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How will we attract new players... What will be a driving factor towards growing the population?


Gangsta D
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I've been thinking of this for some time. There is obviously a decent handful of players looking forward to returning to the game, its clearly evident in the Discord channel with numbers rising daily... 

THING is, how will the dev's and community push towards really growing the population of the server, especially with now, having a  bunch of some-what established private servers having a decent amount of players. What will get them to change, how will more people join besides word of mouth and what can we do to really make a really fruitful abundant community?

 

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IMO, I think this game could attract people who enjoy games like Stardew Valley, Animal Crossing, etc. Cute graphics, farming/grinding to get certain things, customization, and not as difficult as other MMORPGs. If advertised correctly (maybe TikTok, and other social medias), this game could bring in a lot more people. 

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Someone has to spice this up, I know i'll get a lot of heat. I care about this game too much, and I have butchered the english language.....

;TLDR;  I am against cleric nerfs, while for level squish which i think will solve cleric buff dominance on its own. If we want to move forward we need to quit doing "bandaids" to problems imo. Removing "core" is not a solution, buff all else like the level squish is doing. 
Nerfs feel bad and can ruin the unique side of the game. Buff everything else so what you hate is not as important.

If we can really pull through on a lot of the huge backend work that is being done I think having a better solid core will really allow growing towards goals that no official or private server has really done before.

  • Actually working towards 7 plantes
    • I think the tools that have been around before and the fact that everyone has been working with such legacy code has really killed the effort and drive to be able to make new planets come to fruition. We saw even the otherwise fairly interesting Oro update at the end of NA but that was at such a cost to the development team that it was hard to keep that sustained due to the pain involved.
  • Re-invigorating combat in PVM with improved AI
    • Only perhaps on new planets to allow both the old and new fellings of the game to both live.
    • Improved AI and combat mechanics allows multiple wins.
      1. Make bots, especially the super basic, irrelevant and not useful.
      2. Makes party play more interesting instead of just having to feel like a human bot, with your other human bot friends just spamming skills mindlessly.
      3. Fun in thoughtful, not just grindy play -- just making combat more "annoying" with new mechanics but give incentives for correct play.
        • Buffs towards play always feels better than nerfs towards not playing a certain way
        • On that line setting up scenarios where doing correct play gives a buff to say damage against monsters. If you stop them from charging an attack/skill/buff:
          • Increased damage against the monster
          • Increased skill damage against the monster
          • Monster recieves a nerf/debuff in attack damage/skill damage/movement/attack spd/crit damage/etc... etc...
        • Some of the dungeons exemplify requiring a silence/kick but the players don't get a buff but only not a nerf or practically an instant wipe. It was incredibly hard for new players to know/figure this out without prior help/guidance.
      4. Allows less of a pure meta, and more interesting diversity in builds.
        • Not always perfect but allowing more options and slowly buffing up to what is considered the "meta" allows more builds to feel useful and worth being unique in the right circumstances.
        • A pure meta rewards more "bot" style play and a known grind which players can calculate completely and can also then be demoralized by.
          • An example of this can be the valor/rune system at the end of NA imo. While unique combinations were allowed it seemed quite apparent there was a meta / just upgraded the highest = best. It would have been nice to see a move towards allowing more build/mechanic styles of play than whoever was willing to grind forever had the best.
          • I really loved and promoted the idea of the elemental system and also was in favor of the rune system. I still to this day think they were such good attempts at going after diversifying things but especially the rune system favored grind of unique or interesting thought imo.
            • The problem for the elemental system is it felt bolted on but very opt in and never gave enough true unique "rock/paper/sciccors" style. I pushed directly hard for a system close to this in the forums and I feel bad saying how it didn't work out imo.
            • I am fairly certain I said at the time I like the idea but one of the worst problems of it was this was not an active decision it was a static decision that could not easily change and just like allocating skill points incorrectly could lead to needing to reroll or spend money on something that as a new player you could not know before and just made the "soul" crushing feeling of how much grind towards the "meta" one might just have to completely do again.
          • The worst part about this was a new player could easily calculate how long it would take and quickly found they would have to just purely grind over think of new an interesting ways to combine things to get to the top. 
          • ^^ Very much my opinion and i'm sure many others could disagree.
          • I was very much heartened in the livestreams when the dev team talked about how they wanted sets to feel unique instead of being thrown to the side after a certain level and really got the feeling that they would love to see a more "Guild Wars 1" style of armor sets in regard where the effort you did before was not always ruined but new things allow new possibilities and hopefully unique group setups!

I  pushed against the solution to multi-client is just to take it away, or restrict it. It is a solution that only takes away from what players had and does not solve any of the pain points that players felt.
With an improved AI/combat system you can take away multi-client by the simple fact that no one can effectively do it anymore over a ban/nerf. I always liked it because in a game that essentially required players to be human bots this was a way to make the combat much more interesting.


When you are multi clienting more than 2 players in a group and huge aoe/boss strikes you all of the sudden -- strategic choice of when to heal, when and who to aoe with and when to get aggro back matter and makes the whole combat experience more interesting.
Maybe it is time for a big mage aoe, but if I do that they may get aggro and die so it better be enough aoe quickly that whatever is left is essentially finished off. Maybe I need to mage aoe then champion aoe then tank aoe quickly to finish off? Maybe I need to only champion and tank aoe while healing and wait for the right moment to mage aoe.


This does not happen in a group with real players almost ever because even if there is a "right" moment to imploy this strategy the entire game has been everyone spam all buttons at all times and any attempt to implement this will be futile with almost any group now. OR since everyone can actually keep up their rotation you don't hit the scenario where you need to more finely strategize because either you are too low/geared and die or are good and win either way.

Some of the most fun times I had were with groups where we were slightly above what we should be doing and we did work together and figure out a strategy but in most cases it was still one or many that were just "botting" and one or two that actually attempted strategy. I may be somewhat on the fringe compared to a lot of others that made deep friend ties and did have full groups on their way up, second + ect time up, had the group of friends that they could effectively and enjoyably do this.

In my times of having always played again and again as a new player I always seemed to find the same woes in other new players that I conversed with along the way.


We mainly were just so thankful when we found a group period.

Secondly if you find a group that wasn't just afk / bot spamming then it was even better.
However these times were so few and far in between it was incredibly demoralizing when "maxed" players just said oh it doesn't take long to level at all.... Well maybe for you with the friends/gear/buffs.... it felt incredibly disconnected from the reality that new players actually dealt with.


These same players demanded nerf clerics..... and multi-client.... and bots..... 


While all players can agree they don't want bots, it is beyond unconscionable to think that fun is derived from nerfs and bans. Multi-client and botting were sympthoms of a "meta" set by "Aura" and when that fails as it always does instead of buffing everything else up set a new meta.

 Multi-client at a bare minimum allowed some of us to level faster than we ever had before. Botting groups took us in and we could sit there even if we didn't talk but on the refreshing and surprisingly more often than thought occasion they might have botted but then spent the time talking with you and giving advice and friend connections that you desperately wanted but couldn't get till that point.


I know this explicitly because the hardest leveling experience is always after the "core" group of players have already fully leveled and now the fields were ..... completely empty and you were there alone, no friends, no help.... except the occasional literally 5x help of a buffer (for 30 mins) who might again even hang out talk and give advice as well as connections.


I have played both sides many times, unlike many very core players that stuck around I played other games forgot my accounts/etc and had to come back because I loved the unique aspects of the game and had to do it again.
I also remember when I was maxed and how it took no time with friends I had made and characters to level alts. I loved picking up and helping new players along the way but they were only on for so long.... if they were gone for 6 hours that I had been on since I was already outside the level range and couldn't help them anymore.

I've pushed against stripping cleric buffs.

Playing "Aura" and deciding completely what the new "meta" is, does not solve the problem. Instead one could slightly buff everything else to make them less important overall instead of nerfing what players had before and many liked. The ideal would be to slowly buff almost every style to the point where it is actually hard to decifer what the "meta" is. This would reward unique thought and integration of other unique players/styles to find an interesting new path that maybe no one thought of before.

 

I make this plea because I have played so many types of mmos to isometric rpgs and I have seen this problem everywhere. Everyone says in an almost nebulous fashion they have no idea how to attract/keep new players. Maximizing fun keeps players, new and old. Banning/nerfing are blights proving the system is not as fun as we idealize.

All of this said... I am sorry if I have galvanized. But I have felt that way for over a decade about not only this game but more. I have seen some games do this better, some worse. 

Making us purely like other "newer" games does not solve the problem because they run on hype and graphics in a lot of cases. We can do better keep what was fun and unique while moving towards a more varied and interesting style that is in line with this game's roots.

I honestly feel we have a setup currently that can do the best attempt seen yet to do that. We can in many senses satisfy the Irose players and all of the old guard while making the game truly unique instead of copy cat, copy paste, high graphic over content focus that has ruined so many games with more funding, developers, and hype.

I make this post as a plea of all of the gripes new players have said along with those that have spent so much effort thinking about what and why we all know this game is a magnum opus in many ways. Proved by the fact we can still get all sorts of people from all around the world at all ages to still come back hoping for that feeling we all know this game has and will give us again.

Sorry i'm oppiniated, and many will disagree. In a group as unique as this is I hope for no less.

I was at best controversal when i've brought this up in years past. Despite almost certainly rubbing many the wrong way, we want this vigorous debate as it will make us stronger.

If you read this far you are a champion and thanks for your time!

Cheers

Edited by MittelDank
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Stardew Valley and Animal Crossing are not, to my knowledge, games oriented around combat mechanics. Someone should correct me on this since I know very little about these games. I'm just extending my knowledge of Farmville 2: Country Escape outward.

My argument is that people who like what Rose currently has will come if the food smells good, i.e. if what we have right now works, is bug-free and barriers of entry are removed or lowered. If you cook it, they will come.

People who play the games mentioned earlier are there for mechanics outside of combat. Do we even have anything interesting like that in Rose, or is everything about killing mostly innocent monsters? That's likely not very interesting to a Stardew Valley player. 

 

I reckon if we build a bridge connecting these two metas we'll make something that not only will attract those target markets, but that is new and fresh in the genre.

Has anyone ever thought of fully integrating players into the NPC economy? Funds moved about that can be robbed or protected, goods supplying NPC stores ferried or couriered by players or even PRODUCED by (literal) farmer players?

 

It's a radical shift, even to think about for some people, and arguments can be made that adjusting the core of this game now is pointless. I know people on this forum who would literally instantly dismiss this idea (and others proposing radical changes) with one word. "No." They believe that what we have is enough. I put it to you that what we have is not enough, not for players who are already invested in rewarding games like Stardew Valley, Animal Crossing, Farmville 2CE and similar games in the space. There's no draw with what we have right now.

If you want to live in the past and keep recycling old content, feel free - but don't expect the world to beat a path and come knocking at your door.

Edited by Bobbity
sleepy typos
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4 hours ago, Bobbity said:

People who play the games mentioned earlier are there for mechanics outside of combat. Do we even have anything interesting like that in Rose, or is everything about killing mostly innocent monsters? That's likely not very interesting to a Stardew Valley player. 

I reckon if we build a bridge connecting these two metas we'll make something that not only will attract those target markets, but that is new and fresh in the genre.

Has anyone ever thought of fully integrating players into the NPC economy? Funds moved about that can be robbed or protected, goods supplying NPC stores ferried or couriered by players or even PRODUCED by (literal) farmer players?

It's a radical shift, even to think about for some people, and arguments can be made that adjusting the core of this game now is pointless. I know people on this forum who would literally instantly dismiss this idea (and others proposing radical changes) with one word. "No." They believe that what we have is enough. I put it to you that what we have is not enough, not for players who are already invested in rewarding games like Stardew Valley, Animal Crossing, Farmville 2CE and similar games in the space. There's no draw with what we have right now.

If you want to live in the past and keep recycling old content, feel free - but don't expect the world to beat a path and come knocking at your door.

If we were to attempt to attract the Stardew Valley players I agree you would need a fusion. There have been servers that implemented mining and other menial collect raw material mechanics. Arguably.... half heartdly imo. Thus you don't really get either to enjoy it.

I think your point on,

Quote

Has anyone ever thought of fully integrating players into the NPC economy? Funds moved about that can be robbed or protected, goods supplying NPC stores ferried or couriered by players or even PRODUCED by (literal) farmer players?

Is the most likely to make a lot of sense for this game. As there is a large player economy bit, some  just do pvm to build up trading empires. The connection beyond pure player to player trading and start down the path of player to even npc economy is not well done in the current game but I think fits very well into the core "feel" of the game.

I would agree a shift needs to happen. We won't be able to satisfy all of those who just loved Irose for example. We also won't attract new players if we just wanted a purely "classic" as it was experience.

The new can be focused on the core that otherwise makes this game however. Like your above mentioned quote. This is a game of pvm combat for the vast majority of players, especially the new players. As this topic is focused on new, you still have to do pvm grind to get to pvp that many love. So the pvm has to be a large driving force in the game and in keeping new players.

Nice post 🙂

 

Edited by MittelDank
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I am worried that the all of the classes hold the buffs. Which was in the game before, will create a new buff slave meta. It was there for everything but dungeons, because buffs were wiped.

The obvious solution is to otherwise not make charm be the stat to buff anyone's buffs, or make it be useful for other aspects. I would lean towards the latter if we keep this around.

In any pvm outside of dungeons the meta is make classes that are pure buff slaves with max charm to buff, then you go off. I guess we can make non dungeon pvm unimportant, this ruins the vast majority of the initial time a new player spends in the game. If we don't then we also show new players that buff slaves are still alive and well and only to those which are willing to human bot the most classes to the point you want to pvm. Even more grind than a single buff slave.

This is all super tongue and cheek as I don't know how this will play out but ... level squish alone will not solve this problem. Won't stop the need for multi-client, if only to buff, and won't stop buff slave classes. In fact it will make a meta where buff slave classes are literally useless outside of buffslave unlike clerics before class buffs.

 

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1 hour ago, Kidcleric said:

we should add a rose crypto coin linked to the game to attract new players.

Rose will not have NFT, so you can forget about making another useless crypto currency, it would just make the game look suspicious and desperate.

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 2/5/2022 at 3:16 AM, Gangsta D said:

I've been thinking of this for some time. There is obviously a decent handful of players looking forward to returning to the game, its clearly evident in the Discord channel with numbers rising daily... 

THING is, how will the dev's and community push towards really growing the population of the server, especially with now, having a  bunch of some-what established private servers having a decent amount of players. What will get them to change, how will more people join besides word of mouth and what can we do to really make a really fruitful abundant community?

 

Good question. I think you need to reach out to some youtube channels, MMObyte, TheLazyPeon & so on, channels that have posted videos about the game before with alot of followers. This is a great way to expand the message of the game coming back. Its probably a good thing to do this kind of advertising when the Devs knows when the open beta/release is. 

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On 2/25/2022 at 2:16 AM, erko said:

Good question. I think you need to reach out to some youtube channels, MMObyte, TheLazyPeon & so on, channels that have posted videos about the game before with alot of followers. This is a great way to expand the message of the game coming back. Its probably a good thing to do this kind of advertising when the Devs knows when the open beta/release is. 

The Question is the new players which is what many are uncomfortable talking about.

No "hype" wins the day, i've seen this played so many times.

"Channels" do not get new long term players. Everyone despite that push always wonders why.

A new way of thinking does win the day, which the dev team has done the largest aspects of imo.

the level "squish" alone i think is so huge.

Does "youtube" channels that are only sycophats allow the game to live?
no.

People have to enjoy playing the game.
Which requires a focus on that against my or anyone's will...

I would say destroying "nerfing" does not add anything to the game. If we are going to do this then add "buff" all else. The psychology on this point is overwhelming.

 

EDIT:

Ugh... i really hate i made this post. I am clearly wrong on so many levels and just ... mean.
My bad.
I left this post up so feel free to read my posts as an overly invested... toxic individual when we are otherwise in the age of exploration and freedom for the game. Sadly everyone can learn that I won't be the only, PH 0 fan/newbie. So only go as easy on me as I have been...
(Builds A CastleGear wall) 
After all these complaints I am certain we are on so many, if not the best path... why do I complain?
Sorry and I am amazed I haven't been called out harder.

<3, Peace, and death to the krawfies....

Edited by MittelDank
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