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Seperate servers for early access & launch


Averybee24601
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28 minutes ago, Wondertje said:

We have had very different experiences of the game then. It also doesn't change the point that if that's how the team views the game, they shouldn't bring it to early access yet.

Your milage may vary (and that is also true for each individual on the team). But you are only proving my point of how ROSE veterans view the game much more favourably due to their experience with it. And that is why releasing it in this state for exactly those people makes a lot of sense. As I said, the game was live for a long time and the small community that played it, enjoyed it. It is absolutely in a state to be released for those very people.

 

However, new people do not share that experience with that game and they will take it for what it is as game, without being able to relate it to people they used to play with or other fond memories they have of the game.

Improving and polishing all the short-comings (from a removed/new player's perspective, not that of a ROSE veteran) is a process, that will not only take a lot of work, but also many small steps to be accepted by the community and therefore a long time.

 

 

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12 minutes ago, Rebus said:

Your milage may vary (and that is also true for each individual on the team). But you are only proving my point of how ROSE veterans view the game much more favourably due to their experience with it. And that is why releasing it in this state for exactly those people makes a lot of sense. As I said, the game was live for a long time and the small community that played it, enjoyed it. It is absolutely in a state to be released for those very people.

 

However, new people do not share that experience with that game and they will take it for what it is as game, without being able to relate it to people they used to play with or other fond memories they have of the game.

Improving and polishing all the short-comings (from a removed/new player's perspective, not that of a ROSE veteran) is a process, that will not only take a lot of work, but also many small steps to be accepted by the community and therefore a long time.

 

 

So... you're saying exactly what I'm saying then? Release it for us vets, make it a closed beta. Avoid the risk of other new people stumbling across a broken early access and losing all will to play. Don't make a public, open, release until the game is ready for new players to actually come play it.

For some reason, people seem to think that only the vets will have access to early access and no one else is gonna find the game until we choose to officially launch with some ads. That's not gonna happen. People will find it, people will try it and people are going to never look at it again if it's riddled with issues and bugs. This is literally the entire point of having a closed beta in the first place, which was the original plan. I can see absolutely zero logical reasons for doing early access if what we think is gonna happen is that us vets are gonna be the only ones playing. None what-so-ever.

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New idea. What about having a invite-a-friend program at the end of the early access period. Invite a friend to the game and you and your friend both benefit from it. You get a nice exclusive (non-tradable ofc) item and your friend gets a welcome package. This way new players have boost and keeps the game interesting for both groups (EA players and new players).

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1 hour ago, Zeror said:

New idea. What about having a invite-a-friend program at the end of the early access period. Invite a friend to the game and you and your friend both benefit from it. You get a nice exclusive (non-tradable ofc) item and your friend gets a welcome package. This way new players have boost and keeps the game interesting for both groups (EA players and new players).

This should be its own topic. 

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3 hours ago, Wondertje said:

So... you're saying exactly what I'm saying then? Release it for us vets, make it a closed beta. Avoid the risk of other new people stumbling across a broken early access and losing all will to play. Don't make a public, open, release until the game is ready for new players to actually come play it.

For some reason, people seem to think that only the vets will have access to early access and no one else is gonna find the game until we choose to officially launch with some ads. That's not gonna happen. People will find it, people will try it and people are going to never look at it again if it's riddled with issues and bugs. This is literally the entire point of having a closed beta in the first place, which was the original plan. I can see absolutely zero logical reasons for doing early access if what we think is gonna happen is that us vets are gonna be the only ones playing. None what-so-ever.

I would have to agree with Wondertje here. It is ignorant to think that these few thousand people in the Discord are all Rose veterans who love the game in the state it was in when NA Rose closed. Yes, there certainly will be a group whom are of that opinion, but theres most likely also just a really big group of people who played Rose Online anywhere between 5~10 years ago and who have moved on to modern games (or remember a certain private server as their last experience with Rose Online). They expect something more than Rose Online in current state that Rebus describes and will return for nostalgic reasons, but will move on quite quickly when they realize when nothing has improved. And not all will return later for an official release when the game has been out for months.

Those are not facts, obviously. Just how I think it is. If it was my game, I would consider it a huge risk to release a totally lacking game to basically the majority of my player base (all those who are in the Discord). We are all hoping that the game will attract new players, but isn't it a bit of a fantasy to believe that you will find a huge influx of new people who have never heard of Rose Online in the past? The game is just too old for that, and I don't think that should be your main audience. Again, just my humble opinion.

I completely understand if funding is the main motivator for this chosen path. And I am not sure if I would share that with my audience if that was the case, due to possible backlash.

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4 hours ago, Goande said:

I completely understand if funding is the main motivator for this chosen path. And I am not sure if I would share that with my audience if that was the case, due to possible backlash.

The thing is there has been many options put forward to still receive monetization while in EA/Beta include a wipe and still have things run well on launch, I suppose it could just be that rednim might be afraid to back out of their decision to do EA with no wipe at this point, making a statement about changing directions and then a month later going back to the original decision doesn't exactly look great but I believe fully for the health of the game it's the right move

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23 hours ago, Wondertje said:

So... you're saying exactly what I'm saying then? Release it for us vets, make it a closed beta. Avoid the risk of other new people stumbling across a broken early access and losing all will to play. Don't make a public, open, release until the game is ready for new players to actually come play it.

For some reason, people seem to think that only the vets will have access to early access and no one else is gonna find the game until we choose to officially launch with some ads. That's not gonna happen. People will find it, people will try it and people are going to never look at it again if it's riddled with issues and bugs. This is literally the entire point of having a closed beta in the first place, which was the original plan. I can see absolutely zero logical reasons for doing early access if what we think is gonna happen is that us vets are gonna be the only ones playing. None what-so-ever.

They will not be advertising the game therefor there will be a very small population of players joining the game during Early access, and I'm sure there will be a statement somewhere possibly they could put in the client that says "early access build" and people will be understanding of what early access's are and that they're not the final product. Only new players realistically the game will attract will be from word of mouth, and they stated in the EA announcement, "What this means is that we will prioritize getting the game ready for players as much as we can and accept gameplay imperfections until we have a chance to improve them." so i would hope that the person telling the new player about the game would mention that it will have imperfections and bugs as its in early access, or read it on discord and they'd completely understand. Yes they may decide to not play during EA if there are lots of bugs, but return at launch. 

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2 hours ago, averybee1022 said:

They will not be advertising the game therefor there will be a very small population of players joining the game during Early access, and I'm sure there will be a statement somewhere possibly they could put in the client that says "early access build" and people will be understanding of what early access's are and that they're not the final product. 

Sooooo we just going to pretend that GTA VI didn't get it's early dev build ripped apart by 80% of players who saw it even though it was one of their first versions of the game and several years old at this point? No offense but you're insane if youre going to rely on people not judging the EA build of rose and potentially quitting forever. There are people who've shown up in livestreams for the game seen how it is with the current bugs (stress test and before) and already written off the game entirely.

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3 hours ago, averybee1022 said:

They will not be advertising the game therefor there will be a very small population of players joining the game during Early access, and I'm sure there will be a statement somewhere possibly they could put in the client that says "early access build" and people will be understanding of what early access's are and that they're not the final product. Only new players realistically the game will attract will be from word of mouth, and they stated in the EA announcement, "What this means is that we will prioritize getting the game ready for players as much as we can and accept gameplay imperfections until we have a chance to improve them." so i would hope that the person telling the new player about the game would mention that it will have imperfections and bugs as its in early access, or read it on discord and they'd completely understand. Yes they may decide to not play during EA if there are lots of bugs, but return at launch. 

That's all completely irrelevant though, because

a) anyone who is able to find it after a full release (with or without ads), will also be able to find it during EA. Word of mouth goes fast, I've already seen people who are aware of the game because someone talked about it. Or someone came across a stream. Do remember that public streams are a type of advertisement already. We've already put ourselves out there for "random" people to find this game and this server.

b) An early release it not supposed to, or does not generally, mean a broken game riddled with bugs. It's a basically fully playable version of a game that is still in development, such as lacking a finished story and such. There is a difference between a beta and an early access. This game is not yet ready for early access by the sound of it. I refer to this statement right here during a discussion about Steam EA system:

"Early access games are meant to be games that are opened a little earlier to consumers although they are very playable. Simply put, at a consumer standpoint alpha is barely playable, beta is ridden with crashes and bugs, early access should barely have any and most of them will be patched up for actual release. Early access is more for content development more than anything else. It isn't really for testing."

If they want us to test things and do proper bug reporting then it is not an early access ready game. I can't find anyone who disagrees with that definition, I'm sure there's someone, somewhere though.

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On 9/22/2022 at 7:43 PM, Rebus said:

I would disagree with this. Our core audience at large wants the game to be exactly the same as it was before it shut down (except for some quality of life changes and additional content) or in some cases return to the iROSE mechanics. And they want it now.

 

Actually, I'm pretty sure nobody wants the game to be exactly the same as it was before it shut down. Because its exact state is the reason for its shutdown. naROSE is very bad but players just continued playing because we love ROSE regardless.

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23 hours ago, Wondertje said:

That's all completely irrelevant though, because

a) anyone who is able to find it after a full release (with or without ads), will also be able to find it during EA. Word of mouth goes fast, I've already seen people who are aware of the game because someone talked about it. Or someone came across a stream. Do remember that public streams are a type of advertisement already. We've already put ourselves out there for "random" people to find this game and this server.

b) An early release it not supposed to, or does not generally, mean a broken game riddled with bugs. It's a basically fully playable version of a game that is still in development, such as lacking a finished story and such. There is a difference between a beta and an early access. This game is not yet ready for early access by the sound of it. I refer to this statement right here during a discussion about Steam EA system:

"Early access games are meant to be games that are opened a little earlier to consumers although they are very playable. Simply put, at a consumer standpoint alpha is barely playable, beta is ridden with crashes and bugs, early access should barely have any and most of them will be patched up for actual release. Early access is more for content development more than anything else. It isn't really for testing."

If they want us to test things and do proper bug reporting then it is not an early access ready game. I can't find anyone who disagrees with that definition, I'm sure there's someone, somewhere though.

Yes I understand word of mouth spreads fast, and people may try it out but its very unreasonable to judge a game harshly when its in early access and states that, and i think if people like the game, they will come back at launch. which is why they said in discord players will have the understanding its in EA and still in development. And yeah early access is not a testing phase, they never said it was, going this route they will have to take it more onto themselves to check logs, and see as they go weather there are exploits or not and fix them as they go, with the additional hopes players will be reporting bugs still, which i know they will i even heard there will be an ingame feedback option to make that easier. This quote you mentioned is basically exactly what they mentioned when stating the plan change to early access so not quite sure what your point is there. I am hoping they will be stating the game is in early alpha somwhere in the client so people can see it and not be as judgmental. The game has been in development for over a year now and i rarely see many game breaking bugs in streams i think it is definitely ready for early access. And i do think the funding recieved from IM will enhance the development process a ton, allowing the team to expannd, and maybe go full time, and i truly think this will not only speed up the process, but give the devs the resources to fix more bugs and polish the game even more than they could have with such a small team with hardly any funding in betas

 

Sure, i've heard people make the arguement you can still allow players to buy things in betas and give the IM  pts back after launch, but its just not incentivizing and does not sound very appealing honestly to buy stuff during a test phase most people would rather save their money and just do it at launch.

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