be debuffs applied to the target attacked. Encouraging a group with a fs cleric to go for stronger engagements, while also not demanding that a fs cleric pickup random skills for when they are solo. They can stay fs and they receive it when alone and amplify the group when in groups.

Ideas for "attacking" buffs which don't have to all be purely offensive:

Ideally they shouldn't step on other classes already offensive debuffs like def down, magic down, attack slow, attack down, etc.

These can be active skills that then apply these chances.

• A dot debuff that does damage based on the strongest attack on the target in the next 2 seconds doing a % of that attack over time. This synergizes with a group and solo.
• A stun, fear, other cc on % chance attack from the cleric again forcing them specifically to juggle healing or offensive timing including target choice.
• % chance to remove 1-x? of a target's own buffs.
• A high mana skill that applies x% increased damage to the target below a certain % of health.
•  After I just said don't step on others' but anyone attacking the target after an attack buff is applied gets a small boost for x time of dmg/speed/crit.
• I am sure there are many other suggestions that could be had here, and plan to edit to update when I lose mind fog of the moment

The other option is summoner which can make cleric more active again but I do slightly fear it will be just bring your summon and boringly press your 2-3 heals on cooldown.

A huge healing overhaul, which would be very hard to make cleric useful in a group before endgame or mandatory, which is not the goal. A pure healing with the current set that was there before seems like we will have just traded "buff" slave to "heal" slave with very similar levels of engagement.

^ After I just said that I understand everything just proposed would be a huge overhaul anyways. If there is an overhaul a purely defensive healing / defensive buffs from healing alone idea feels like half of the point of cleric empowering allies in a fight.

If the other classes don't "need" a heal slave then no one wants you. If it is required at endgame then you are just begrudgingly leveled up purely for that. Neither of these will go well for a new player that is not already a part of a group that knows they are staying together.

 

Edited December 12, 2022 by MittelDank

[g0s7aR]

It would be fun to see heals 'crit' as an added bonus to buff healing clerics.

If attacks can crit, why not heals?

This isn't in the game, right? I might sound stupid if it is.

[MittelDank]

2 minutes ago, g0s7aR said:

It would be fun to see heals 'crit' as an added bonus to buff healing clerics.

If attacks can crit, why not heals?

This isn't in the game, right? I might sound stupid if it is.

Haha honestly I can't remember either, or maybe with the buff structure before everything was a crit so it felt the same anyways

[Vile]

5 minutes ago, g0s7aR said:

It would be fun to see heals 'crit' as an added bonus to buff healing clerics.

If attacks can crit, why not heals?

This isn't in the game, right? I might sound stupid if it is.

I suggested this before to the WP Dev's, so I'm down to try it still.

[MittelDank]

On 12/6/2022 at 9:59 AM, X15 said:

I don’t understand why people want to have the old clerics in a new game. It’s honestly toxic as heck to make the whole game revolve around one class (cleric giving out all the buffs). Why would people want to play a game that requires two windows or be screwed unless they get buffed by someone else who owns a max buff cleric? 
 

Personally, I think all the buffs should be consumables and have easy access by all classes or have an NPC that gives out 2 hour buffs every couple of minutes in every major city.

Or better yet, remove all the buffs and scale the game without buffs so that you don’t have to seek buffs to play the game…

People like me just want to get on, play, level up, clear stuff without tabbing through multiple clients or spam “buffs pls” in a major city.

The problem with this is what to do with cleric. You traded "buff" slave for pot slave and maybe heal slave?

I think we can all agree to not wanting multiple clients. This is addressed through gameplay style not technical limits which can be circumvented.

With the idea that all classes should be able to solo easier it would seem begging for buffs is gone thankfully.

This still leaves the issue of what identity the cleric has left now that half of the fs kit has been removed.

[Vile]

Calling it a Heal Slave is a dangerous slope to continue. At some point that argument leads to "Clerics should be a BC with FS levels of healing" which would fundamentally become the only class worth playing anymore. It's a slippery slope to use reductive labels like that.
FS Cleric [Full Support] wasn't a "buff slave". They actively could participate.
"Buff slaves" were characters you didn't gear for anything other than max CHA rest into main stat. You didn't use them for anything OTHER than to buff.

Personally, after the EA starts my plan is to main a Cleric in am omni-style build. Meaning a balance of heal, mitigation, and damage. I plan to prove that Cleric doesn't require having full buffs, to be a valuable asset. It's actually pretty insulting to BC's and people who played a FS actively to reduce their participation to "you only have value if you give me full buffs". Really arrogant and childish thought process actually.

My comments are in  the general and vague, not towards any particular person just so we're clear.

Edited December 12, 2022 by OwlchemistVile

[MittelDank]

1 hour ago, OwlchemistVile said:

Calling it a Heal Slave is a dangerous slope to continue. At some point that argument leads to "Clerics should be a BC with FS levels of healing" which would fundamentally become the only class worth playing anymore. It's a slippery slope to use reductive labels like that.
FS Cleric [Full Support] wasn't a "buff slave". They actively could participate.
"Buff slaves" were characters you didn't gear for anything other than max CHA rest into main stat. You didn't use them for anything OTHER than to buff.

Personally, after the EA starts my plan is to main a Cleric in am omni-style build. Meaning a balance of heal, mitigation, and damage. I plan to prove that Cleric doesn't require having full buffs, to be a valuable asset. It's actually pretty insulting to BC's and people who played a FS actively to reduce their participation to "you only have value if you give me full buffs". Really arrogant and childish thought process actually.

My comments are in  the general and vague, not towards any particular person just so we're clear.

A cleric is meant to empower themselves and others. They bought up how heals feel low. I would prefer less heals and people still have a use for hp pots at correct times than fs be pure heals which is what it seems they are being forced to be.

I am specifically not asking for 

Quote

At some point that argument leads to "Clerics should be a BC with FS levels of healing

I am asking for empowerment of allies and themselves that they are with. Leaving them vastly lower damage alone. True battle cleric (wand mastery, summons) could specifically be the bc side of things. I am specifically talking about fs. 

Quote

"Buff slaves" were characters you didn't gear for anything other than max CHA rest into main stat. You didn't use them for anything OTHER than to buff.

And then switch to regular gear to heal. This statement also applies to all the buff slave classes that were used that were not clerics from previous naRose btw which can still happen now it appears.

Quote

Personally, after the EA starts my plan is to main a Cleric in am omni-style build. Meaning a balance of heal, mitigation, and damage. I plan to prove that Cleric doesn't require having full buffs, to be a valuable asset. It's actually pretty insulting to BC's and people who played a FS actively to reduce their participation to "you only have value if you give me full buffs"

Sounds good me too. The assumption that their buffs is their only use is insulting, which is why it is very worrying seeing the push towards only heals.

Quote

What is your philosophy with the Cleric?
ROSE needs a little bit of innovation. We think, that Cleric should be an active class someone is playing. You should main cleric. Cleric should not be a buff bot, that everybody has as a second window.
Removing all the duplicate buffs has revealed both the strengths and the weaknesses of the remaining Cleric kit. It is a fine solo leveling job, but the heals are just too weak.

"but the heals are just too weak" 

Maybe the heals are alright and people still have a reason for strategic food/pot use. Thus allowing cleric to not just be a healer but one that enhances their party in many ways. Healing, buffs, and damage. Sort of what my suggestion in the post above points out. My post clearly points to a mix not one or the other of any.

Heals and bc feels like it misses the half of the definition of a cleric which in other games even battle clerics are there for empowering "buffing" their allies. It also was not only defensive buffs, as they were suppose to be particularly good at dealing with the undead damage wise and cc wise.

For example:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cleric_(Dungeons_%26_Dragons)

Quote

Clerics are versatile figures, both capable in combat and skilled in the use of divine magic (thaumaturgy). Clerics are powerful healers due to the large number of healing and curative magics available to them.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_in_Dungeons_%26_Dragons#Divine_magic

Quote

Cleric spells are typically devoted to either healing the wounded, restoring lost abilities, and acquiring blessings, or to inflict harm and to curse opponents.

Notice there isn't just a mention of defensive buffs but also offensive. Playing them actively instead of passively would more align with the idea of a cleric and get rid of the buff slave part as they would have to be actively managed. As stated in my post above.

You could perhaps say the offensive buffs should be in the bc mix and not the support side of things? No offensive buffs does not really seem to work in either the more supporting side of things or the bc side.

Great you are going to be a mix, I hope it is proven right. It was not before I did both battle cleric and fs cleric. A cleric's definition is to empower your allies and yourself not just heals or battle. Battle only with minor heals feels very much like a knockoff mage as others have stated. Which can have heals btw.

 

Edited December 12, 2022 by MittelDank

[moshi moshi]

if im interpreting this change correctly, the only difference is that instead of 1 buff slave you will need multiple. so what will happen is a bunch of buff slaves controlled by different people in a specific area working together (as you can only have 1-2 slaves at a time) to provide full buffs for soloing.

so functionally this changes nothing (except axe an iconic role)

what exactly is the goal here?

it appears to be to encourage or even require grouping, so heres a better solution: increase the difficulty of the game in general (increase enemy damage, health, etc and/or decrease player damage, health, etc) until the game can no longer be easily soloed even with buffs. then not only would you "need" a buff slave but also other classes actually playing the game. to prevent buff slaves you could force them to be more active during combat, such as requiring them to be nearby and/or be in combat (deal/receive damage, heal, etc) or their buffs get cleared/disabled.

if you want people to solo the game theres no reason to change cleric at all

if you want people to solo the game but without needing a cleric (already possible but whatever) then make the game easier

otherwise it just seems like its to nerf the cleric for personal reasons

 

as someone who only ever played this game for the buff cleric i would personally like to see their buffs nerfed in the way i described above where they have to participate for players to keep their buffs. its disappointing to see your main class made almost worthless by people standing around buffing everyone constantly. even making it so buffs cannot be given to players not in the party and clearing them when they leave the party would be great.

[Noriega]

I have a funny feeling i asked this before but what exactly is the current build/patch notes for open beta, particularly class changes? With such a drastic change to muse/cleric it would be imperative to know what we are testing.