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Bring back Muse/Cleric Buffs


merc2

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This

is 

not 

discussion

about

cleric

 

Quote

But good job to whoever changed the topic so it it looked like it was, werid I can't even do that myself on my own post.

 

On 12/28/2022 at 11:05 AM, merc2 said:

Hmm where to start?  I don't mind the cleric changes.

clearly the first thing I said. with the topic being buffs

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On 12/28/2022 at 11:05 AM, merc2 said:

Hmm where to start?  I don't mind the cleric changes. What bothers me about it is that I have to have one of each class in the party to get a full buff, why?? Yes its an mmo but every mmo has solo players or small groups of 2-3 people. But now this is the only mmo that makes you feel like you have to play with a decent sized group to do regular world content. Also the idea that this stops "buff slaves" is just a dream that will never happen, as long as there is a way to buff another player. there will be alt characters with max charm and base stat to get the best buff possible. with their only purpose being to give 4 buffs to the party and then go afk waiting to be brought back into the party for a rebuff.  The buff system is unique to ROSE and drastically changing it could be good but also could prove to be bad in the long run. Has there been any thought into just removing them completely or trying an approach where buffs aren't shared by the party. Giving each class there own buffs would make them even more unique. Could even give cleric access to weaker versions of all the buffs. in conclusion, I think there is more work to be done here with the buff system. I've been playing different versions of ROSE for over a decade, and have many friends that won't even try this one because of the buff changes. I like the idea but also hate being forced to play with strangers that don't even speak the same language half of the time. 

 

8 minutes ago, merc2 said:

clearly the first thing I said. with the topic being buffs

Everything you mentioned in the first post is about giving buffs back to clerics and how it’s unique to ROSE. You initially claimed that you “don’t mind cleric buffs” but then everything after is telling us how you dont like cleric buffs. 

I have nothing against your opinion on whether or not you like cleric buffs or want them reverted, etc.. but I merged your topic with another that was presented because you’re speaking about the same ideas. 

The topic name cannot be changed as the topics were merged. If you have a better suggestion, then I’m all ears. But stop triple posting your frustration. There is an edit button for that. 

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On 1/18/2023 at 3:04 PM, Avatar said:

Everything you mentioned in the first post is about giving buffs back to clerics and how it’s unique to ROSE.

No, buffs are unique to ROSE. I'm saying I don't want to party with three other people to get buffs. It has nothing to do with clerics. You are making it about clerics because I didn't really suggest a solution that doesn't involve them. But then again, I didn't really suggest anything. Just wanted to know how people felt about having to party up to get full buffs. I played <deleted>, so I was used to having strong max lvl buffs and running through early game content like it was a joke and on max lvl farming by myself with a cleric and bourg. I'm not saying I want to run through the early game, never liked that about the other server. But I do want to be able to go to a spot and farm refines/gear by myself, as I just don't see finding a party to take with me everywhere I want to farm feasible.   

 

On 1/18/2023 at 3:04 PM, Avatar said:

But stop triple posting your frustration.

Lol frustration, I mean sure I could have said please a couple of times or not mentioned the topic getting changed. But you should have said something when you changed the topic. I didn't even realize you did until after I posted once. Guess I should have edited it to be one message so I didn't look frustrated haha. I don't want to come to my post and see people talking about clerics and getting defensive over not wanting them changed back. I've already said that this isn't a discussion about clerics. But people see the topic and last thing posted. They aren't going to go to the beginning and get the full story. Which is why we just have people posting "how about no", "I like my cleric", "this is already suggested, go look at other posts before making a new one". We don't need another post saying the same thing because its just causing people to be rash with their replies.  

Edited by Avatar
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54 minutes ago, merc2 said:

Lol frustration, I mean sure I could have said please a couple of times or not mentioned the topic getting changed. But you should have said something when you changed the topic. I didn't even realize you did until after I posted once. Guess I should have edited it to be one message so I didn't look frustrated haha. I don't want to come to my post and see people talking about clerics and getting defensive over not wanting them changed back. I've already said that this isn't a discussion about clerics. But people see the topic and last thing posted. They aren't going to go to the beginning and get the full story. Which is why we just have people posting "how about no", "I like my cleric", "this is already suggested, go look at other posts before making a new one". We don't need another post saying the same thing because its just causing people to be rash with their replies.  

I didn't change the topic, I merged two similar topics together. The forum does the rest. If I changed the topic you would see that edit as the forum will inform everyone in the thread with a little note.

The changes that were made in game allowed it so people do not have to rely on a full set of buffs to level up. These changes are evident already. People that want full buffs want them just to have them, but it is 100% possible to level without them all. The very fact that you want to suggest for clerics to have all the buffs again, regardless if it's weaker than the other classes, is exactly why this is a cleric topic and why I merged the threads together. 

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On 1/8/2023 at 1:22 PM, merc2 said:

Yes, I see three options that make sense to me. Remove buffs completely, make the class specific buffs not be party buffs (so every class just has there own buffs), or make a way to get full buffs with out needing 4 party members

 

 

On 12/28/2022 at 6:10 PM, merc2 said:

I'm looking at the bigger picture not just leveling.

 

 

Maybe you haven't read it all eaither

 

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On 12/28/2022 at 11:05 AM, merc2 said:

Hmm where to start?  I don't mind the cleric changes. What bothers me about it is that I have to have one of each class in the party to get a full buff, why?? Yes its an mmo but every mmo has solo players or small groups of 2-3 people. But now this is the only mmo that makes you feel like you have to play with a decent sized group to do regular world content. Also the idea that this stops "buff slaves" is just a dream that will never happen, as long as there is a way to buff another player. there will be alt characters with max charm and base stat to get the best buff possible. with their only purpose being to give 4 buffs to the party and then go afk waiting to be brought back into the party for a rebuff.  The buff system is unique to ROSE and drastically changing it could be good but also could prove to be bad in the long run. Has there been any thought into just removing them completely or trying an approach where buffs aren't shared by the party. Giving each class there own buffs would make them even more unique. Could even give cleric access to weaker versions of all the buffs. in conclusion, I think there is more work to be done here with the buff system. I've been playing different versions of ROSE for over a decade, and have many friends that won't even try this one because of the buff changes. I like the idea but also hate being forced to play with strangers that don't even speak the same language half of the time. 

3 minutes ago, merc2 said:

Maybe you haven't read it all eaither

 

I've read your post, yes. Otherwise, I wouldn't have merged the thread. 

The fact of the matter is, there already currently exists the fact where all classes has unique buffs that is only for them/their party. Log in the game and find out. Any introduction of any class to have all the buffs (despite you believing otherwise) will bring us back to square 1 with the cleric class. Moreover, we currently have buff potions in game that can fill in the gaps of whatever buffs you're wanting to solo level. 

Again, I'm not pro or anti reverting cleric changes, I'm simply telling you why the threads were merged. I stand by my decision and will not discuss this any further. 

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I don't even want to discuss this. Now its just a headache. I still don't think you are reading the whole thread, conversations evolve. I get it though, way too many other headaches on the forum. I'd be fine if you closed the post, it's not going to get us anywhere. I've hardly participated in a pre developed game like this, and the times I have, I've never gone to the forums and suggested anything. Just felt different about this game. I started playing <deleted> when I was 14 (28 now). Not knowing it was a private server for years. When I found out it was, there was no official server to support. Out of respect for the game and especially Rednim, I quit playing <deleted> when I found out about an official server. I have been playing, and was waiting to play ROSE Online for almost a year. I guess I need to work on my forum skills because more than anything I just want to know if the end game (aside from dungeons and the classic you need help killing that) will still be playable solo. I don't know what the end game looks like from the base code. I just assumed you inherited game code with broken buffs, but these broken buffs allowed me to play a certain way for years. So seeing them gone, naturally I'm looking for ways to do what I used to.   

Also there was always basic and party buffs. basic buffs could be given to anyone no matter the lvl difference, and were the offensive buffs. It was the party buffs that made the game playable solo, because they were all the defensive buffs. 

 

15 hours ago, Avatar said:

The fact of the matter is, there already currently exists the fact where all classes has unique buffs that is only for them/their party.

No spider man has unique buffs, no one else can shoot webs and climb walls. A hawker can still get a hit buff. 

Edited by merc2
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51 minutes ago, merc2 said:

I don't even want to discuss this. Now its just a headache. I still don't think you are reading the whole thread, conversations evolve. I get it though, way too many other headaches on the forum. I'd be fine if you closed the post, it's not going to get us anywhere. I've hardly participated in a pre developed game like this, and the times I have, I've never gone to the forums and suggested anything. Just felt different about this game. I started playing <deleted> when I was 14 (28 now). Not knowing it was a private server for years. When I found out it was, there was no official server to support. Out of respect for the game and especially Rednim, I quit playing <deleted> when I found out about an official server. I have been playing, and was waiting to play ROSE Online for almost a year. I guess I need to work on my forum skills because more than anything I just want to know if the end game (aside from dungeons and the classic you need help killing that) will still be playable solo. I don't know what the end game looks like from the base code. I just assumed you inherited game code with broken buffs, but these broken buffs allowed me to play a certain way for years. So seeing them gone, naturally I'm looking for ways to do what I used to.   

Also there was always basic and party buffs. basic buffs could be given to anyone no matter the lvl difference, and were the offensive buffs. It was the party buffs that made the game playable solo, because they were all the defensive buffs. 

I'm more than willing to provide clarification. 

Rednim took possession of the game when the copyright was given. The files/code they received were from the version of naRose prior to the shut down. A few years before the shutdown, there was a major skill update in which they completely nerfed every buff for lower levels and every AoE. This was the paradigm update. The way of buffs adding a flat rate increase was changed to percentage based (which is what we currently have here) to not allow level 1's to one hit Pomics and gain 5 levels. For the party/single target buffs comment, yes, it used to be a thing. Now all buffs (minus the couple that are for the user only) are party buffs. You are able to join a party or form a group with any character at any level to give them all the character buffs, not just some (like you weren't able to provide def/mdef/dodge rate in the single target system). This also covers any summons you may have, reducing the need to single target a player/summon and buffing them individually.

As you may already know (because it was referenced in your initial post), the team decided to separate the buffs from the clerics as to not re-enable a behavior in which new/returning players would require a cleric to level up. If you'd like more information on their explanations, then visit this thread. Furthermore, other aspects were modified to allow gameplay with just one client. The sole reason we are able to dual client is because of the vending system. Initially it was only going to be one client open only. 

Just like you, a lot of players don't enjoy having the buffs separated by characters and I understand their point of view. You're used to a game and it's mechanics and the sudden change is annoying to some. This is evident in this post, this one, and finally, this one. So believe me when I tell you I read threads, I promise. I don't just make decisions for no reason. 

The team, however, is looking at the big picture. If I found myself starting a new game and realized I had to play two instances to have things easier for me, I simply wouldn't play the game. I'll do it here because it's what I'm used to, but that's something not a lot of people care for. To reiterate, we do have buff potions that players are capable of purchasing from vendors. Dealer/Artisans are the ones who craft these items. 

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Multi boxing needs to be removed from gaming existence, this is something I feel most people should agree with. There was nothing worse than a guy scripting 3 bourgs either taking your farming spot or one hitting you in pvp. I like that I idea of only needing one client open. That being said, I assume certain things won't be doable while only running one client and no buffs. This is all I'm trying to figure out, things like how much more difficult or will it even be possible to run through the underground prison by myself to kill Kera and leave. Before I would just log cleric and bourg, buff myself and do it. I can't find any posts that specifically talk about not wanting to party up to achieve max character potential or solo farming. I don't have hours of free time to play, so its taking me a while to get to max level. As I'm slowing grinding my way up, its looking like mobs will not get easier but harder and my dream of solo farming will be exactly that, just a dream. I can not think of a single game, mmorpg included, that makes you feel like you need to be in a party to lvl up. Again even if you don't need to, for most people it feels like you do. I understand wanting to bring social aspects into the game, but don't understand why that comes in the form of hurting the solo or duo players. Solo players are at a natural numbers disadvantage already anyway, why hurt them more. 80% of the game should be playable solo or it has a set life expectancy. Just waiting for the day when enough people become less interested and don't play as much. Then you can't do anything because nobody wants to party with you to do something they've already done 100 times.

 

 

13 hours ago, Avatar said:

the team decided to separate the buffs from the clerics as to not re-enable a behavior in which new/returning players would require a cleric to level up.

Everyone seems to think you need one in your party, but now its just to heal. Now the behavior for new/returning players will be the requiring of a party to lvl up. Which has to be worse in the long run for the game. What happens with the steam release and later when people that have never played want to try it out. They are going to have to party up all the way to lvl 250 for an enjoyable experience? This is hard for me to do with years of experience.

Edited by merc2
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5 hours ago, merc2 said:

You can hardly kill two whoopies with food going and still have to pop a squat to regen before going at another. Leading to hours spent getting from lvl 20 to 30. That is not enjoyable or appealing to new players.

20-30 is like the fastest 10 levels in the game, just do the zant quests lol

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36 minutes ago, Lulullaby said:

20-30 is like the fastest 10 levels in the game, just do the zant quests lol

Not really the point, so ill just edit it out. The point is that the whoopie will whop you with ease.

 

Answer this for me. I've been playing on three chars at the same time. Arti and raider on desktop and cleric on laptop. Its almost easier and more enjoyable, even with the weird dual client delay thing, with two clients auto attacking and the cleric healing to lvl up than it is on any one of those solo. Why is that? 

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7 minutes ago, merc2 said:

Not really the point, so ill just edit it out. The point is that the whoopie will whop you with ease.

 

Answer this for me. I've been playing on three chars at the same time. Arti and raider on desktop and cleric on laptop. Its almost easier and more enjoyable, even with the weird dual client delay thing, with two clients auto attacking and the cleric healing to lvl up than it is on any one of those solo. Why is that? 

The current rule is 2 clients per person. The fact that you have 3 clients open means you are in violation of this rule and could potentially be banned.

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So I can't even play on my brother's laptop to help him out when he's not online? that's a shame and not very social friendly. You will never know who is playing on three clients. To ban me alone would be Ludacris when you have no idea if other people are doing it, because acting like they aren't is ignorant. I bet 50% of the shops in junon are on laptops, while the desktop is free to use two clients if wanted. But that's off topic, I didn't even know this was a rule and will happily follow it.  You don't want to address the fact that its arguably easier and more rewarding to play on three characters in a game you are trying to make to be meant for one? I cant even imagine trying or wanting to play two characters at once on Wow or any other game I've played in the realm of the same genre. 

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26 minutes ago, niwa523x said:

For being a Full Support Cleric for this version.. the devs make the cleric more useful in the party.. Clerics now can focus healing the party.. Thank you for dividing the buffs to each specific classes/job.


This is is why the topic should not have been merged. He isn't reading reading the thread. This has nothing to do with what I'm trying to talk about. Cleric was always the healer, could never do a dungeon with out one.

Edited by merc2
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5 minutes ago, merc2 said:


This is is why the topic should not have been merged. He isn't reading reading the thread. This has nothing to do with what I'm trying to talk about. 

Just say'in that I very thank to the devs because they put really good decision to distribute the buffs to all the classes.. or rather than devs should remove the Dual Client so that there's no more Cleric Slave and focus to the main character. *laughing so hard to this topic*

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3 minutes ago, niwa523x said:

Just say'in that I very thank to the devs because they put really good decision to distribute the buffs to all the classes.. or rather than devs should remove the Dual Client so that there's no more Cleric Slave and focus to the main character. *laughing so hard to this topic*

I'm saying that you would never have seen this post if the topic wasn't merged. You didn't read through the whole thread and try to add to the conversation. 

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5 minutes ago, merc2 said:

I'm saying that you would never have seen this post if the topic wasn't merged. You didn't read through the whole thread and try to add to the conversation. 

Better to remove the Dual Client in the Official release.. to end this topic *LOL* hahahaha

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1 hour ago, Zurn said:

I would say that food/potions actually need to be looked at again to make them better so they are a viable alternative to muse/cleric healing 

i heartily and loudly second this

 

and i'll throw out, i'm also a solo player and always appreciate someone speaking up about the issues that come with this playstyle. groups tend to really take me out of the fun and force someone else's pace on me, so i avoid them (at many costs lol).

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On 12/29/2022 at 1:05 AM, merc2 said:

Hmm where to start?  I don't mind the cleric changes. What bothers me about it is that I have to have one of each class in the party to get a full buff, why?? Yes its an mmo but every mmo has solo players or small groups of 2-3 people. But now this is the only mmo that makes you feel like you have to play with a decent sized group to do regular world content. Also the idea that this stops "buff slaves" is just a dream that will never happen, as long as there is a way to buff another player. there will be alt characters with max charm and base stat to get the best buff possible. with their only purpose being to give 4 buffs to the party and then go afk waiting to be brought back into the party for a rebuff.  The buff system is unique to ROSE and drastically changing it could be good but also could prove to be bad in the long run. Has there been any thought into just removing them completely or trying an approach where buffs aren't shared by the party. Giving each class there own buffs would make them even more unique. Could even give cleric access to weaker versions of all the buffs. in conclusion, I think there is more work to be done here with the buff system. I've been playing different versions of ROSE for over a decade, and have many friends that won't even try this one because of the buff changes. I like the idea but also hate being forced to play with strangers that don't even speak the same language half of the time. 

Better to remove the Dual Client and focus on the Main Character =D

Edited by niwa523x
didn't see it was already move the topic to suggestion section
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Sure I would love to not have to worry about dual client and focus on a main character. Certain core features of ROSE punish that playstyle. How do I vend and play at the same time? How can I have a crafter to make me money but also a viable pvper with one character? Other games where this is the case you can do it all on one character, you simply can not in ROSE.

Edited by Cam Rellim
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