Character Slots and Storage Expansions in Item Mall

[Sneaux]

We're nearing 2 weeks into Early Access and I can confidently say I will indeed pay money for more character slots and storage pages.

I think extra character slots are an easy convenience sell. There's no argument of pay to win as you can already have multiple accounts, even if you're limited to playing 2 at once. If you want all classes now you can already make more accounts to accomplish that. Why not offer a way to have them all on one account? Here's some notes about character slot expansions:

1. Slots are offered individually or as a pack of 4.
2. 1 Slot is 250 IM Points (around $2.50 USD)
3. 4 Slots is 800 IM Points (around $8 USD)

As for storage expansions, I know there's some controversy around these as they're bordering pay to win by some players' definitions. However, I don't feel there's any legitimate hardcore advantage to having more storage space available. Players can already make more accounts to handle extra storage needs. Why not offer a paid way to keep it all on one account? Some notes about storage expansions:

1. Pages are offered individually, as a pack of 4, or a pack of 8.
2. 1 Page is 250 IM Points (again, around $2.50 USD)
3. 4 Pages is 800 IM Points (around $8 USD)
4. 8 Pages is 1400 IM Points (around $14 USD)

You could also offer an "Account Expansion" combo pack that includes character slots and storage pages in one purchase to make it easier. Some notes about a combo pack:

1. Offered as a small pack: 2 character slots and 4 storage pages for 1000 IM Points (around $10 USD)
2. Also offered as a big pack: 4 character slots and 8 storage pages for 2000 IM Points (around $20 USD)

 

Prices are definitely placeholder, but I do feel like these prices are completely reasonable for the convenience of keeping everything on one account. Thanks for coming to my TED Talk.

Edited December 24, 2022 by Sneaux

[LoreChief]

I don't know or care about the legitimacy of the pricing you're mentioning.  I understand they are examples.

 

I completely disagree that storage space and character slots can be considered P2W.  They fundamentally are P2C (Pay-2-Convenience).  As you said there are F2P ways of accomplishing the same things.

 

I completely support the idea of having character slots and storage tabs as item mall options.  I think if I had to tweak your suggestion a bit, it would be;

1. Give everyone 2x 'Character' storage slots by default (per character, duh)
2. Make extra storage slots for Account/Character a premium price, because they have already been generous in giving us an extra character storage slot.

[Wokki]

Give the premium storage pages for a subscription, for example $10 a month. I'd happily pay this subscription.

I also agree that storage space or character slots are not p2w elements. Certain benefits for payment have to be added into the game to bring revenue at one point or another. Not a single MMO can remain fully free to play. You either choose blatant p2w or f2p with p2c. The game also cannot depend on people paying for cosmetics as their only source of revenue.

[Sneaux]

I'm also in full support of having a medium-length quest in the game to get more storage pages, as well. Perhaps Character Storage could be expanded through Questing, Premium Storage could be accessed from Premium account, and regular storage could be expanded through IM. There's definitely a solution here that works for everyone without being Pay to Win.

[DoubleRose]

I wouldn't use it, but I see the appeal and agree it is a matter of convenience. A server and dev team isn't free, so this game needs a revenue stream.

[SlothnessMonster]

So i have made a dealer and am quickly running out of room in storage maybe add more storage or a way that dealers can add more storage.

In Na rose premium acc got more storage which i am assuming wont happen in this version

 

Also 1 slot in character storage seems to little maybe 2 or 3 slots with so many things binding to character on use

Edited January 2, 2023 by SlothnessMonster

[Sumbudy]

theres 4 pages of slots. you also have account and character tabs. Personally i dont understand why people need that much storage when 90% of the stuff youll never use lol

[SlothnessMonster]

because people make artisians and need the room for crafting materials

[Sneaux]

11 hours ago, Sumbudy said:

theres 4 pages of slots. you also have account and character tabs. Personally i dont understand why people need that much storage when 90% of the stuff youll never use lol

My storage is 50% full and I sell 90% of the mats I pick up.

[Zeror]

A 2nd personal/character tab would be an idea. Maybe with using skill points as a dealer 2nd job class skill. With last tier of Backpack Mastery as requirement perhaps. I would not add a another tabs for your account.

Edited January 2, 2023 by Zeror

[rayun]

Please increase storage slots so people have enough to store items

Right now there are 4 normal and 1 character ones and its not enough.

From one side its recommended to play on 1 character, but from other side game limits even storage and forces you to make secondaryone purerly for it.

I did see there were talks about expanding it in multiple ways but nothing seems have happened yet or i missed what was it.

Would be nice if default would have at least 6-8 slots, or at least make it somehow expandable in other ways

 

This is one of easiest thing to adjust also compared to other things  

[Phish_]

in NaRose we had the option of premium storage which was 10 extra storage pages that you could access anywhere, as well as storage expansion coupons to give both your main storage and character specific storage extra windows. These were of course, item mall items and since Rednim rose is straying away from the item mall influencing things perhaps they should be offered some other way.

A few options:

• Valor Shop 
• Honor Shop
• Rare Dungeon rewards 
• An NPC that sells them for a fair amount of zulie which also will be a zulie sink (maybe 10-15m for a storage expansion coupon?)
• A 1 time quest that you can do to to gain an extra character storage tab.

 

Regardless, the ability to expand storage was a good feature and my accounts storages are already full unless I make new accounts simply to store items, which is the exact reason why it should be implemented. 

[GodOfEntity]

Anything can be argued it's "not pay to win".  If it makes the game more convenient though, it essentially has a pay to win aspect to it. 

Just make the premium storage unlock with a quest.

(imagine you have to finish the entire quest line to unlock Premium storage that you can open anywhere in the game!?) 

Prompt users upon using the storage to consider subscribing. 

Message; "While this game is free to play, storing your information is costly, please consider paying monthly at https://ko-fi.com/rednimgames?fbclid=IwAR13v9FwPsgVdFSAgl9pyiYUMZhCPYEcuodR19ATFerTMjFniGX6l1mOBDA#tier16780277533890 "

But maybe use a smaller link than that. cause wow that's long.

 

Show them monthly donation link, EVERY TIME (maybe once per logged in)  someone uses the storage. If they're subscribed, they won't get the reminder.  

Kind of like the Winzip reminder to buy winzip. 



As much as I would LOVE to pay for storage(And believe me I would) --- Anything that feels even the slightest bit pay to win, after what happened with WarpPortal ROSE. Is not a way to do things here. 

Edited March 5, 2023 by GodOfEntity

[Aryn]

5 hours ago, GodOfEntity said:

Anything can be argued it's "not pay to win".  If it makes the game more convenient though, it essentially has a pay to win aspect to it. 

Just make the premium storage unlock with a quest.

(imagine you have to finish the entire quest line to unlock Premium storage that you can open anywhere in the game!?) 

Prompt users upon using the storage to consider subscribing. 

Message; "While this game is free to play, storing your information is costly, please consider paying monthly at https://ko-fi.com/rednimgames?fbclid=IwAR13v9FwPsgVdFSAgl9pyiYUMZhCPYEcuodR19ATFerTMjFniGX6l1mOBDA#tier16780277533890 "

But maybe use a smaller link than that. cause wow that's long.

 

Show them monthly donation link, EVERY TIME (maybe once per logged in)  someone uses the storage. If they're subscribed, they won't get the reminder.  

Kind of like the Winzip reminder to buy winzip. 



As much as I would LOVE to pay for storage(And believe me I would) --- Anything that feels even the slightest bit pay to win, after what happened with WarpPortal ROSE. Is not a way to do things here. 

Pay to win and pay for convenience are two different things. Pay to win is the case where you buy something from the item mall and it increases your ingame power which is unfair to players not spending real life money. Paying for the convenience to have more storage slots/acces to storage does not directly increase your player power, it just makes things more efficiënt. Simple as that.

At some point in time the devs will have to look at their income and see if it is sufficiënt in order to keep the game running and add updates in order to increase the amount of players joining the game as well as player retention.

They have several options in order to earn money without pay to win.
1. The current model where they only release cosmetics to pay for (the income from this alone may not suffice in order to keep the game running and make healthy progress towards fixes/new content which will in turn make the game die a slow death cause there won't be player retention or many new players coming in.)

2. Enable an optional subscription model that unlocks different in game conveniences. This could be in combination with a certain amount of item mall points per month (this would create a steady income and could possibly open up more time for the team to hire more people / work full time on the game.)

3. Add certain coupons to the item mall in order to increase storage and other conveniences. (this would result in extra income which would be less steady then the subscription model, not a big fan of this).

Looking at Oldschool Runescape they started back in 2014 with a team of 4 to 5 people. At first they were fixing things but after a while they started adding content and that was when the game started to grow and they were able to put more people on the team. Now OSRS is one the most populair Oldschool MMO's around. Taking OSRS an example without making ROSE pay to play wouldn't be a bad thing IMO.

While talking about OSRS taking surveys (polls) could also be a good indicator for the team to know what to focus on when gameplay related updates are possible.

 

To add to my post about pay to win. I have been following the project from the start and I believe the devs are sincere when they want the game to succeed without pay to win. Usually pay to win games come from greedy corporation or company that wants to squeeze every single penny out of your pockets in order to make their shareholders happy. With this team this is not the case. Yes they have bought the license from gravity and they probably owe some obligation towards the company but they are independent enough to hold pay p2w from happening.

Although as I have mentioned above they will need to figure out a model that will ensure the survival and growth of the game which is hard without people supporting the game in any way. I feel like an optional subscription would be the best way to go. This would ensure a steady income for the game and the devs to grow which in my opinion with the work and effort they have put into this they deserve to be able to make a living from this as it is their passion project and as far as I have seen they are doing a great job.

Edited March 5, 2023 by Aryn

[GodOfEntity]

13 hours ago, Aryn said:

Pay to win and pay for convenience are two different things. Pay to win is the case where you buy something from the item mall and it increases your ingame power which is unfair to players not spending real life money. Paying for the convenience to have more storage slots/acces to storage does not directly increase your player power, it just makes things more efficiënt. Simple as that.

At some point in time the devs will have to look at their income and see if it is sufficiënt in order to keep the game running and add updates in order to increase the amount of players joining the game as well as player retention.

They have several options in order to earn money without pay to win.
1. The current model where they only release cosmetics to pay for (the income from this alone may not suffice in order to keep the game running and make healthy progress towards fixes/new content which will in turn make the game die a slow death cause there won't be player retention or many new players coming in.)

2. Enable an optional subscription model that unlocks different in game conveniences. This could be in combination with a certain amount of item mall points per month (this would create a steady income and could possibly open up more time for the team to hire more people / work full time on the game.)

3. Add certain coupons to the item mall in order to increase storage and other conveniences. (this would result in extra income which would be less steady then the subscription model, not a big fan of this).

Looking at Oldschool Runescape they started back in 2014 with a team of 4 to 5 people. At first they were fixing things but after a while they started adding content and that was when the game started to grow and they were able to put more people on the team. Now OSRS is one the most populair Oldschool MMO's around. Taking OSRS an example without making ROSE pay to play wouldn't be a bad thing IMO.

While talking about OSRS taking surveys (polls) could also be a good indicator for the team to know what to focus on when gameplay related updates are possible.

 

To add to my post about pay to win. I have been following the project from the start and I believe the devs are sincere when they want the game to succeed without pay to win. Usually pay to win games come from greedy corporation or company that wants to squeeze every single penny out of your pockets in order to make their shareholders happy. With this team this is not the case. Yes they have bought the license from gravity and they probably owe some obligation towards the company but they are independent enough to hold pay p2w from happening.

Although as I have mentioned above they will need to figure out a model that will ensure the survival and growth of the game which is hard without people supporting the game in any way. I feel like an optional subscription would be the best way to go. This would ensure a steady income for the game and the devs to grow which in my opinion with the work and effort they have put into this they deserve to be able to make a living from this as it is their passion project and as far as I have seen they are doing a great job.

Having to create multiple accounts because you need more storage space is, beyond an inconvenience. It's game breaking. It's not fun. Forcing people to spend money so that they can store items in a game based souly on farming. 

 

Personally, I'm willing to spend the money if they gave it to us for free, as a donation. But if they make everyone pay, it'll just show the path the game is going on. 

 

Item mall skills aren't pay to win, because they can be traded. 

 

Let's convince ourselves what isn't pay to win so that we can have convenience! ...

Edited March 6, 2023 by GodOfEntity

[Aryn]

8 hours ago, GodOfEntity said:

Having to create multiple accounts because you need more storage space is, beyond an inconvenience. It's game breaking. It's not fun. Forcing people to spend money so that they can store items in a game based souly on farming. 

 

Personally, I'm willing to spend the money if they gave it to us for free, as a donation. But if they make everyone pay, it'll just show the path the game is going on. 

 

Item mall skills aren't pay to win, because they can be traded. 

 

Let's convince ourselves what isn't pay to win so that we can have convenience! ...

With your logic everything should be free and there won't be a path for the game to go on cause there won't be a game published in the long run. You need to be realistic about the future and survival of the game. You still don't don't grasp there is a difference between p2w and pay for convenience, no point in trying to discuss the matter if you won't try to understand the difference.

And honestly about storage it is not like we don't have any storage available, the extra storage coming from a quest, optional subscription or item mall would be a convenience and not a necessity.

[Bobbity]

I support renting storage every week/month. It'd take many changes before having 4-10 additional storage tabs could become a gamebreaking ingame advantage rather than a mere convenience. This is one way of supporting the server - there are others.

PvP freaks would definitely pay for ingame analytics of gameplay such as damage breakdowns after death: who killed you, using what skills, doing what amount of damage of what type etc - as well as suggested guides based on your current group lineup vs the enemy lineup. Party leaders would pay for full data on members, such as quest status and coordinates. Clan leaders would pay for logon, uptime and CP analytics. They'd want additional clan management features like records of infractions and disciplinary measures, control over shared storage and so on. Min-maxing players would pay for a full simulation/build planner where they can plan their skill tree with items (with current market prices shown) such as armor, weapons, gems, unique skill books; something that shows realtime combat stats similar to Path of Building. 

Some of these features dangerously skirt the line between convenience and p2w. Some cross it. I reckon the decision to implement lies with the devs but it should be taken after consultation with the community.