Recent "Balance" Changes Discussion and Opinions

[Code Magick]

    In light of the recent patch which changed a few things many people have strong opinions of, I've decided to make this post (my first one) to see where everyone stands and give the team a place to have clear visibility on the topic. This is mainly to shed light on the fact that there are better, more concise and fair methods of attempting to balance gameplay other than simply removing things for some after others have abused and benefited from it.

Quote

Reduced "Give A Dog Another Bone" reward to 100k

     This is a sore topic from players on both sides of this. The players who have made their money, want to continue making their money or have made enough money that they have decided it doesn't matter to them. The players who don't have the same time to invest in this game and are still going through levels trying to reach a point of being able to earn their own significant amount of money are bothered and affected. Whether this was done in an attempt to combat RMT (it won't) or to simply balance the game economy (it won't), this only negatively affects those who won't have an opportunity at any significant method of gaining a respectable amount of money at that level now. Losing money rewards on quests beginning on Luna already hits the wallet hard when you're having to upgrade armor/weapons and don't have that source of quest reward money coming in. All of this only to arrive at another choked point of having to spend even more time you already couldn't invest into trying to make enough money to catch up to the prices inflated by those who can buy things at any price. If this change is considered appropriate and permanent, there should be something to level the playing field whether that's some sort of wipe/rollback or percentage reduction in currently held zuly amounts or items stored.

     This isn't the first negatively impacting change of its kind. When the rewards for the Krawfy quest on Kenji Beach was reduced from 100k to 50k, the damage was already done and players had already spent days farming that quest or leveling different characters through there to reap the rewards later players would never see. These players then abused the Bone quest and gained an even larger gap that has no chance of being caught up to by players following behind now.

Quote

Updated Clown Quest Restrictions (lvl 50-60)

     This was an even worse way to handle this situation than the Bone quest solution in my opinion. Regular players coming from behind now cannot go straight from blue mobs (Moldies) to another quest party because the limit has been raised to lvl 50 now. They would essentially be grinding the same mobs, but for kill exp only now until lvl 50. The real solution to handle higher lvl players "ks'ing" (Was hardly ever the case since regular parties were near the NPC) mobs for this quest with a lower lvl character gaining the rewards would have been to just remove quest item earning from a lvl gap of 20 or more in parties just like exp currently is.

    

     There are many other methods these concerns could have been balanced or rectified more fairly, but were not for some reason. At this point, I'd welcome a reset after Early Access and lose what I have already earned and worked for than to perpetually be behind those who have more time than I do with no way of utilizing the same methods of trying to reach the level earlier players have reached. This is not an issue of players being further ahead in the game than anyone else. It's more of a ladder was removed so now later players don't even have the opportunity to climb it the same as earlier players without the effects of those earlier methods also being balanced properly.

Edited January 10 by Code Magick

[NeverAlone]

The easiest option to fix the chaos is just revert the quest reward to how it was originally. 500k zulie per submission with the chewed bone quest. 

[DoubleRose]

As I've said across various threads:

• Smooth out zulie income
• Upper level limits on quests, not lower level
• Generally complaining about being poor

Wipe the game? Stop whining. These things aren't going to matter a month from now and it is better that they are fixed already. The bone quest had insane numbers because it was from an era of lots of inflation. The numbers are still high. 100k now is worth more than 500k at the end of na rose.

[Suprdank]

I was about to make a post about the zulie quest issue, but u worded it way better my guy. Personally, I think the game is less enjoyable when you have to waste time spamming quest for hours/days just to buy a Wooden Backseat for 3mil when they shouldn't be more than 100k-200k. I also want them to just bring back the original rewards instead of resetting because that's erasing someone's time and effort. If someone is making a couple mill in a day so what? They're doing the work. You're going to see overpriced items from players regardless. but at least then u have a better chance to get it. 

[Snow]

they reiterated somewhere on their site or in this forum that they are not wiping the progress of players who played their early access.

the economy will adjust after a month or 2.

[NuuBee]

1 hour ago, Suprdank said:

I was about to make a post about the zulie quest issue, but u worded it way better my guy. Personally, I think the game is less enjoyable when you have to waste time spamming quest for hours/days just to buy a Wooden Backseat for 3mil when they shouldn't be more than 100k-200k. I also want them to just bring back the original rewards instead of resetting because that's erasing someone's time and effort. If someone is making a couple mill in a day so what? They're doing the work. You're going to see overpriced items from players regardless. but at least then u have a better chance to get it. 

i bought my wooden backseat just for 300k. now every wooden backseat it cost 2m+ and steel backseat is 2.9m or 3m

[Clester]

I agree Reset all levels of characters but not the zulie item earned / item mall if that's okay heheheheh!

[Suprdank]

3 minutes ago, NuuBee said:

i bought my wooden backseat just for 300k. now every wooden backseat it cost 2m+ and steel backseat is 2.9m or 3m

Even 300k is ok but 2-3mil? Smh nobody can control how much someone sells an item for. Either way ppl shouldn't be increasing prices just because quests give more zulie. Those same ppl have access to the same quests. Prices only increase when either ppl are dumb enough to continue buying or too rich to care.

[Snow]

1 minute ago, Suprdank said:

Even 300k is ok but 2-3mil? Smh nobody can control how much someone sells an item for. Either way ppl shouldn't be increasing prices just because quests give more zulie. Those same ppl have access to the same quests. Prices only increase when either ppl are dumb enough to continue buying or too rich to care.

AFAIK, the steel backseat schematic and the wooden schematic are only obtainable in valor shops and not droppable by monsters,

and the only artisan that can craft that are level 200 and above.

buy the backseat after 6months if you want 300k.

[Artsy]

Why in the world would you want to reset everyone again.  So many people had invested so much time into the game already.  

[Code Magick]

Just now, Artsy said:

Why in the world would you want to reset everyone again.  So many people had invested so much time into the game already.  

Also true for Alpha or Beta testing games that get reset at the end. This Early Access and extended testing and bug finding is essentially a Beta/extended stress test.

[Artsy]

10 minutes ago, Code Magick said:

Also true for Alpha or Beta testing games that get reset at the end. This Early Access and extended testing and bug finding is essentially a Beta/extended stress test.

 

Yeah.  Lets just reset everybody.  That’ll make everybody happy

[Code Magick]

3 minutes ago, Artsy said:

 

Yeah.  Lets just reset everybody.  That’ll make everybody happy

So either the people who lost access to the zuly making activities the higher lvls got have to shut up and deal with it and be unhappy, or nothing? How about everyone just be unhappy? That's fair.

[Artsy]

15 minutes ago, Code Magick said:

So either the people who lost access to the zuly making activities the higher lvls got have to shut up and deal with it and be unhappy, or nothing? How about everyone just be unhappy? That's fair.

Yup.  Reset everyone’s character 1 month into the game.  What a wonderful idea.  Screw all those people that’s put hundreds of hours into the game since day 1.  

[Code Magick]

1 minute ago, Artsy said:

Yup.  Reset everyone’s character 1 month into the game.  What a wonderful idea.  Screw all those people that’s put hundreds of hours into the game since day 1.  

Just like some people not having time to grind as much as others, how is you putting hundreds of hours into the game our fault/problem?

[Sumbudy]

24 minutes ago, Artsy said:

 

Yeah.  Lets just reset everybody.  That’ll make everybody happy

Absolutely not lol. For the people who are barely lvl 100 sure it would matter, for the rest of us who spent countless hours of grinding and liking to get to where we are, not so much.

 

there are lots of ways to make zulie, you just have to know how the market works and what’s in demand

[Flagrant]

1 hour ago, NuuBee said:

i bought my wooden backseat just for 300k. now every wooden backseat it cost 2m+ and steel backseat is 2.9m or 3m

if you got a backseat for 300k someone misspriced trying to sell for 3m. It didn't inflate 10x, someone made a mistake.

[Artsy]

7 minutes ago, Code Magick said:

Just like some people not having time to grind as much as others, how is you putting hundreds of hours into the game our fault/problem?

and why should It be our fault that you didn’t have time to play the game?  Many of us spent our free time to grind what we have now.  Sorry that you didn’t have the free time like many of us did.  

[Redinis]

3 hours ago, DoubleRose said:

As I've said across various threads:

• Smooth out zulie income
• Upper level limits on quests, not lower level
• Generally complaining about being poor

Wipe the game? Stop whining. These things aren't going to matter a month from now and it is better that they are fixed already. The bone quest had insane numbers because it was from an era of lots of inflation. The numbers are still high. 100k now is worth more than 500k at the end of na rose.

This is very accurate. And the inflation is happening in our server as we speak because of huge zulie printing machines like the bone quest. Things will only get more and more expensive because of it, keeping the people who aren't at the bone quest abusing it from buying normal things. ( the 300k seat being 2m+ already on our server ) The influx from repeatable quests is way too high and should be addressed as they are doing. 

[Invinciblez]

Ok I guess I'll make a post and explain my thinking......... So basically I don't think the server needs a wipe/reset. I think the developers need to sit and think about the logical progression for each player. There's a job in the corporate world that deals with pensions. It makes average assumptions about your raises/promotions and the expected amount they'll have to put into a pension fund for you. Devs of this game need to just think how expensive they want end game items to be, how long it should take someone who is farming 12 hours a day to get. ANYWAYS: As an avid chewed bones farmer here's my progression and my thinking:

This game was released December 13. I started later, December 16 or 17. Level 1-80 Junon was fine. I left Krawfies with something like 2.8M, which was less than everyone else. I entirely skipped clowns and I was literally exp farming krawfies because yolo higher level drops. Luna was a zulie desert land. Farm dreadnaughts then penguins/winter mauls then penguin commanders. No zulie at all really. I looted some runes and if those are 5th grade then I literally still have one stack left of one of the kinds. 

Went to Eldeon at level 120. Again, no zulie. By this time you start to actually feel the lack of zulie. PVP opens up at Sikuku Ruins so I wanted half decent gear, which is where your zulie goes to die. Not to mention you're basically due for an upgrade at this point, you're fighting tons of spiders by the time you're 160+. Anyways, by the time I was 180, I was doing the Orlo quest with a friend and I literally had to sell him one of the ancient tablets for 30k instead of giving it to him for free, because I needed to buy scrolls to travel. So I had zero zulie. 

Stepped into Orlo, people told me about the 14 and 10M orlo quests. Told me about chewed bones. I got level 200 doing handins with everyone else. Then I stopped at level 200, I did the pharoah key quest and handed in the chewed bones I looted from level 180-200 (maybe around 4-6? who knows). 

Here is where the debate starts and my thoughts and my behaviors. After I confirmed the chewed bones repeatable was real, and I got the 14M and 10M from the quests, I knew that heavy inflation was coming whenever everyone else (whoever was remaining in Eldeon and earlier) got to Orlo, they'd farm chewed bones and do the quests just like me. So I stopped leveling at 200, and went solo farming chewed bones. I got level 200-230 just from solo farming chewed bones, doing the hand in only when I was taking a break or felt like I needed a win (level). The 30M zulie quest paid for my unbreakable wrath unique spear. I wanted to farm earlier than "everyone else" in orlo who would wait until 250 to start farming chewed bones, and also the people who were in eldeon/luna/junon. 

So my logic was to stop leveling at 200, farm everything I could and beat everyone who was still leveling through orlo hand ins, even if they got to orlo before me, before real inflation hit. 

When I started there were 2-3 other chewed bone farmers. I was able to buy:

1. Unbreakable Wrath (200 unique spear, 28M)

2. Substats (I got lucky and bought one 25 STR 60 Crit for 1M, and another 25 STR 40 AP for 9M). I don't remember how I got my other substats, maybe I looted, maybe I bought one more for 10M or so, but I have something like 4/6 perfect substats done. 

3. Level 12 Malachite Baguette (12M)

After I bought the Malachite Baguette, I just farmed a lot. I was single target farming with just regular attacks, so it increased my farm speed decidely. I didn't feel like min-maxing efficiency and learning to AOE. I looted some substats too and sold those for 7-12M. I ended up with something like 75M as my peak zulie count. It's not that high, I was only single targeting everything. By the end I started to AOE  because single target killing under the inflationary regime was not going to cut it, so I could actually start earning around 25M in probably 5-6 hours. However: I was at the end of my run. I was getting near "finished" with the game. Reaching my ambitions. The Malachite Baguette purchase was really big, really big power boost for me. Got my substats done. All I needed was unique accessories and maybe 2 more gems. So my ambitions were starting to run out. Here is where I started to worry about inflation a lot. Here's the thing: My (and all chewed bone farmers) efforts could be counted in days. I got to Orlo probably December 26 or so. Today is now January 9 (and I stopped farming chewed bones and basically haven't logged in since January 6 or 7). You can count in days how much that is. That's only 12 days or so. Even if I farmed day and night (and I farmed a lot), if you break that in half it's only 24 days for people to catch up to me. Not to mention I'm a champion, raiders have higher kill speed, and mages have better AOE. So if you adjusted for all that, it would only take 10 days playing as much as I did, or around 20 days if you cut the play time in half. 

Important thing to note: PEOPLE WERE ALREADY OVERCHARGING ON UNIQUE ITEMS (because they've played this game before). Part of the logic was to buy everything that was underpriced, because literally nobody had money. I viewed myself (and the other chewed bone farmers) as literally printing money into the economy. If everyone left Krawfies like me with only 3M (most probably left with more than that), that tells you how much zulie is in the economy. Nobody could afford the 80-100M that people were asking for on the unique accessories and gems. I could farm chewed bones (raw zulie) or items (bosses etc). I chose raw zulie, because I knew even if everyone had boss drop items, they could not sell to anyone other than the few people who were hardcore chewed bone farmers. I also knew that unique accessories have a higher ceiling, but are literally weaker than Arua/Hebarn accessories with perfect substats, until we can start getting unique substats.........  I thought when dungeons open up, that's when we'll start looting unique substats. I didn't know when this was going to occur, I thought weeks or months. So I had 75M zulie, and I was scared of inflation because 12 days of farming is simply 12 days of farming. I was nearing the end of my ambition/efforts. 

Remember: My goal was to buy everything that was cheap because nobody had zulie, before they inflated. Especially because the gear progression would normally be weapon -> accessories -> gems/substats. People should "run out of money" before they get to accessories/gems unless they farm themselves. The item I was really looking for was Peridot 13. I thought we would see the first one looted within 5 days (of January 4th lets say). I tried to make it to 100M Zulie + a few unique items to add on. I found out through a streamers chat that Peridot 10 is the max........ so that took a lot of wind out of my sails. Anyways, since Peridot 13 didn't exist anymore, I didn't really know what I wanted anymore, I was nearing the end of my ambition. I was still very concerned about the coming inflation, because remember: 12 days is simply 12 days. If I stopped farming, someone ambitious from Eldeon could farm for 20 days and have more than me. 

So anyways I started looking for unique accessories to buy, since Peridot 13 didn't exist, and I didn't really have any other gems I wanted. So I bought a Wanderer's Earring for 55M. It's the 240 endgame champion unique accessory. Initially I only wanted to pay 15-45M for it, because it is literally weaker than Arua/Hebarn accessories until we started getting unique substats. But since the Peridot 13 was gone, I needed something else. This thing could be an inflation hedge, because if things do continue to inflate, it could become worth 200M+.

4. Wanderer Earring (240 unique earring, 55M)

Then I had 20M left. Remember: No one other than chewed bones farmers or maybe people who dual cliented 2 characters to Orlo and did the 30M orlo quest, would have 60M+. So I was able to buy that Wanderer Earring for 55M, and I would just sit and wait until dungeons open, where I thought (and think) we can loot low level uniques to get substats. This wasn't enough to help me keep myself inflation-hedged in terms of how rich I am. Because I would be using that Wanderer's Earring. If I ever decided to get my last piece (Wanderer's ring or something like that) I'd have to pay the inflation adjusted price. So anyways, with my last 20M I was lucky to find a Travelers Ring in vending for 20M. 

5. Traveler's Ring (240 unique ring for mages, 20M)

I thought travelers ring is worth 80-100M in "today's" zulie, and would grow as we get access to unique substats. Offered to sell it a few times at 70M, for the people who were willing to take the risk and buy it now, wait until dungeons open and we start looting substats (could be weeks, months from now). So I offered a discount for someone willing to do that (also helps me take them out of the market if they have no more zulie left and theres a good gem I want xDD). No one took the offer. In fact just as it was when I was on the other side..... few people COULD take the offer. So now I have an extra Travelers ring for mages, which I'm using as an inflation hedge, and now dungeons are open and we can start looting unique substats........ I didn't know for certain since this is my first time playing Rose, but people told me "we would be shocked to see what drops in dungeons"........ So I thought it'd probably be unique substats, and maybe the rare 200+. 

And it appears I was right, from what the market is now posting up from dungeon drops. Lots of low level uniques with substats to use a scroll on. There are some unique skillbooks which I'll probably be able to loot or something myself. 

So anyways the point is: The early chewed bone farmers like myself have between 0-175M. 

Champion: Lower damage than raider (single target). Lower AOE than mage. I made 75M in raw zulie (still have 25M Destruction Blades + 10M Protection amulet + a few perfect gr 8 substats to sell worth 25M)

Raider: Higher damage than Champion. No AOE (from what I know?). They can have 120M or so in raw zulie. 

Mages: High AOE damage. I imagine these people can have 175M in raw zulie if they farmed as much as me and the raiders did- but they didn't. Perhaps its the extra effort but mages didnt farm as much as champ/raiders. There were 1-2 mages I saw during my chewed bone farming. None farmed as many hours as me and the raiders did, but they have very high kill speed and AOE.

If 240 unique accessories were being sold for 80-100M (no one bought), bought by me at 55M, then even if you assume the price drops to 15-20M after chewed bone gets nerfed, that 175M mage could buy 10 unique accessories. 

It's hardly game breaking, and doesn't require a wipe. It's not that serious. BTW I'm holding one of the traveler rings and I'll sell to these pricks for full price, because I faced an OP mage in PVP and it's true they're IMBA. So no more discount for them -.- 

Anyways theres my take. It's really not my best piece of writing. It's my personal experience/plan/bragging about my big brain thinking mixed with the actual situation. I think if they increase zulie in luna/eldeon and put chewed bones at 300k, everything is fine. 

This game is an "inflation" game. It's not a "resources are scarce" game. A single use 6000+ HP potion is something like 5000 zulie. And your drop rate to get loot isnt 100%, so this game needs to have zulie just be abundant. But Orlo zulie compared to luna/eldeon especially with the 30M orlo quest is OP. Because people's view of zulie is completely shaped by their Luna/Eldeon experience. Then they go to Orlo and it's a complete jackpot. 
 

ps (edit 12 hours later) the reason I was so scared of inflation is because I am not planning on playing this game continuously long term… I’m not someone who thinks it’s ideal to get off work, rush home and play games 5-6 hours until bed time. I also played games like ragnarok online which is another inflation game, end game items reach into the billions. Hundreds of millions at the least for end game items. So even if this game has just a fraction of that- call it 200M, 300M. The chewed bones will not scale with that. If you earned 20M per day it’d take you 10-15 days of farming for one item. That’s perfectly acceptable IMO, just like the Rose Online gearing poll showed: most people want gearing to take 400+ hours. But IIIIIIII personally was scared of inflation because I was reaching the end of my ambition, which means I had to get my accessories done before it was too late. If I stayed in zulie then it’d be inflated away. 
 

and if the devs are reading this: the fact that I am not looking to play this game continuously long term isn’t proof that you should make this game take less time to gear. There’s a reason people are playing this old game instead of the newer ones- it’s because newer ones are too easy and maybe also too dark and dreary. I’m just one man, and if I want to conquer the world in real life then that’s why I won’t be looking to farm 4-6 hours per day for months to get fully geared and fully levelled. 
 

truth is I was initially planning on coming and just being a noob that plays 2 hours a day weekly averaged max, but then found during Christmas break that thriving was within reach, so I went for it. And my in game ambitions lasted me 12 days of heavy farming. Whether my plan was enough to gear me fully remains to be seen. 

Edited January 10 by Invinciblez

[Code Magick]

56 minutes ago, Artsy said:

and why should It be our fault that you didn’t have time to play the game?  Many of us spent our free time to grind what we have now.  Sorry that you didn’t have the free time like many of us did.  

I'm not saying it's anyone's fault. One is equal and truly balanced (wipe) and the other is unfair and unbalanced (nerf the quest(s), but the earned money remains). It's just these two things make either part of the community unhappy and the other makes everyone unhappy.

[Ueyama]

1 hour ago, Code Magick said:

Just like some people not having time to grind as much as others, how is you putting hundreds of hours into the game our fault/problem?

Because Rednim told everyone that there won't be a reset. Many wouldn't have put so many hours into the game when they would have known there would be a reset.

[Nikkow]

How come a reset is fair? We've earned what we have. Please be considerate.

Edited January 10 by Nikkow

[Twice.Sana]

Just close the whole game if you guys want to do another reset rofl.

[bobo]

Reset or change quest reward back