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Seperate servers for early access & launch


Averybee24601
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10 minutes ago, Avatar said:

They’re treating it as an open beta.. where players can play the game and stop waiting for everything to finish and actively report bugs and whatnot to the team so it can be fixed before launch. If someone were to play during an official launch and were to come in contact with many bugs and stuff, then they’d leave as no one wants to play a buggy game. 

Then there is instead no difference between this and a proper closed beta with a wipe. Closed beta and/or proper open beta with a wipe could still be done and achieve the good things and more. Basically they are trying to satisfy two groups, one of which unfortunately was a vocal minority that forced them to abandon their intended plan. And there is no way in hell they're going to satisfy both, and by this point probably none.

EDIT: This is somewhat off-topic though, my bad.

Edited by Wondertje
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Just now, prettywomanlover said:

You are missing my point entirely aswell. Players do absolutely care and will not play if there is nobody to play with and yes that would be amazing if every new player could just rely on max level ppl to just make a new character with them and help them out of pure generosity. You cannot depend on that, and even if a few people do make new characters to help you, there still will not be nearly enough people to level with newbies. Also not even to mention, the economy will have already been established for 6+ months, making everything completely unaffordable for new players and making it very hard to gear, and get the items they need or want to do what they want to do. There is so much magic in a freshly launched mmorpg. And if advertisements are saying “newly launched mmorpg” it’s going to be very deceiving to new players and unfair as they will be expecting a fresh start. Yes this game is not a fun solo experience, questing is not fun, there’s no main story quest or anything to keep players interested and wanting to continue other than the low amount of exp you get people will be burnt by level 100 or 150

It’s like you haven’t read anything I said. 

Whether you separate the higher level players to an entirely new server or not, they’re still going to play. If they’re all on the same server, they’re separated by different planets. EITHER WAY, those players wont be with the new players. AT LEAST if they’re all on the same server, they can go and buff the new players when they’re bored of leveling. 

Again, 6 months is not going to inflate anything. You act as if a bamboa rod will go from 3k zulie to 30k. It’s simply NOT going to happen. You’re over exaggerating. 

How can more players mean less gear to procure? Lmao.. do you believe there’s a finite amount of materials that mobs drop? You can rest assured there’s no finite amount. 

Yes, it’s magical indeed. You’ll have people that will want to do every quest in existence and others wanting to do nothing but level.. they can do what they want. It is not deceiving, whatsoever, especially when the game is listed as being in early access. Whether a new player joins day 1 or day 20, there will be players over level 100 already as mentioned in other posts. It’s no different. 

Again, if you believe questing isn’t fun, then talk to the devs. Creating an entirely different server with the same content isn’t going to change this. 

 

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Just now, Wondertje said:

Then there is instead no difference between this and a proper closed beta with a wipe. Closed beta and/or proper open beta with a wipe could still be done and achieve the good things and more. Basically they are trying to satisfy two groups, one of which unfortunately was a vocal minority that forced them to abandon their intended plan. And there is no way in hell they're going to satisfy both, and by this point probably none.

Sure. And this is an entirely different topic. 

What I’m trying to mention here is this (thread) is not a good suggestion. There isn’t anything good about it. The reasoning people are giving is quite ridiculous, an over exaggeration, and just petty. Nothing mentioned in this suggestion will do any good, just bad things to this game. 

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8 minutes ago, Avatar said:

They’re treating it as an open beta.. where players can play the game and stop waiting for everything to finish and actively report bugs and whatnot to the team so it can be fixed before launch. If someone were to play during an official launch and were to come in contact with many bugs and stuff, then they’d leave as no one wants to play a buggy game. 

Yeah i know that, my idea would not interfere with bug reporting or anything really during Early access, rather it will be more for new players to appeal to more new players & retain them, and also will make EA players happy letting them keep their characters, allowing for no resets and still being able to have a new fresh launch experience. I think this will also benefit more EA players as they would want to compete with those new players and level along side them and there would be a lot more to do it with than if there was just an early access server, everybody was already max and new players were discouraged to even play due to not having players to play with

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Just now, prettywomanlover said:

Yeah i know that, my idea would not interfere with bug reporting or anything really during Early access, rather it will be more for new players to appeal to more new players & retain them, and also will make EA players happy letting them keep their characters, allowing for no resets and still being able to have a new fresh launch experience. I think this will also benefit more EA players as they would want to compete with those new players and level along side them and there would be a lot more to do it with than if there was just an early access server, everybody was already max and new players were discouraged to even play due to not having players to play with

This comment was in regards to @Wondertjepost. Nothing about yours. Sorry for the confusion.

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I think, in the end, we're all in agreement that there will be high level players at the time of official launch - as the EA is currently planned to be executed. The disagreement lies in whether or not we (people) think it will have an effect on people who join at launch or not. Some people think it will and try to come up with solutions like this, some people think it won't and don't think ideas like this are necessary. Is there a middle ground? Maybe, somewhere. But it's hard to say whether this effect will be real or not, unless we get there and realise that well shit, we were wrong/right/neither.

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2 hours ago, Avatar said:

Either way, if a new player were to start on day 1 or 2, then there would already be people level 100+. Making this entire suggestion moot. 

1 or 2 days early access is not really a big problem. It's more that if the early access is a lot longer period, like 2 weeks or 2 months or longer. In that time a lot can happen and the eco system (economy, clan-life, etc..) of ROSE is already established then. New players will have hard time to have influence on that.

Edited by Zeror
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22 minutes ago, Zeror said:

1 or 2 days early access is not really a big problem. It's more that if the early access is a lot longer period, like 2 weeks or 2 months or something. In that time a lot can happen and the eco system (economy, clan-life, etc..) of ROSE is already established then. New players will have hard time to have influence on that.

Even if the timeline was 6 months, things aren’t going to change as much as you guys are making it seem like they would. Lol. Especially if you’re also talking about server merging. 

New players will not have a hard time with this. There are also possibilities for new players to join clans to receive help during their journey and once they’re high enough, they can create their own clans. With 4 planets being available, there is going to be no shortage of clan field leveling, either. 

This entire suggestion just doesn’t make any logical sense. 

“Let’s put the higher level players on a different server so new people could find parties. Then we can merge servers later.”

- What? Whether the high level players are on a different server or not, they wont be located in Adventure Plains or Zant. Whether you merge servers later or keep them all on one server, they’re going to end up leveling in Oro and still not be present in Zant. AND if they get bored, they can come back to Zant and help those with any questions/buff them.

“But the economy is going to go crazy! Black tail fur will cost 10k a piece and make it unaffordable!”

- What? How does one even come to this conclusion? 

“We’re also allowing those in early access to make new characters with their friends, they wont be separated.”

- So what’s the difference between that and allowing the higher levels in the main server to just create a new character and leveling up with their friends? Why are there two separate servers? 

“Clans! People wont be able to make their own clan!” 

- But they can. They can join a clan and receive help from said clan and their allies and once they’re high enough level and collected their own funds, they can make their own clan. Joining a clan is not a permanent move. 

“New people will be more inclined to buy IM points!”

- Because of what? Not seeing higher levels when they start out? Don’t worry, they wont. They’re going to be leveling in Eldeon or another planet or be offline vending. If a player stays afk in Adv Plains/Zant/Junon, then those players can see how those costumes or jobs look like before buying or committing to a 1st job. 
 

Literally everything sounds ridiculous. 

Edited by Avatar
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On 9/18/2022 at 10:18 AM, Heatfist said:

One Server to rule them all, 
One Server to find them,
One Server to bring them all 
and in the darkness bind them.

😛

Since Rose is an mmo, new players shouldn’t be discouraged if there are already high level players and an existing economy already in the game.

If one is not able to level from 1-250 solo, then yeah they would feel discouraged and quit, but I believe those vets and others at max level already, would most likely be willing to create alts to help new players where needed if the community isn’t too toxic.

I feel the server split would cause more chaos and disorder and more work and cost for the devs. Merging would also most likely break more than fix as well with the age of the game code. 

Yeah that would be nice but you cannot rely on max level players to make a char with you out of generosity and helpfulness. And yes, this is not a solo game, sure it is possible, but it will take several more months to get max level than leveling with other players. and that point that player will be extremely burnt out doing repetitive quests that have have basically no story or anything keeping them wanting to continue doing them except for the low exp and bad rewards which is very unrewarding and not fun. This is a party driven community game, it’s just not fun solo,I love this game so much I’m not trying to be a hater I’m just being honest, it’s not fun in the least bit solo, especially being a 19 year old game, players will seek better mmorpg options that are more new player friendly, all players being max level with not a lot of new players coming into the game due to them feeling discouraged by max levels and the unrewarding grind of solo leveling 

Edited by averybee1022
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Separating servers is a crap idea as it would mean splitting the community and dead cities and areas in the game. 

Locking content for months is also a crap idea as when people hit the cap they wont have anything to do ---> bored ---> quit. Titan made this mistake. We had only Junon and Luna (or only a few selected parts of Luna) for way to long because the devs whanted to make the content "perfect" before releasing it. Results? People hit the cap and quit after a while because they had nothing to do. 

Either do an early access and accept the fact that some players will have advantage or simply keep the game shut till official release. 

Edited by Nkvc
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7 minutes ago, averybee1022 said:

Yeah that would be nice but you cannot rely on max level players to make a char with you out of generosity and helpfulness. And yes, this is not a solo game, sure it is possible, but it will take several more months to do, and that point that player will be extremely burnt out doing repetitive quests that have have basically no story or anything keeping them wanting to continue doing them except for the low exp and bad rewards which is very unrewarding and not fun. This is a party driven community game, it’s just not fun solo,I love this game so much I’m not trying to be a hater I’m just being honest, it’s not fun in the least bit solo, especially being a 19 year old game, players will seek better mmorpg options that are more new player friendly, all players being max level with not a lot of new players coming into the game due to them feeling discouraged by max levels and the unrewarding grind of solo leveling 

I don’t understand why you keep mentioning this isn’t a solo game. Yes, we’re all aware of that. Separating people with two separate servers isn’t going to benefit anyone, let alone the game. 

Your argument or suggestion should instead be doing a server wipe after early access is over. 

The entire reason this suggestion isn’t a good one by any means can be read by my previous comment. I’m not going to continue reiterating why this isn’t a good suggestion. It’s like you have selective reading. 

Edited by Avatar
Continuing to like your posts on all of your same accounts isn’t going to make it seem like more people are interested in this terrible suggestion.
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19 minutes ago, Avatar said:

I don’t understand why you keep mentioning this isn’t a solo game. Yes, we’re all aware of that. Separating people with two separate servers isn’t going to benefit anyone, let alone the game. 

Your argument or suggestion should instead be doing a server wipe after early access is over. 

The entire reason this suggestion isn’t a good one by any means can be read by my previous comment. I’m not going to continue reiterating why this isn’t a good suggestion. It’s like you have selective reading. 

I’m mentioning it’s not a solo game because that is what it will become if everyone from Ea is already max level and has no reason to level another character. Sure some may but there will not be enough to consistently level with new players, and lots of people will try the game and either instantly quit due to being lied to by advertisements saying it’s a newly launched game, promising a fresh launch experience and not getting that. Idk how you are not understanding this I’ve seen it happen to A lot of games just think to yourself, would you like to play a newly launched mmorpg expecting to level with players and experience the magic of a newly relaunched game, competing to get max level, leveling with friends etc? You’d be forced to play the game solo due to not having players to do it with. Sure maybe for a very short time people will have somone to level with, but most players will get burnt out very fast not consistently having others to lvl with, forcing them to level solo which will lead to even more burn out.

no I do not think wiping is the right decision that is exactly what I’m trying to avoid with this suggestion. It  will make a lot of EA players quit  which mostly consist of old rose vets who played years ago and have much more complex lives and do t have time or choose to use their time doing something else than recreating the exact same character.

Edited by averybee1022
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5 minutes ago, averybee1022 said:

I’m mentioning it’s not a solo game because that is what it will become if everyone from Ea is already max level and has no reason to level another character. Sure some may but there will not be enough to consistently level with new players, and lots of people will try the game and either instantly quit due to being lied to by advertisements saying it’s a newly launched game, promising a fresh launch experience and not getting that. Idk how you are not understanding this I’ve seen it happen to A lot of games just think to yourself, would you like to play a newly launched mmorpg expecting to level with players and experience the magic of a newly relaunched game, competing to get max level, leveling with friends etc? You’d be forced to play the game solo due to not having players to do it with. Sure maybe for a very short time people will have somone to level with, but most players will get burnt out very fast not consistently having others to lvl with, forcing them to level solo which will lead to even more burn out.

no I do not think wiping is the right decision that is exactly what I’m trying to avoid with this suggestion. It  will make a lot of EA players quit  which mostly consist of old rose vets who played years ago and have much more complex lives and do t have time or choose to use their time doing something else than recreating the exact same character.

Why do you believe no one is going to make another character? You practically have to in order to farm mats to make your gems, refine gear, etc. 

Where your suggestion becomes useless is when you decided to just merge the servers eventually. Your whole idea of having two separate servers is only going to keep people apart. Merging the servers will put us back at square 1 for other new players.

Who’s lying? Lmao. If this game is in early access, then it’ll be announced that it is. There is an understanding with players that early access means people are playing before the official launch. Again, you’re over exaggerating.

I don’t have to ask myself that question because I understand that in an MMO, there will always be people ahead of me. Even if they’re friends. 

I will not be leveling solo.. and that concept doesn’t matter as even after 6 month or 12 months later, we can still be having this conversation. So what do we do then? Make another server? And another one? 

How don’t you see this idea is psychotic? 

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19 minutes ago, Avatar said:

Why do you believe no one is going to make another character? You practically have to in order to farm mats to make your gems, refine gear, etc. 

Where your suggestion becomes useless is when you decided to just merge the servers eventually. Your whole idea of having two separate servers is only going to keep people apart. Merging the servers will put us back at square 1 for other new players.

Who’s lying? Lmao. If this game is in early access, then it’ll be announced that it is. There is an understanding with players that early access means people are playing before the official launch. Again, you’re over exaggerating.

I don’t have to ask myself that question because I understand that in an MMO, there will always be people ahead of me. Even if they’re friends. 

I will not be leveling solo.. and that concept doesn’t matter as even after 6 month or 12 months later, we can still be having this conversation. So what do we do then? Make another server? And another one? 

How don’t you see this idea is psychotic? 

No we will not be having this same discussion 6 months later, a game launches once and it’s supposed to be a magical feeling having players all starting at the same level making a good impression on players, and that first impression is extremely important and will determine players ratings of the game weather it’s positive or not, and be a big determining factor on how appealing the game is and weather people will want to play it or not. Having nobody to level with is not going to make a good impression at all, in a game that is so community driven, and the player will see that shortly after doing a handful of quests. Not only will new players be frustrated being way behind on a game that claimed to have just released, having not many to level with, but it will make the most important impression and determine the ratings of the game as most of the time if a game doesn’t make a good first impression, it’s done for. Especially with rose being such a small community and appealing to a small audience mainly players who like older anime games. 

sure people wil make new characters but that will not be enough, lots will be doing it purely out of self interest and not care about leveling or helping new players. 
 

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5 minutes ago, prettywomanlover said:

No we will not be having this same discussion 6 months later, a game launches once and it’s supposed to be a magical feeling having players all starting at the same level making a good impression on players, and that first impression is extremely important and will determine players ratings of the game weather it’s positive or not, and be a big determining factor on how appealing the game is and weather people will want to play it or not. Having nobody to level with is not going to make a good impression at all, in a game that is so community driven, and the player will see that shortly after doing a handful of quests. Not only will new players be frustrated being way behind on a game that claimed to have just released, having not many to level with, but it will make the most important impression and determine the ratings of the game as most of the time if a game doesn’t make a good first impression, it’s done for. Especially with rose being such a small community and appealing to a small audience mainly players who like older anime games. 

sure people wil make new characters but that will not be enough, lots will be doing it purely out of self interest and not care about leveling or helping new players. 
 

Having nobody to level with is a fault that needs to be addressed by the dev team with advice/support from the community. Making two separate servers will exacerbate this fault, not help it. Whether the high level players are present or not isn’t going to change this lol.. The same amount of players will still come. 

Again, your topic/suggestion should be doing a server wipe after the early access because separating an already small community isn’t going to do this game justice.

Either way, I don’t believe I can help you see the bigger impact of this suggestion. 🤷🏻‍♂️ Oh well. 

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Since I was the one who originally started this discussion in the discord about wanting a wipe I'll give my two cents, the problem is that player retention for an early access game that doesn't wipe is extremely low for the first few months, the lack of players issue won't be an issue with higher player retention, I've spoken to many people who even refuse to play the game in the first place specifically because it won't be wiping that otherwise might have given the game a chance, this isn't an issue of "Oh well 6 months after launch everyone's going to be max anyways so just open a new server" I completely agree that there shouldn't be multiple servers however without a wipe the game will struggle to get it's footing off launch and there will be a period of time that new players will open the game day 1 and just quit after seeing a level 250 Raider bolt past them and kill a king for a drop (assuming the king system is in the game) people go into games like wow with the knowledge that the game has been running for 20 years and they expect a pre-existing economy, if they load up rose on day 1 and are flashbanged with an existing economy clans "owning" specific areas and non verbal things that players have learned over the past x months of EA they will just quit the game, no skin off their back it's not like they dropped money on a sub to play the game. Assuming rednim doesn't make the game worse than WP did and also continues to put a modicum of effort into advertising the game there will always be new players, it's a matter of encouraging those players to play past level 100/their first week. And I believe not having a wipe will hurt this in the beginning of the server

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3 minutes ago, Psyberius said:

Since I was the one who originally started this discussion in the discord about wanting a wipe I'll give my two cents, the problem is that player retention for an early access game that doesn't wipe is extremely low for the first few months, the lack of players issue won't be an issue with higher player retention, I've spoken to many people who even refuse to play the game in the first place specifically because it won't be wiping that otherwise might have given the game a chance, this isn't an issue of "Oh well 6 months after launch everyone's going to be max anyways so just open a new server" I completely agree that there shouldn't be multiple servers however without a wipe the game will struggle to get it's footing off launch and there will be a period of time that new players will open the game day 1 and just quit after seeing a level 250 Raider bolt past them and kill a king for a drop (assuming the king system is in the game) people go into games like wow with the knowledge that the game has been running for 20 years and they expect a pre-existing economy, if they load up rose on day 1 and are flashbanged with an existing economy clans "owning" specific areas and non verbal things that players have learned over the past x months of EA they will just quit the game, no skin off their back it's not like they dropped money on a sub to play the game. Assuming rednim doesn't make the game worse than WP did and also continues to put a modicum of effort into advertising the game there will always be new players, it's a matter of encouraging those players to play past level 100/their first week. And I believe not having a wipe will hurt this in the beginning of the server

You say you agree with the two servers, but I don’t understand why there would be a need for two if there was in fact a wipe, the whole point of me suggesting two servers is so there won’t have to be a wipe, and EA players will still be able to keep their account from early access on that server and not feel discouraged having to grind for the same thing twice again. I highly doubt there will be a need for a second server because there will be so many people to be honest. 

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I don't agree with two servers

7 minutes ago, prettywomanlover said:

You say you agree with the two servers, but I don’t understand why there would be a need for two if there was in fact a wipe, the whole point of me suggesting two servers is so there won’t have to be a wipe, and EA players will still be able to keep their account from early access on that server and not feel discouraged having to grind for the same thing twice again. I highly doubt there will be a need for a second server because there will be so many people to be honest. 

2 servers will divide the already quite small community, at best if there were to be 2 servers I'd accept EA server turning into a PBT server and launch to have the "main" server, this keeps player data on the pbt server and their progress "means something" while the rest of people play on the main server for actually playing the game

Edited by Psyberius
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Items will be LESS expensive for new players. Early access will have had a few months to pick up essence and powers and such. Rose isn’t some zero-sum world. If a boss drops a rare item for you, it’s not like that item is gone from the game. It’ll keep dropping at the same rate forever. More of items will be floating around, which makes them cheaper when new players join. There will also be more zulie in the game from drops and quests and so on, and given that npcs sell at fixed prices, generic goods will become cheaper due to inflation. Existing players will have zulie, which means they have the funds to buy things new players have to offer. You guys are welcome to debate issues with players getting a head start, but we should not split the community based on completely backwards economic analysis.

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7 minutes ago, Psyberius said:

I don't agree with two servers

 

Oh my bad read that wrong. Tbh I agree and am fine with a reset I just know a lot of people who would quit if there was one. Yeah maybe they’re not true rose fans or maybe they just don’t want to go through the same grind of getting back the same character, they will just quit.  idk but I’m just trying to think of some alternatives that will make both sides happy and retain as many players as possible while appealing to new ones. 

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4 minutes ago, DoubleRose said:

Items will be LESS expensive for new players. Early access will have had a few months to pick up essence and powers and such. Rose isn’t some zero-sum world. If a boss drops a rare item for you, it’s not like that item is gone from the game. It’ll keep dropping at the same rate forever. More of items will be floating around, which makes them cheaper when new players join. There will also be more zulie in the game from drops and quests and so on, and given that npcs sell at fixed prices, generic goods will become cheaper due to inflation. Existing players will have zulie, which means they have the funds to buy things new players have to offer. You guys are welcome to debate issues with players getting a head start, but we should not split the community based on completely backwards economic analysis.

This isn't true, if one player buys essence for 100 zulie the player next to him will buy it for 101 this will continue for the x months EA will be and as players get higher in level they can sell drops to npc's for more money (a stack of 999 araum from orlo sells for something close to 3m zulie) quests will give more money which allows them to buy this for more expensive, people buying items for more means that the crafted items using those mats will in-turn get more expensive, I understand where you're coming from but unless you can magically hold the price for mats at a low price high level/longer playing players will always have an advantage over new players it's a fact of any mmo

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7 minutes ago, prettywomanlover said:

Oh my bad read that wrong. Tbh I agree and am fine with a reset I just know a lot of people who would quit if there was one. Yeah maybe they’re not true rose fans or maybe they just don’t want to go through the same grind of getting back the same character, they will just quit.  idk but I’m just trying to think of some alternatives that will make both sides happy and retain as many players as possible while appealing to new ones. 

An option for them is they don't play EA if resetting is going to be such a huge problem and play on launch they only have to play once and not deal with a wipe and the server doesn't have a wack economy on launch which in turn would cause player retention issues

 

 

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On 9/18/2022 at 10:35 AM, Sui said:

What about 6 months after release? Or what about 1 year after release? Ideally, there will always be new players joining the server for many years to come, else the game will slowly die again. Are we going to keep creating new servers? No, we should just build the game in a way that it's fun for new players even when they join later. This is the only way to guarantee long-term success and growth for Rose Online. So in my opinion, the devs should focus on making the game fun for new players during EA, so that on official launch it will not bother new players that they had a late start.

I dislike the idea of splitting the community in multiple servers. If you have a fanbase of millions of players like WoW you can do that, but on a smaller game like Rose Online it will just result in two servers with low population and activity.

 No there is only one launch, and people base their first impressions off that and if there are not many new players to level with it will be a bad impression and many players will go off that and not play because of it.

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6 minutes ago, Psyberius said:

This isn't true, if one player buys essence for 100 zulie the player next to him will buy it for 101 this will continue for the x months EA will be and as players get higher in level they can sell drops to npc's for more money (a stack of 999 araum from orlo sells for something close to 3m zulie) quests will give more money which allows them to buy this for more expensive, people buying items for more means that the crafted items using those mats will in-turn get more expensive, I understand where you're coming from but unless you can magically hold the price for mats at a low price high level/longer playing players will always have an advantage over new players it's a fact of any mmo

The nominal zulie prices is for an item doesn't matter at all. A player only cares about the cost of getting it. An item that is 5k zulie that takes 10 minutes of farming to acquire is more expensive than that same item a year later that is 100k zulie and 5 minutes to farm. The price of something is the difficulty in acquiring it, and the greater the supply, the easier is to get and thus the lower the true price. Think of the cost of getting shoes now versus two thousand years ago. Sure, the amount of currency you pay is higher, but the shoes are far, far cheaper now. I'd rather live now when the shoemaker "has an advantage over me" because I don't have to pay an arm and a leg for a cobbler to take 6 months to make a single pair of shoes. You're not going to make everyone equal no matter what you do, but you will make things cheaper with a greater supply of goods and existing crafters.

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