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I loved being a FS cleric


CRAKE
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Not sure where this should go really, but I'm kind of sad that clerics won't be offensive buffers now too, I used to love having a FS cleric that began as a buff slave but then became my main, I used to spend hours in low level areas buffing new people and low level parties for them to grow quicker and to help them have a good positive early experience in the game. I'll definitely be sad that I won't be able to do that when the games re-released.

Edited by CRAKE
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  • CRAKE changed the title to I loved being a FS cleric

Yes please. At least keep it in the game as a separate skill tree and add the new features as a new one. I always picked cleric first. Some people just want to help other people and the cleric was the best way to do it 🙂

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I would agree to their decision of changing the cleric. being a player that cannot live without a buff is frustrating. I remember I need to go back and forth to junon just to get re-buffed by a max lvl since my party mate cleric's buff is not "enough".

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  • 1 month later...

when half of the clerics were used as buff mules on a second window following their main instead of playing the game, then theres something inherently wrong with the class. i support the changes that the devs plan on doing, even better if they completely revamp the class

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Posted (edited)
On 5/31/2022 at 8:42 AM, Dyingchant said:

then theres something inherently wrong with the class

I beg to differ. The dial client issue was more a case of there being a lack of players actually playing it MMORPG style. A lot of people wanted to solo, never play with anyone else, etc. So they chose to dual client support and offense. Personally, I don't see an issue with that. It's more a case of personal choice. I played single F/S for a while, looking for teams to join so that I could level, it was hard to find people to play with so I ended up creating a second main character. It's a case of to each their own, I wouldn't call that broken.

EDIT: In other words, I too loved being a F/S cleric and it saddens me to see how they've not only buffed other classes but also limited a class that was already limited to begin with in terms of playing solo vs. playing with other characters.

Edited by Wondertje
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13 hours ago, Wondertje said:

I beg to differ. The dial client issue was more a case of there being a lack of players actually playing it MMORPG style. A lot of people wanted to solo, never play with anyone else, etc. So they chose to dual client support and offense. Personally, I don't see an issue with that. It's more a case of personal choice. I played single F/S for a while, looking for teams to join so that I could level, it was hard to find people to play with so I ended up creating a second main character. It's a case of to each their own, I wouldn't call that broken.

EDIT: In other words, I too loved being a F/S cleric and it saddens me to see how they've not only buffed other classes but also limited a class that was already limited to begin with in terms of playing solo vs. playing with other characters.

dual clienting doesnt mean that that person only plays solo, they usually form a party and invite people in so that they can level up 2 of their chars efficiently fast. you also dont see people dual clienting other classes as much as cleric. i dont know how it is in the end game but the vast majority of dual clienting ive witnessed in my multiple runs of playthrough under 150 were overwhelmingly clerics. the funny thing is, even if a fs cleric was playing as a main without dual clienting, they could literally just set up fires, buff the whole party and go afk until the re-buffs, while leeching the loot. and almost nobody would care about it because thats 80% of the value of a fs cleric. but that value was huge when the entire party becomes 2x stronger. ive never seen a fs class in a game whos gameplay was so banal yet the most valuable in a party. its literally screaming at you to use this class as a buff mule, and that in my eyes is a broken class.

i also think that the cleric mains who are indignant because of the removal of the buffs are confounding "rework" with "nerfs". the devs are gonna rework clerics from the ground up after removing or balancing the buff reliancy issues. if you think about it, the fs buffs will be exchanged for whatever the devs cooked up (their own new spells, mass debuffs, defensive auras, links etc like the other users mentioned) - while the other classes get the buffs. it essentially means that we all will get stronger, to the point where the devs might need to scale the monsters or try to curb the powercreep. arent clerics supposed to be the devoted, stalwart supporter of the party? its win-win for everyone. the party gets stronger.

 

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2 hours ago, Dyingchant said:

arent clerics supposed to be the devoted, stalwart supporter of the party?

Yes, they are. And that was the trade-off from properly playing as a cleric. But with no offensive buffs to offer clerics are going to become even more afk, healing and setting up bonfires (or equivalents) and do nothing more. They will be heal slaves instead of buff slaves (which is a term I don't agree with to begin with) - I don't see how that's any better. Like I've mentioned, I'm willing to give it a shot. But it doesn't sound like something I will enjoy as much as I enjoyed being a proper F/S.

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3 hours ago, Wondertje said:

Yes, they are. And that was the trade-off from properly playing as a cleric. But with no offensive buffs to offer clerics are going to become even more afk, healing and setting up bonfires (or equivalents) and do nothing more. They will be heal slaves instead of buff slaves (which is a term I don't agree with to begin with) - I don't see how that's any better. Like I've mentioned, I'm willing to give it a shot. But it doesn't sound like something I will enjoy as much as I enjoyed being a proper F/S.

again, you are assuming that the devs are only gonna remove the buff skills and nothing more. its a rework, not an outright nerf. having a full support build in an mmo does not necessarily mean heal/buff only. there are tons of support skills im sure you can think of if youve played other games?

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Dyingchant said:

its a rework, not an outright nerf

It's a rework that nerfs this specific play style of cleric that is being talked about. Yes, they're removing offensive buffs and will "compensate" according to the FAQ, but based on the current information we have they're doing so to make cleric a viable solo class on their own, in style with all other classes. This is in direct contrast to the playing style that is being discussed in this thread. This thread isn't about whether clerics are (going to be) good or bad, it's about whether this one specific playstyle will be obtainable, which it seems it will not.

Edited by Wondertje
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then why did you assume that clerics will only be heal slaves and afk after setting up fires, after the removal of the buffs? the devs are tackling this issue precisely because of a single class having all the buffs is too much which we've already touched upon, AND the defective playstyle of "buff, fire and afk" lol. its fine if you prefer the more afk playstyle of a buffer, but clerics in the future will most likely have less afk time

19 hours ago, Wondertje said:

But with no offensive buffs to offer clerics are going to become even more afk, healing and setting up bonfires (or equivalents) and do nothing more. They will be heal slaves instead of buff slaves (which is a term I don't agree with to begin with) - I don't see how that's any better.

 

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, Dyingchant said:

then why did you assume that clerics will only be heal slaves and afk after setting up fires, after the removal of the buffs?

Because I don't believe most people will solo cleric. I didn't mean that will be their only purpose, but for a F/S / passive helper cleric (which again is the topic of this thread) that is what it has become. I think it's somewhat of a pipe dream to make this kind of rework, and based on what I've seen around here and the Discord, it's not even heavily favoured by the community. Granted, developers have final say in what they want and do, but I definitely think we will see some reverting changes before the final release is ready. Ultimately, like I've said, I'll give it a try - who knows, maybe I love it and change my mind.

Edited by Wondertje
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On 4/9/2022 at 8:11 PM, Nonybear22 said:

I agree completely, keep clerics OG so they can give all buffs out.

No. I don't want to run around for several minutes to try to find a cleric who isn't afk just to be able to level up at a competitive speed for like 10 minutes, then repeat that process over again. That's a seriously flawed and not fun system.

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That point is exactly why other classes do need their class specific buffs, while also leaving clerics OG. Like I said in a different thread, if clerics are left OG and other classes get these planned specific buffs for themselves (potentially slightly weaker than cleric buffs to give people incentive to let clerics play in group settings), everyone would be happy. You could play passive cleric, you can level without one regardless of class, etc. No real negative outcome, and from what I can tell we can all play happily.

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5 hours ago, Wondertje said:

That point is exactly why other classes do need their class specific buffs, while also leaving clerics OG. Like I said in a different thread, if clerics are left OG and other classes get these planned specific buffs for themselves (potentially slightly weaker than cleric buffs to give people incentive to let clerics play in group settings), everyone would be happy. You could play passive cleric, you can level without one regardless of class, etc. No real negative outcome, and from what I can tell we can all play happily.

Ehh, I’d argue that clerics should be the ones with slightly weaker buffs. More incentive on getting a good party going and not leaving all the buffs for the cleric. However, if there are not a lot of folks, the clerics could give the buffs that are missing.. filling in the gaps. 

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On 6/9/2022 at 9:55 AM, Wondertje said:

Because I don't believe most people will solo cleric. I didn't mean that will be their only purpose, but for a F/S / passive helper cleric (which again is the topic of this thread) that is what it has become.

get on with the times. the outdated playstyle of buff and afk is over. people dont solo with cleric because that was literally their toolset - to fire, buff and afk. it goes against the spirit of an mmo, counter intuitive and banal. it incentivizes people to dual client a cleric - if you could get 2-3x stronger every 10 mins, why would you not? the devs are trying to fix this issue to make clerics independent, while also being able to provide great utility and support for the party.

On 6/9/2022 at 9:55 AM, Wondertje said:

 and based on what I've seen around here and the Discord, it's not even heavily favoured by the community.

by the cleric mains, not the whole community.

18 hours ago, Wondertje said:

That point is exactly why other classes do need their class specific buffs, while also leaving clerics OG. Like I said in a different thread, if clerics are left OG and other classes get these planned specific buffs for themselves (potentially slightly weaker than cleric buffs to give people incentive to let clerics play in group settings), everyone would be happy. You could play passive cleric, you can level without one regardless of class, etc. No real negative outcome, and from what I can tell we can all play happily.

again, you fail to see the crux of the problem. if you still leave clerics OG with a plethora of buffs, the problem of people being incentivized to create a secondary buff slave instead of playing the game as a cleric main stays even with class specific buffs. it wont be as strong, but itll still make a huge difference. honestly speaking, if the devs revert the changes back to an OG, it essentially means that theyve said fuck it and given up on clerics. just wash their hands off this issue and let the majority of clerics be buff mules, a defective product of a bygone period. as a community, do we really want this? a stain on an integral part of the game? you may like the OG playstyle, but it doesnt change the fact that it was broken.

 

Edited by lazypenguin
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5 hours ago, Dyingchant said:

you may like the OG playstyle, but it doesnt change the fact that it was broken

You seem oblivious to the fact that people can have different views and opinions on this, but I think I've made my point pretty clear already, so feel free to think what you want - you're entitled to your opinion.

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12 hours ago, Avatar said:

I’d argue that clerics should be the ones with slightly weaker buffs. More incentive on getting a good party going and not leaving all the buffs for the cleric

Hmm, I'm not sure which side would be best to go. I feel like if clerics are weaker, then no one will have any reason to party with them or get their buffs, everyone (or every other party without a cleric) would do as well or better without. This wouldn't benefit clerics playing in a group setting.

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We know this is a hot debate for our community but please refrain from directing insults at each other. We welcome spirited debates about controversial discussions but please respect that people have different opinions and try to stay focused on discussing the topic rather than directing insults at each other.

 

Thank you.

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19 hours ago, Wondertje said:

That point is exactly why other classes do need their class specific buffs, while also leaving clerics OG. Like I said in a different thread, if clerics are left OG and other classes get these planned specific buffs for themselves (potentially slightly weaker than cleric buffs to give people incentive to let clerics play in group settings), everyone would be happy. You could play passive cleric, you can level without one regardless of class, etc. No real negative outcome, and from what I can tell we can all play happily.

I think clerics should just be useful for healing, strong-ish defensive buffs, and mediocre, yet noticeable, damage output buffs (damage, attack speed, crit chance, etc). They could have defensive buffs, and I think that would be fine. However, I don't think anyone should be able to give someone else a buff that makes their damage output significantly larger than it was before. The lower tier muse buffs are good, because they kind of suck, but that's okay. Those should stay, and clerics should still have those, maybe slightly buffed. Just not as good as the jacked steroid buffs that they had.

Edited by Jova1106
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10 hours ago, Wondertje said:

Hmm, I'm not sure which side would be best to go. I feel like if clerics are weaker, then no one will have any reason to party with them or get their buffs, everyone (or every other party without a cleric) would do as well or better without. This wouldn't benefit clerics playing in a group setting.

The only buffs that would be weaker are the ones that the other classes (offense buffs) have. Otherwise, clerics would have normal buffs for everything else. Still making them an asset to have in a party. 

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16 hours ago, Wondertje said:

You seem oblivious to the fact that people can have different views and opinions on this, but I think I've made my point pretty clear already, so feel free to think what you want - you're entitled to your opinion.

i already said a few times that its fine to like that playstyle. but it was broken, and thats why the devs are changing it 😛

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I think Clerics should be a valued member of a party, so their buffs need to have a measurable effect. Only class specific buffs should be stronger. I really enjoyed dual clienting my Cleric to lvl up my Raider.

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